18-car Pendolino

[All Line Rover]

Is the last train from Manchester to London this evening running as doubled-up 9-car Pendolinos, or is this an error with the data feeds?

 

[zwk500]

Almost certainly, it just means they've swapped the sets over and the feed hasn't quite got the update.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Almost certainly, it just means they've swapped the sets over and the feed hasn't quite got the update.

Mods - wonder if it’s worth having a sticky thread on here explaining RTT stock allocations and how the diagram mis-matches occur as it’s getting raised an awful lot on here recently?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don’t understand why people have to ask this, especially regular posters who surely know our domestic railway network can’t take an 18x 23m train?

 

[D365]

I don’t understand why people have to ask this, especially regular posters who surely know our domestic railway network can’t take an 18x 23m train?

A needless statement. It's a cut-and-shut answer.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A needless statement. It's a cut-and-shut answer.

Not quite as needless as replying to call it needless, but the statement is simple: for those asking, ask yourself has an eighteen carriage formation ever happened before, if not, that's probably the answer.

I wouldn't be quite so unsympathetic were this not the billionth thread created where such a question has been asked since Know Your Train (a great tool) was introduced, and in many circumstances common sense can answer it!

 

[D365]

I wouldn't be quite so unsympathetic were this not the billionth thread created where such a question has been asked since Know Your Train (a great tool) was introduced, and in many circumstances common sense can answer it!

That's the first I have heard of "Know Your Train". Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[liamf656]

Mods - wonder if it’s worth having a sticky thread on here explaining RTT stock allocations and how the diagram mis-matches occur as it’s getting raised an awful lot on here recently?

A basic post explaining all the common misunderstood features would be good. Then you can include the difference between WTT/VAR/STP, explaining that “pathed as” doesn’t equal allocation, and so on

 

[m79900]

I don’t think the 390s have multiple working equipment fitted anyway, the Dellners are just so the 57s can rescue them.

 

[virgintrain1]

I don’t think the 390s have multiple working equipment fitted anyway, the Dellners are just so the 57s can rescue them.

They were often coupled together during their testing stage.

A double Virgin Trains Pendolino set on test on Alstom's Midlands Test Track near Asfordby, Leicestershire. December 2004 Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: A double Virgin Trains Pendolino set on test on Alstom's Midlands Test Track near Asfordby, Leicestershire. December 2004 - P66X41 from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

 

[m79900]

Oh, okay. I hadn’t seen that.

 

[Peter0124]

A doubled up Pendolino has happened during testing, not in passenger service.

 

[SansHache]

A doubled up Pendolino has happened during testing, not in passenger service.

I was involved with that testing, trains 390007 and 390055 (as were) in March 2012. We were investigating pantograph performance at high speed, in support of proposals for the introduction of 6-car 'Baby' Pendolinos to replace Voyagers.
The 6-car trains were planned to operate as 12-car multiple units to Crewe or Chester, before splitting for push-pull loco haulage to North Wales.
On the final night of testing the 18-car test train ran at 125mph with tilt operational between Crewe and Wembley. Total power draw was greater than 12.5MW, so there were several special dispensations in place for these trials.
Sadly all came to nothing following the 2012 WCML refranchise debacle.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

I was involved with that testing, trains 390007 and 390055 (as were) in March 2012. We were investigating pantograph performance at high speed, in support of proposals for the introduction of 6-car 'Baby' Pendolinos to replace Voyagers.
The 6-car trains were planned to operate as 12-car multiple units to Crewe or Chester, before splitting for push-pull loco haulage to North Wales.
On the final night of testing the 18-car test train ran at 125mph with tilt operational between Crewe and Wembley. Total power draw was greater than 12.5MW, so there were several special dispensations in place for these trials.
Sadly all came to nothing following the 2012 WCML refranchise debacle.

Were the trains electrically coupled and what was the pantograph arrangement like? Was it the outer pans used on both units? Thanks

 

[Merle Haggard]

Sorry, I'm a bit late to the discussion, but on the subject of RTT, what does 'VCN' mean? (as against 'CAN'). Is it the 22.00 P cancellation?

 

[krus_aragon]

I don’t understand why people have to ask this, especially regular posters who surely know our domestic railway network can’t take an 18x 23m train?

It's not that far removed from the 15-car Voyagers that Virgin used to run as "blockade busters" way back in the day...

 

[SansHache]

Were the trains electrically coupled and what was the pantograph arrangement like? Was it the outer pans used on both units? Thanks

Yes, the two trains operated electrically coupled, controlled from the lead cab.
Each train had a special instrumented pantograph installed on the H car.
The multiple unit operated with the instrumented pantograph raised on both trains i.e. with both leading pantographs raised in the Up direction and both trailing pantographs raised in the Down direction. This gave a spacing of 217m between raised pantographs.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry, I'm a bit late to the discussion, but on the subject of RTT, what does 'VCN' mean? (as against 'CAN'). Is it the 22.00 P cancellation?

I believe it means a train that was entered in the system as a “very short term plan“ VSTP, has been subsequently cancelled.

I’ve also found Tom’s explanation in the RTT discussion thread here:

RealTimeTrains website

I think you’re doing a great job @Tom Fully agree. :) There is one thing I'm curious about, which I think has been answered before after someone asked, but why do some routes on RTT not show the mileages by the trains when set in detail mode?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Merle Haggard]

I believe it means a train that was entered in the system as a “very short term plan“ VSTP, has been subsequently cancelled.

I’ve also found Tom’s explanation in the RTT discussion thread here:

RealTimeTrains website

I think you’re doing a great job @Tom Fully agree. :) There is one thing I'm curious about, which I think has been answered before after someone asked, but why do some routes on RTT not show the mileages by the trains when set in detail mode?

www.railforums.co.uk

Thanks.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Yes, the two trains operated electrically coupled, controlled from the lead cab.
Each train had a special instrumented pantograph installed on the H car.
The multiple unit operated with the instrumented pantograph raised on both trains i.e. with both leading pantographs raised in the Up direction and both trailing pantographs raised in the Down direction. This gave a spacing of 217m between raised pantographs.

Thank you. What’s preventing 2 Class 390s coupling up now and using the electrical couple button in the cab as it’s not something that is allowed now?

 

[Sun Chariot]

Thank you. What’s preventing 2 Class 390s coupling up now and using the electrical couple button in the cab as it’s not something that is allowed now?

The electrical load upon the 25kv infrastructure. Post #13 mentioned: Total power draw was greater than 12.5MW, so there were several special dispensations in place for these trials

 

[PudseyBearHST]

The electrical load upon the 25kv infrastructure. Post #13 mentioned: Total power draw was greater than 12.5MW, so there were several special dispensations in place for these trials

Ah of course, thanks

 

[Bringback309s]

The 14 car IET didn't happen either I guess... https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L50897/2023-10-01/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Samzino]

Brings me back to that 14 car Voyager Pendolino Drag: