£85m train link between Manchester Piccadilly and Victoria stations approved

[WestCoast]

Some good news..

£85m train link between Piccadilly and Victoria stations set for go ahead

March 22, 2011

Chancellor George Osborne is tipped to back plans for a curved section of track at Ordsall in Salford in his budget speech tomorrow.

Manchester's two main train stations are set to be joined by an £85m direct train link.

The MEN understands Piccadilly and Victoria could be linked by a new section of track as part of a plan to slash journey times and boost economic growth.

It comes more than 30 years after a proposed underground link between the two stations - the so-called 'Picc-Vic line' - was abandoned because of costs.

The move would help uncork a massive bottleneck on the rail network around Manchester, known as the Northern Hub.

Sources say it will cut journey times between Manchester and Leeds by 14 minutes. Average journey times in the region will be cut by 30 minutes.

The link could open in 2016. It is understood the project will be funded through savings made by the Department for Transport.

The rail network around Manchester is already heavily congested and is tipped to deal with an extra 3.5m passengers a year.

There is too little track space and a lack of places for faster trains to overtake slower services. Tangled lines at junctions and on the approach to stations also cause delays.

But rail travel in Greater Manchester has jumped 82 per cent over the last decade and a report by rail bosses last year said investment in the hub was now vital for future economic prosperity of the north.

Network Rail's blueprint for the hub said £530m needed to be spent on a range of improvements - including the Ordsall curve - that it said would help provide an extra 700 train services through the region each day.

It said millions could also be spent on restoring Victoria to its former glory, building two new through platforms at Piccadilly and another one at Manchester airport under its plan to boost passenger and freight services to towns across Greater Manchester and beyond.

Transport secretary Philip Hammond is set to make a decision on the full Network Rail proposals in July next year.

Greater Manchester's transport chiefs are likely to welcome the expected announcement. They have been lobbying hard for investment in the region's rail network.

Coun Keith Whitmore, GMITA's vice-chairman, hailed Network Rail's plans last year as “of huge economic benefit”.

Mr Osborne announced his backing for the £200m electrification of rail lines in the north west in his spending review last October.

But the MEN told in November how Greater Manchester will get just a handful of extra carriages promised by the government to ease chronic overcrowding on the nation's railways.

The entire north of England has been earmarked to get just 100 of the 1,850 carriages that will be added to the network between now and 2019.

The government withdrew £5m that was due to go towards the revamp of Victoria station in spending cuts last year.

Business leaders were told by Transport Minister Theresa Villiers earlier this week a new high-speed rail network would provide jobs and prosperity for Manchester and the North West.

She warned that not introducing the government's plans for 250mph bullet trains to cut journey times between Manchester and London would increase the north-south divide.

 

[merlodlliw]

why not as all govt budget stories are leaked now. If you have the trains people will use them.


Bob

 

[The Planner]

Not suprising as the whole "Northern Hub" idea relies on it on the whole.

 

[gordonthemoron]

sounds good, but how much of a bottleneck are Oxford Road & Deansgate?

 

[tbtc]

Good news.

But 85m?

And "Average journey times in the region will be cut by 30 minutes"? Since a lot of journeys are going to be little over half an hour (Manchester - Stockport/ Glossop/ Rochdale/ Bolton/ Warrington etc) I think that's a porkie!

 

[gordonthemoron]

but the key word there is average, tbtc

 

[premier01]

but the key word there is average, tbtc

I'm not sure about the reduced journey times from Leeds-most services call at Piccadilly and if that's the station u want to go to then why would u go to Victoria first-have to say there have been several times where I have wanted to get to Piccadilly in order to get back to Preston from somewhere like Yorkshire so would welcome the link.

 

[cckhkhkhlk]

Am I missing something but doesn't this service already exist? Metrolink allows you to travel through the city zone between piccadilly, deansgate and victoria. Seems a waste of money

 

[gareth taylor]

Am I missing something but doesn't this service already exist? Metrolink allows you to travel through the city zone between piccadilly, deansgate and victoria. Seems a waste of money

I agree with you on that.

 

[Welshman]

I'm not sure about the reduced journey times from Leeds-most services call at Piccadilly and if that's the station u want to go to then why would u go to Victoria first-have to say there have been several times where I have wanted to get to Piccadilly in order to get back to Preston from somewhere like Yorkshire so would welcome the link.

I, too, am at a loss to understand how routing trains from Piccadilly through Oxford Rd, Deansgate, this new curve, Salford and Victoria, and then to Leeds [via Stalybridge or the Calder Valley] can reduce the journey time by 14 minutes!

 

[PhilipW]

Am I missing something but doesn't this service already exist? Metrolink allows you to travel through the city zone between piccadilly, deansgate and victoria. Seems a waste of money

... but it doesn't give you through journies from the NE of the city and the north Pennine routes to the south of the city, including the airport

 

[gordonthemoron]

actually, is this project likely to cause the closure of Deansgate or at least a reduction in trains calling there?

 

[Blindtraveler]

why dont they ask the punters what they want 85m spent on? I agree aöther platform or aj pic and vic wouldnt be a bad ifa but as the general view here is that its aj porkies anyway, then as i say, consult the public!

