1746 - London Euston - Crewe 214% over capacity (news 25-7-19)

[800002]

So today's Metro (yes, I know - but can't find it else where yet) gives the 1746 West Midlands Trains service from London Euston to Crewe - a.k.a. 1U45 - as the 'most crowded' service in the country last autumn. 214% Over Capacity.
Source: https://www.metro.news/most-crowded-train-was-214-over-capacity/1649474/

Now I can see its got form, albeit as the 1646 (midland) Euston - Crewe in 2014 (BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29142300 )

Now: what it doesn't say..
What is the WTT diagramming of the 1746 (not mentioned)
What is the standard seating capacity of said diagram?
What is the accepted number of possible standees per coach? (I'm guessing something in the manufacturing documentation could give this??)

In 2014, the number of pasengers sitting was given as 206; standing was given as 229. - meaning 111% over capacity.


Over capacity having the implied meaning that there is a set number of passengers the train can carry. As opposed to simply over subscribed, which you can't really specify as a percentage (unless you have a max capacity figure - meaning you can use the words 'over capacity').

Brilliant journalism, as always...

Anyone able to shed some light on this?

 

[causton]

WMT internally knew this was coming for a while - and the reporting and methodology is very flawed - never mind the fact a new timetable has been introduced since then so it is no longer true!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was I think a 4-car set (nowhere sensible to drop off 4 along the way, and until the wobble came out only 4 possible on Trent Valley services). To be honest it needed a "u" at Milton Keynes Central, there are plenty of other trains you can use to get there, most of which are hardly any slower. It'd still be busy then, but there is no sense in cramming it full of commuters.

There are no other peak 4-car sets on LNR.

 

[800002]

WMT internally knew this was coming for a while - and the reporting and methodology is very flawed - never mind the fact a new timetable has been introduced since then so it is no longer true!

That's not a surprise - possibly why it's only in the metro??

Not withstanding - it was true at the time.
Allbeit, it's fairly difficult at this point in time to see the specific details of what went into the analysis.

 

[87015]

WMT internally knew this was coming for a while - and the reporting and methodology is very flawed - never mind the fact a new timetable has been introduced since then so it is no longer true!

You mean when they reduced it from 12 to 8?

 

[87015]

It was I think a 4-car set (nowhere sensible to drop off 4 along the way, and until the wobble came out only 4 possible on Trent Valley services). To be honest it needed a "u" at Milton Keynes Central, there are plenty of other trains you can use to get there, most of which are hardly any slower. It'd still be busy then, but there is no sense in cramming it full of commuters.

There are no other peak 4-car sets on LNR.

What spare capacity on other trains?! You are not allowed on the Pendos that have it!

 

[Bletchleyite]

What spare capacity on other trains?! You are not allowed on the Pendos that have it!

There are a number of peak 12-car sets of various speeds that will take you to MKC in between 40 and 55ish minutes, on some of which you'll get a bay of 6 to yourself if you go all the way to the front, let alone a seat.

Commuters ramming themselves into 4-car sets have only themselves to blame. I have a near 100% record of a seat on peak-time LNR services to/from Euston simply by making a sensible choice of train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You mean when they reduced it from 12 to 8?

Running direct up the TV it can't be 12, nowhere to drop off the other 4, and 12 won't fit the Crewe platform used for them.

 

[causton]

You mean when they reduced it from 12 to 8?

As stated, the train was 4. 8 is an increase on 4!

 

[Bletchleyite]

As stated, the train was 4. 8 is an increase on 4!

The 12 being spoken of is I think a later one that ran via Northampton. Not having the old timetable to hand I can't confirm the time of that one, but I'm pretty sure it *wasn't* an xx46.

 

[87015]

There are a number of peak 12-car sets of various speeds that will take you to MKC in between 40 and 55ish minutes, on some of which you'll get a bay of 6 to yourself if you go all the way to the front, let alone a seat.

Commuters ramming themselves into 4-car sets have only themselves to blame. I have a near 100% record of a seat on peak-time LNR services to/from Euston simply by making a sensible choice of train.

Which fasts ones? The 1713 is full, 1716 has standees in the front coach, for example. Expecting people to use stoppers is a nonsense.

 

[800002]

Can someone please dig out an old email, likely entitled. May 2018 SX LTP diagrams - or something to that effect?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Expecting people to use stoppers is a nonsense.

Personally, I'd rather sit for 45 minutes (you *might* have to stand as far as Watford or Hemel if unlucky) than stand for 30.

Or just shift your day a bit. The ones around 1745-1755 (other than the Crewe direct) are far quieter.

