ÖBB orders double decker railjet

[Stephen Lee]

Does it mean that more traditional intercity stock will be retired or it’s just to boost the railjet fleet and free-up traditional railjet sets for international services???

ÖBB awards €600m contract to Stadler for double-deck Railjet and Cityjet trains

ÖBB has ordered 14 six-car double-deck Railjet EMUs for inter-city services and 21 four-car Cityjet EMUs for local services from Stadler.

www.railjournal.com

 

[Mike395]

Does it mean that more traditional intercity stock will be retired or it’s just to boost the railjet fleet and free-up traditional railjet sets for international services???

ÖBB awards €600m contract to Stadler for double-deck Railjet and Cityjet trains

ÖBB has ordered 14 six-car double-deck Railjet EMUs for inter-city services and 21 four-car Cityjet EMUs for local services from Stadler.

www.railjournal.com

The latter I believe - not aware of any plans to retire the current fleet.

 

[dutchflyer]

Read somewhere-likely some german forum, that OeBB expects at least double demand i the upcoming 10-12 yrs-also due to the cheap General ABO (though not even as cheap as the one in DE=-Germany, but thats not for IC). So they need more stock.
That oldest stock will get to the scrapyard and new stock comes in is natural and an ongoing process, with some ups and downs in the economic cycle.

 

[Snow1964]

Does it mean that more traditional intercity stock will be retired or it’s just to boost the railjet fleet and free-up traditional railjet sets for international services???

ÖBB awards €600m contract to Stadler for double-deck Railjet and Cityjet trains

ÖBB has ordered 14 six-car double-deck Railjet EMUs for inter-city services and 21 four-car Cityjet EMUs for local services from Stadler.

www.railjournal.com

They are not all intercity stock

14 are 6car for long distance services (about 480 seats in 1st & 2nd class), 21 sets are 4car for local services (about 380 seats)

This takes it to 76 sets out of framework agreement for upto 186 sets

https://www.stadlerrail.com/en/media/article/more-capacity-in-local-and-long-distance-transport-oebb-orders-another-35-new-double-decker-multiple-units-from-stadler/1440/#:~:text=Today%20%C3%96BB%20and%20Stadler%20signed,KISS%20vehicles%20for%20local%20transport.

The Austrians are doing similar to Italy and France, huge framework agreements and calling off mechanically identical orders fitted out as required, unlike UK Operators who seem to each prefer a unique design which often doesn't then work properly, and being in tiny batches often costs more.

 

[duesselmartin]

I assume the traditional Eurofima stock will be sold with the gen2 RJ stock?

 

[Stephen Lee]

I assume the traditional Eurofima stock will be sold with the gen2 RJ stock?

Maybe

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jul 2023 ==

They are not all intercity stock

14 are 6car for long distance services (about 480 seats in 1st & 2nd class), 21 sets are 4car for local services (about 380 seats)

This takes it to 76 sets out of framework agreement for upto 186 sets

https://www.stadlerrail.com/en/media/article/more-capacity-in-local-and-long-distance-transport-oebb-orders-another-35-new-double-decker-multiple-units-from-stadler/1440/#:~:text=Today%20%C3%96BB%20and%20Stadler%20signed,KISS%20vehicles%20for%20local%20transport.

The Austrians are doing similar to Italy and France, huge framework agreements and calling off mechanically identical orders fitted out as required, unlike UK Operators who seem to each prefer a unique design which often doesn't then work properly, and being in tiny batches often costs more.

I remembered that ÖBB still has a framework of up to 700 coaches ranging from nightjet to railjet. ÖBB ordered 33 7-car night trains(231 coaches) and 8 9-car day trains(72 coaches), and ÖBB can order 397 more coaches

 

[StephenHunter]

I assume the traditional Eurofima stock will be sold with the gen2 RJ stock?

The Eurofima stuff probably - and I can see that being snapped up by open access operators, because their sliding doors make them more PRM-TSI compliant than Corail or UIC-X/Y/Z types.

 

[Austriantrain]

I assume the traditional Eurofima stock will be sold with the gen2 RJ stock?

I hope not. ÖBB are desperately short on long-distance rolling stock and will need more once the Semmering and Koralm lines are open. Trains are often full to bursting and Long-distance stock is routinely replaced by commuter trains on some services.

For the moment, once the new RJ2 sets are in service on the Brenner, the RIC cars will replace German IC trains on the Munich - Graz line and probably will be used to strengthen services elsewhere and/or run extra trains.

The new Double-deck Stadler KISS trains will replace RJ1 sets on the slow Wien - Salzburg service, which is really an Interregio used by lots of commuters. The RJ1 sets will then move to the Südbahn and there is talk of another small order of RJ2, also for Südbahn (where double-deck stock cannot run until the Semmering tunnel opens, hopefully in 2030).

 

[Stephen Lee]

I hope not. ÖBB are desperately short on long-distance rolling stock and will need more once the Semmering and Koralm lines are open. Trains are often full to bursting and Long-distance stock is routinely replaced by commuter trains on some services.

For the moment, once the new RJ2 sets are in service on the Brenner, the RIC cars will replace German IC trains on the Munich - Graz line and probably will be used to strengthen services elsewhere and/or run extra trains.

The new Double-deck Stadler KISS trains will replace RJ1 sets on the slow Wien - Salzburg service, which is really an Interregio used by lots of commuters. The RJ1 sets will then move to the Südbahn and there is talk of another small order of RJ2, also for Südbahn (where double-deck stock cannot run until the Semmering tunnel opens, hopefully in 2030).

What about Munich-Klagenfurt?

