00 Gauge, Class 110 DMU Grinding query

[STEVIEBOY1]

Good afternoon, I bought, a couple of years ago, a 2nd hand 00 Gauge, Class 110 DMU 3 car green unit. I don't know when it was originally made, it was in very good condition and ran well. In recent months however, it has started to run erratically, a bit jerky to start with, then in the past couple of weeks, it makes a "Grinding" sound, I have cleaned the tracks and wheels and had a look at the motor and it all looks ok. Has anyone else come across this type of problem and were you able to cure the problem? Many thanks, Steve.

 

[Cowley]

Good afternoon, I bought, a couple of years ago, a 2nd hand 00 Gauge, Class 110 DMU 3 car green unit. I don't know when it was originally made, it was in very good condition and ran well. In recent months however, it has started to run erratically, a bit jerky to start with, then in the past couple of weeks, it makes a "Grinding" sound, I have cleaned the tracks and wheels and had a look at the motor and it all looks ok. Has anyone else come across this type of problem and were you able to cure the problem? Many thanks, Steve.

Hm. I’m assuming it’s got the old Hornby Ringfield motor in it Steve?
Try popping the motor out of the chassis first, just to check that there isn’t a bit of grit stuck in amongst the gear wheels.
If it isn’t that and you’re not too hamfisted then very carefully prise the metal tabs that hold the springs and brushes open and check them (lay the motor on its side and be very careful not to lose the springs as they can ping off easily, perhaps do this on a white tray so that you don’t lose anything, a cocktail stick can be useful for putting them back in), it may be that one of the brushes has worn down and got wedged against the armature.
I’ve had that happen before.
Does the grinding sound like motor noise or something to do with the gearing do you think?

 

[pdeaves]

Is the noise all the time, or just on a particular curve? I have had motors where, on a curve, a gear wheel comes into contact with the body; probably through wear and not sitting quite straight on its axle.

 

[trainmania100]

If you find that it runs well at slower speeds, but when you speed up it squeels and occasionally slows then speeds up again, you can fix this by adding a little 3-in-1 or similar, to the armature pole, on the side opposite the face with gears. A little oil on the gears won't hurt, but your problem is likely the hole on the opposite side. Lubricating that seemed to solve my squeel problem with my ringfield HST.
I wouldn't recommend oiling the gears, because if it's got traction tyres that's the last thing you want the oil spraying off onto at full speed.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Thank you for the replies, I did get the motor out of the chassis but could not see any grit or anything, I'll try the 3-in-1 with care. The noise occurs on all parts of the track, curves and long straights and the DMU does speed up and slow down too. I will let you know how I get on.

 

[SCH117X]

A spot of oil on the motor spindle where it emerges from the casing often does the trick with grinding noises on these motors. 3 in 1 is a penetrating oil so will find its way where it typically will find it way were it was not supposed to be - an appropriate modelling oil would be better
Whatever you use always ensure it is safe with plastic

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

A spot of oil on the motor spindle where it emerges from the casing often does the trick with grinding noises on these motors. 3 in 1 is a penetrating oil so will find its way where it typically will find it way were it was not supposed to be - an appropriate modelling oil would be better
Whatever you use always ensure it is safe with plastic

The oil has worked to a certain extent, the grinding noise has stopped, but it is still quite erratic, I think it is the motor itself, there also seems to be a partly burned small flat capacitor which may have something to do with the erractic/jerky running. I will see if I can find a motor for sale, think an online auction site may have some.

 

[SCH117X]

The capacitor is solely for interference suppression purposes, if it looks like its damaged remove it and test to see if the performance improves. If that resolves the situation get a new .01mf capacitor.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

The capacitor is solely for interference suppression purposes, if it looks like its damaged remove it and test to see if the performance improves. If that resolves the situation get a new .01mf capacitor.

OK, thank you for that tip.

 

[Peter C]

I have an old Class 110 DMU from Tri-ang (probably the one which you have). I run it on standard DC power and nothing has been changed about it. However, mine also makes a grinding noise. Having watched a video from Lakeside Model Railway (a very good channel if you haven't heard of it before), the wheels, which have small grooves in them, may be the issue.
How this is the case, I don't know. If you are at all prepared to do so, I would recommend looking up some wheels (of a more modern style, e.g. smaller flanges, no grooves, etc.) which would work. They need to have the gears on them (I think).

If any of what I've said here, please let me know because I don't want to keep going around telling people rubbish!

-Peter

 

[pdeaves]

the wheels, which have small grooves in them, may be the issue.
How this is the case, I don't know.

Do you mean "How do the wheels have grooves"? If the grooves are perpendicular to the track that would be an early attempt at improving grip between train and track.

 

[Peter C]

Do you mean "How do the wheels have grooves"? If the grooves are perpendicular to the track that would be an early attempt at improving grip between train and track.

No. I said that the grooves in the wheels may be the issue.


EDIT: I also said that I wasn't sure why the grooves could be causing the grinding.
-Peter

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I have now obtained a shiny new motor/bogie, but I am now having a problem getting the old one out of the motor/bogie frame. I found an internet clip with a chap showing how to push the plastic tab back with a small screw driver and pushing up the lug, but mine will only move slightly, I don't want to force it, in case I break it. Does anyone have any suggestions. ? thanks again.