Or board as soon as you can and you'll ensure a seat - don't rock up at 1745 for the 46, say. (That's why I don't ever want south WCML services on Crossrail - you instead get the "everyone piles on and scraps for a seat" Thameslink approach).

 

[causton]

https://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/london-north-western-railway-timetables.html might be able to help!

Can someone please dig out an old email, likely entitled. May 2018 SX LTP diagrams - or something to that effect?

 

[The Planner]

Can someone please dig out an old email, likely entitled. May 2018 SX LTP diagrams - or something to that effect?

Good luck finding that on the NR email archive system...

 

[causton]

I have got the May 2018 diagrams to hand, and 1U43/1U45 are shown as 8 cars...

 

[87015]

May 18 1646 booked 8 car, NN410 (350/1) and NN435 (350/1)

Presume the internal comms referred to above is based on lies then!

 

[Comstock]

Forgive my ignorance. What's a "u" at Milton Keynes?

From context I wonder if it's some way of only allowing people to join and not leave at that particular station, but how do you do that?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Forgive my ignorance. What's a "u" at Milton Keynes?

From context I wonder if it's some way of only allowing people to join and not leave at that particular station, but how do you do that?

Calls to pick up only?

 

[causton]

Forgive my ignorance. What's a "u" at Milton Keynes?

From context I wonder if it's some way of only allowing people to join and not leave at that particular station, but how do you do that?

"Pick up only" - yes.

It would mean Milton Keynes Central would not be shown on the screens at Euston.

Other operators do it - Virgin do at MKC, GWR do it at Reading, and whilst yes it can be hard to 100% enforce (especially if people knew that train used to let them get off there and still stops there!) it could be an option - but maybe it could be a breach of the franchise requirements if it means technically too few trains are delivered or not to the specification that is required of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Forgive my ignorance. What's a "u" at Milton Keynes?

From context I wonder if it's some way of only allowing people to join and not leave at that particular station, but how do you do that?

Pick up only. There isn't much of a way to enforce it, but it prevents the train appearing on journey planners and departure boards as such, and while some commuters will know about it and do it anyway, in my observation even before VTWC did regular barrier checks at Euston it would only be the odd one who tried it on and the overcrowding problem was thus avoided.

 

[800002]

https://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/london-north-western-railway-timetables.html might be able to help!

Thanks. I think they are timetables though, from what I've been able to actually open on my phone - will try properly later.

 

[Bletchleyite]

May 18 1646 booked 8 car, NN410 (350/1) and NN435 (350/1)

Presume the internal comms referred to above is based on lies then!

Via Northampton, then? Or did it miss out the wobble?

I stand corrected, I was convinced it was 4.

 

[800002]

May 18 1646 booked 8 car, NN410 (350/1) and NN435 (350/1)

Presume the internal comms referred to above is based on lies then!

And the 1746?

 

[800002]

Good luck finding that on the NR email archive system...

You never know, some sod may even have a hard copy, for such debates! *shakes head

 

[Comstock]

Pick up only. There isn't much of a way to enforce it, but it prevents the train appearing on journey planners and departure boards as such, and while some commuters will know about it and do it anyway, in my observation even before VTWC did regular barrier checks at Euston it would only be the odd one who tried it on and the overcrowding problem was thus avoided.

Ok thank you for the explanation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ok thank you for the explanation.

FWIW, south WCML commuters are generally a well-behaved and civilised bunch, certainly when compared to another fairly large commuter place with green (formally purple-pink-puke) trains that is discussed quite often on here. The worst "misbehaviour" you tend to get is the use of RTT (or just remembering the platforms) to go down before it calls. It's unlikely many would use a train they were told they could not.

 

[Comstock]

Could you give someone a penalty fare for ignoring a "u" restriction?

 

[800002]

Could you give someone a penalty fare for ignoring a "u" restriction?

I would say it's possible - it's an argument I remember having with a colleague. Can't for the life of me remember the outcome of it though.
Sorry, that doesn't really help does it.

EDIT: forgive me, we were discussing ignoring a 'd' stop - drop off/set down only for a southbound Virgin.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could you give someone a penalty fare for ignoring a "u" restriction?

A prosecution would be unlikely to succeed, you could imagine the Court case: "So, Mr Prosecution Lawyer, you are saying that the defendant broke the law by boarding a train from A to B with a ticket from A to B that did not contain any restriction on use on trains from A to B? Case dismissed".

But you don't need any sanction, really, as most people just obey it (from plenty of boarding of peak-time trains at MKC going north - very rarely does more than one or two people get off), and as long as most people do the overcrowding issue is solved.