 

[Austriantrain]

What about Munich-Klagenfurt?

ICE4 on those trains that currently use DB IC sets.

 

[Stephen Lee]

I assume the traditional Eurofima stock will be sold with the gen2 RJ stock?

Gen2 RJ stock?

 

[Austriantrain]

I remembered that ÖBB still has a framework of up to 700 coaches ranging from nightjet to railjet. ÖBB ordered 33 7-car night trains(231 coaches) and 8 9-car day trains(72 coaches), and ÖBB can order 397 more coaches

As I stated above, ÖBB will be probably order another 12 RJ2 sets für Südbahn services, but that has not been confirmed yet. It was originally to be 20, but it was decided to invest in long-distance KISS instead. I highly doubt more RJ2 sets will be ordered- the days of ordering Siemens Viaggio for ÖBB day services are probably over; I suspect the next generation will be EMUs. As to NJ, it might depend on the success of the sets currently on order, but I wouldn’t hold my breath on more than the current 33 sets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2023 ==

Gen2 RJ stock?

The new railjet sets currently in delivery.

 

[duesselmartin]

Generation 2 RailJet sets.

 

[DanNCL]

the RIC cars will replace German IC trains on the Munich - Graz line and probably will be used to strengthen services elsewhere and/or run extra trains.

Are the EC services to be split at München Hbf when this change happens or will the ÖBB locos and stock be running through to places such as Saarbrücken?

 

[Austriantrain]

Are the EC services to be split at München Hbf when this change happens or will the ÖBB locos and stock be running through to places such as Saarbrücken?

They will run through AFAIK.

 

[StephenHunter]

They will run through AFAIK.

They need to reverse there, which an EMU makes easier. As does a Railjet rake.

 

[43 302]

What is the difference between RJ1 & RJ2 please?

 

[Austriantrain]

They need to reverse there, which an EMU makes easier. As does a Railjet rake.

They will probably be top-and-tailed. There is just no alternative available. DB IC1 sets are literally falling apart and there is no new stock available yet.

 

[StephenHunter]

What is the difference between RJ1 & RJ2 please?

Believe RJ1 is a Taurus-hauled set with a driving trailer of that style and RJ2 is Vectron-based.

 

[Austriantrain]

Believe RJ1 is a Taurus-hauled set with a driving trailer of that style and RJ2 is Vectron-based.

No, nothing to do with traction itself. However you are right insofar as the RJ2 does have Vectron-styled fronts (because the original front wouldn’t conform to current crashwortiness standards).

Apart from that, it is simply the latest iteration of the Siemens Viaggio - in the RJ2 case with low-floor coaches. And 9 cars, but this is just ÖBBs individual decision; Siemens would happily build 7- or 10-car sets.

In Siemens speech, they are called DANI sets (day-night, because the new NJ are basically the same). The name RJ2 is purely unofficial.

 

[andersj]

Railjet 1 are Siemens Viaggio Comfort coaches while Railjet 2 are Siemens Viaggio Next Level coaches with partial low floor.

ÖBB is the first and only customer for the Next Level coaches, which where ordered in 2018.

 

[43 302]

Ah so RJ2 are not yet in service. Thanks for the replies.

 

[43096]

ÖBB is the first and only customer for the Next Level coaches, which where ordered in 2018.

Are the 20 x 9-car sets ordered by ČD not of that configuration?

 

[Austriantrain]

Are the 20 x 9-car sets ordered by ČD not of that configuration?

ČD did not order the low-floor variant.

 

[Stephen Lee]

ICE4 on those trains that currently use DB IC sets.

Why don’t they use ICE-4 to run on the Graz route

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2023 ==

I hope not. ÖBB are desperately short on long-distance rolling stock and will need more once the Semmering and Koralm lines are open. Trains are often full to bursting and Long-distance stock is routinely replaced by commuter trains on some services.

For the moment, once the new RJ2 sets are in service on the Brenner, the RIC cars will replace German IC trains on the Munich - Graz line and probably will be used to strengthen services elsewhere and/or run extra trains.

The new Double-deck Stadler KISS trains will replace RJ1 sets on the slow Wien - Salzburg service, which is really an Interregio used by lots of commuters. The RJ1 sets will then move to the Südbahn and there is talk of another small order of RJ2, also for Südbahn (where double-deck stock cannot run until the Semmering tunnel opens, hopefully in 2030).

Correct, ÖBB is short on both day and night long distance rolling stocks. However, I wondered if there are any nightjet/international service expansion plans to be implemented

 

[duesselmartin]

it seems NightJet lack stock for existing services. Hardly anything on the Amsterdam-Zürich service nowadays.

 

[Stephen Lee]

it seems NightJet lack stock for existing services. Hardly anything on the Amsterdam-Zürich service nowadays.

When will the new nightjet sets be finally put into service……

 

[Austriantrain]

When will the new nightjet sets be finally put into service……

Towards the end of the year, is the official line, but nobody seems to be sure.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2023 ==

Why don’t they use ICE-4 to run on the Graz route

Several stations with low platforms, including one that still has earth platforms. Also, these services will disappear from 2026.

 

[Stephen Lee]

Towards the end of the year, is the official line, but nobody seems to be sure.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jul 2023 ==



Several stations with low platforms, including one that still has earth platforms. Also, these services will disappear from 2026.

why the service are going to disappear?

 

[Austriantrain]

why the service are going to disappear?

With the opening of the Koralmbahn in December 2025, international long-distance traffic will switch to a Salzburg- Villach - Graz (-Vienna) route. The Ennstal line, through which the trains currently run, will get an Interregio service with EMUs.