 

[SCH117X]

Have a look at the service sheet https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/servicesheets/index/download/id/55/
You need to release part 8 from part 3 which is held in place by four clip fitted prongs -use a suitable item to hold them back like a chopped up credit or store card

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Have a look at the service sheet https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/servicesheets/index/download/id/55/
You need to release part 8 from part 3 which is held in place by four clip fitted prongs -use a suitable item to hold them back like a chopped up credit or store card

Many thanks for this info/link. I think infact, it is part 8 and part 5 that I need to separate and put in the new part 5, drive unit.

 

[Peter C]

I have now obtained a shiny new motor/bogie, but I am now having a problem getting the old one out of the motor/bogie frame. I found an internet clip with a chap showing how to push the plastic tab back with a small screw driver and pushing up the lug, but mine will only move slightly, I don't want to force it, in case I break it. Does anyone have any suggestions. ? thanks again.

Is this video which you have found by chambs123? If not, I reccomend watching his video. From memory, it covers this in some detail.

Hope this helps,

-Peter


EDIT: I've looked around on YouTube and I can't find the video from Chambs123. Apologies.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Is this video which you have found by chambs123? If not, I reccomend watching his video. From memory, it covers this in some detail.

Hope this helps,

-Peter


EDIT: I've looked around on YouTube and I can't find the video from Chambs123. Apologies.

I think it was called Sam's models or similar, not Chambs123. I have still not been able to get the old motor out. I am staying at a mate's next week who is better at this sort of thing that I am and will ask him if he can try. Otherwise I shall try a model shop in Tooting who have a very good service/repair section.

 

[Peter C]

I think it was called Sam's models or similar, not Chambs123. I have still not been able to get the old motor out. I am staying at a mate's next week who is better at this sort of thing that I am and will ask him if he can try. Otherwise I shall try a model shop in Tooting who have a very good service/repair section.

Oh OK. I'll do some more research and try and find some YouTube videos which may help in the removal of the motor.

-Peter

EDIT: I've found the Chambs123 video. It details how to take the whole motor bogie apart:

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Ok, thanks, I shall have a look later.

 

[Peter C]

Ok, thanks, I shall have a look later.

You're welcome. I hope that it helps you with what you need to do.

-Peter

 

[Cowley]

Ok, thanks, I shall have a look later.

Could you post a photo of your motor when you get a minute Steve?

 

[SCH117X]

Oh OK. I'll do some more research and try and find some YouTube videos which may help in the removal of the motor.

-Peter

EDIT: I've found the Chambs123 video. It details how to take the whole motor bogie apart:

That's a completely different motor bogie - I suggested removing part 3 from 8 as that will release the whole motor bogie and then it should be easier to remove 5 from 8 than with it fitted to 3

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

That's a completely different motor bogie - I suggested removing part 3 from 8 as that will release the whole motor bogie and then it should be easier to remove 5 from 8 than with it fitted to 3

Oh, Ok, I see what you mean. Thanks.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Could you post a photo of your motor when you get a minute Steve?

I shall try to so over the weekend.

 

[Peter C]

That's a completely different motor bogie - I suggested removing part 3 from 8 as that will release the whole motor bogie and then it should be easier to remove 5 from 8 than with it fitted to 3

Apologies. I thought that STEVIEBOY1 was having issues with taking the original motor bogie apart.

-Peter

 

[Peter C]

Here we go; this website should help.
http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Hall_Royd_Model/layout_52.html

-Peter

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Could you post a photo of your motor when you get a minute Steve?

Hi This is the first time that I have tried to post a photo, apologies, if it is not correct. Hope you can see enough either on thumbnail or full size.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Here we go; this website should help.
http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Hall_Royd_Model/layout_52.html

-Peter

Thank you Peter C.

 

[Peter C]

Thank you Peter C.

You're very welcome.

-Peter

 

[Cowley]

View attachment 61447 View attachment 61447 View attachment 61448 Hi This is the first time that I have tried to post a photo, apologies, if it is not correct. Hope you can see enough either on thumbnail or full size.

That brings back memories!
Those motors compared to modern ones are like comparing a Morris Marina with a modern day Audi A4...
Good in some ways though as you wouldn’t even attempt to fiddle with stuff under the bonnet of an A4 (mainly because you wouldn’t have to), but a Marina is simple and you can see what everything does.
The old Hornby motor comes apart quite easily, but I still think you need to check the easiest stuff first - namely the lead brushes that rub against the commutator (I hope that this is the correct terminology).
Lift the two silver tabs up on the side of the motor that doesn’t have the brass gear wheel on it, and be careful not to lose the little springs behind the tabs that push the brushes onto the commutator (again do this on a tray or something similar to keep the parts in one place. Use a cocktail stick for the springs).
If the brushes are this shape:

Then they’re fine.
But if they’re this shape and are getting wedged between the casing and the commutator:

(Sorry about the poor quality drawing) Then they’ll need to be replaced.
The reason I’m suggesting looking at this first is that it’s always best to check the simpler consumable parts first before stripping the whole thing down.
Have a look at this first, and if it isn’t that (again, post photos of what you find, because it might help us work out what’s what), then we can look into it a bit deeper.
I’ve repaired plenty of these motors over the years, and it’s usually something fairly simple that’s easily fixable.
I had a pair of permanently coupled class 25s for a while that had three of these motors between the two locos. I through wired them so that they didn’t stall over points and they ran like an absolute treat.
A spray can of switch cleaner always helped mind - Available for a few quid at Toolstation (other local DIY wholesalers are available).
Don’t be frightened to have a go at fixing it though.
It helps to have a few spares in a box and to be able to swap bits around until you get it working properly though sometimes...