I, too, am at a loss to understand how routing trains from Piccadilly through Oxford Rd, Deansgate, this new curve, Salford and Victoria, and then to Leeds [via Stalybridge or the Calder Valley] can reduce the journey time by 14 minutes!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I, too, am at a loss to understand how routing trains from Piccadilly through Oxford Rd, Deansgate, this new curve, Salford and Victoria, and then to Leeds [via Stalybridge or the Calder Valley] can reduce the journey time by 14 minutes!

I think they mean Manchester Airport-Leeds times will come down by 14 minutes, as they won't have to take the slow route via Guide Bridge and reverse at Piccadilly.

Still leaves many questions unanswered though. A delta junction at Ordsall Lane will be hard to manage and will create its own congestion.

Probably helps the case for the upgrade of Victoria and electrification eastwards.

 

[PhilipW]

With this scheme creating two new junctions, Castlefield N and Castlefield S (or whatever they are to be called), which will be very close to the existing junctions of Ordsall Lane and Windsor Link (or whatever it is called), I would have thought that there was a good case for some flyovers being created instead of flat junctions.

I don't know what the Northern Hub document has to say on this matter.

Four flat junctions close together would seem to be a "delay creation" scheme.

 

[Welshman]

I think they mean Manchester Airport-Leeds times will come down by 14 minutes, as they won't have to take the slow route via Guide Bridge and reverse at Piccadilly.

Sorry to labour my point, but Victoria-Stalybridge via Ashton-under-Lyne and Piccadilly-Stalybridge via Guide Bridge both currently take about 13 minutes, so there's no overall difference in times to Leeds from either Victoria or Piccadilly. So journey times from the Airport to Leeds via Piccadilly, Victoria and Stalybridge will be increased by the time needed to traverse the proposed new link, which I suspect will be longer than the time currently allowed to reverse at Piccadilly.

It would be an advantage from the operating angle, as the need to reverse in Piccadilly and cross the running lines outside will be removed. But it will hardly reduce the overall journey by up to 14 minutes!

 

[gordonthemoron]

I regularly use Man Airport-Leeds and the train is invariably held at Ardwick due to waiting for a platform, will this scheme alleviate this?

 

[PhilipW]

I regularly use Man Airport-Leeds and the train is invariably held at Ardwick due to waiting for a platform, will this scheme alleviate this?

Yes, as long as there is capacity on Platforms 13-14 (the through ones)

 

[WatcherZero]

The time benefit isnt from speed improvements really, its from allowing through services so the passenger doesnt have to change to get to his final destination.

 

[Leslie Fletcher]

I don't know what the Northern Hub document has to say on this matter.

It says here that

"• Building a brand new section of railway at Ordsall, in Salford. This will mean that:

- Trains between Manchester Airport and Leeds, Newcastle, Bradford, Rochdale and elsewhere across the North will not need to reverse at Manchester Piccadilly

- Trains will be able to stop at all three of the main central Manchester stations: Piccadilly, Oxford Road and Victoria

- New rail connections will be made possible, for example between Bradford, Halifax and the Calder Valley and Manchester Airport"

 

[tbtc]

but the key word there is average, tbtc

There will be some quicker journeys, sure, but can anyone think of any single journey that will be half an hour faster? Because to claim that the *average* journey saving will be thirty minutes seems disengenuous to me (you certainly won't take half an hour of Leeds - Manchester, for example)

Good news, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure whether the cost and hype are proportionate

 

[Mcr Warrior]

- Trains between Manchester Airport and ...Rochdale and elsewhere across the North will not need to reverse at Manchester Piccadilly

:roll: Are there any (direct) trains between Manchester Airport and Rochdale at present?

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Pretty sure there isnt any...

 

[radamfi]

:roll: Are there any (direct) trains between Manchester Airport and Rochdale at present?

The nearest thing you get is when fTPE are diverted over the Calder Valley and turn around at Salford Crescent, but they don't stop at Rochdale, they just go through without stopping.

 

[trickyvegas]

The nearest thing you get is when fTPE are diverted over the Calder Valley and turn around at Salford Crescent, but they don't stop at Rochdale, they just go through without stopping.

I'm pretty sure the 23.35 weekday service from Leeds to the airport takes this route.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'm pretty sure the 23.35 weekday service from Leeds to the airport takes this route.

Seems to have calling points at Dewsbury and Huddersfield then Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[pemma]

- Trains between Manchester Airport and Leeds, Newcastle, Bradford, Rochdale and elsewhere across the North will not need to reverse at Manchester Piccadilly
- New rail connections will be made possible, for example between Bradford, Halifax and the Calder Valley and Manchester Airport"

Either these two should be the same point or DfT don't realise that TPE serve Huddersfield not Bradford.

 

[WatcherZero]

Just announced in the budget by the Chancellor as an £85m scheme to allow Liverpool-Leeds direct trains. On the plus side this is a third of the cost of the Northern Hub now being paid by the Dft which means Network Rail has to find less in the next regulatory period.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Network rail now saying the chord will be completed 'as early as 2016' so probably still a long way from starting then.

 

[trickyvegas]

Seems to have calling points at Dewsbury and Huddersfield then Manchester Piccadilly.

I may be wrong in that case.

 

[pemma]

I may be wrong in that case.

TPE services have to serve Huddersfield or they have to run a replacement bus service so if any service is scheduled to run on Calder Vale, which is possible to ensure that drivers know the alternative routes, it would be either Piccadilly-Victoria-Brighouse-Huddersfield-Leeds OR Piccadilly-Huddersfield-Brighouse-Leeds.