1981/2 timetable start date delayed - anyone remember this?

[nw1]

I always remember in the 80s and 90s the timetable change used to be mid-May, typically between 11 and 17 May.

However, looking at old CWNs and marshalling books, it appears that the 1981/2 timetable started on 1 June instead.

Can anyone remember why this was? Interestingly the 1980 marshalling book for LMR is dated as expiring on 10 May 1981, which suggests the 'planned' timetable change was 11 May, which would be the 'normal' date.

So something must have happened in these three 'missing weeks' to cause the new timetable to be delayed. Prolonged industrial action perhaps?

Another interesting thing about this year (1981/82) is that the SR Central Division CWN was expected to run for the whole year, until May 1982. However (as evidenced by the November 1981 ABC timetable on timetableworld) the timetable changed during the course of the year, e.g. Victoria-Brighton semi-fasts switched to London Bridge, and the Arun Valley semi-fasts were re-routed via Sutton and Dorking on Saturdays. This was, I think, due to engineering works to prepare for Gatwick Express. However, I am surprised that this wasn't planned for in the CWN which definitely had a May 1982 expiry date.

 

[Magdalia]

The 1981 timetable was indeed supposed to commence on 11 May 1981.

The key event was the controversial 1981 budget delivered by Chancellor of the Exchequer Sir Geoffrey Howe on 10 March 1981.

The 3 week delay to the introduction of the summer 1981 timetable gave British Rail time to implement service cuts in keeping with their new financial situation.

 

[nw1]

The 1981 timetable was indeed supposed to commence on 11 May 1981.

The key event was the controversial 1981 budget delivered by Chancellor of the Exchequer Sir Geoffrey Howe on 10 March 1981.

The 3 week delay to the introduction of the summer 1981 timetable gave British Rail time to implement service cuts in keeping with their new financial situation.

Ah right, OK thanks. I wasn't old enough to follow politics in those days - though I do remember the riots that year which appeared to have the same root cause. (But I'm not wanting to turn this into a political thread!)

I have to admit that the 1981 timetable 'looks' relatively generous compared to some of those a little later in the 80s on some routes, for example the WCML and Birmingham to Manchester, which both saw further cuts by 1983 (end of hourly clockface services from Euston to Liverpool, for instance), and the Southern Region, which saw some cuts by 1983 (the loss of the Solent semi-fast service) and significant cuts by 1985 (e.g. the loss of regular hourly services at Christs Hospital and Amberley, only one Victoria-Brighton and Victoria-Horsham stopper per hour when previously both had two, significant peak reductions on the Alton and Waterloo-Reading lines).

Would be interesting to see a 1980/81 timetable (or 1979/80) in that case - not sure if anyone has one for any lines (SWML and XC services would be particularly interesting).

 

[6Gman]

I was on a Scottish railrover during the 11 May - 1 June period. It was not easy! And contributed to my being marooned in Dunkeld at one point.

 

[nw1]

I was on a Scottish railrover during the 11 May - 1 June period. It was not easy! And contributed to my being marooned in Dunkeld at one point.

So what was the service like in those three weeks? Was it an extension of the 1980 timetable, or basically chaos? (Your post suggests the latter...)

 

[507020]

I believe 1980 or 1981 was the biggest rail fare rise ever, basically the first opportunity Thatcher had to put them up she did, by quite an extreme amount!

 

[nw1]

I believe 1980 or 1981 was the biggest rail fare rise ever, basically the first opportunity Thatcher had to put them up she did, by quite an extreme amount!

Seems like I just missed quite a few 'joys' then (as I first used the railways in autumn 1982, though obviously as a school 'commuter' I wasn't paying the fares myself!)

I do seem to remember my dad, a daily London commuter, having regular rants about the state of the railways in, I think, early 1982 - he even went as far as claiming the railways were about to be completely shut down - but I have to admit my own experience going into the mid-80s was actually of a fairly reliable railway with few delays and cancellations*, and the cuts I alluded to above did not affect my own line, the Portsmouth Direct.

(*for example, I don't think I was ever late to school assembly; a 20-min delay or more to the morning train would have had this outcome)

 

[hexagon789]

Would be interesting to see a 1980/81 timetable (or 1979/80) in that case - not sure if anyone has one for any lines (SWML and XC services would be particularly interesting).

I have both, but the best I can do is relate the pattern or try photographing pages - my scanner remains non-functional at present.

I have to admit that the 1981 timetable 'looks' relatively generous compared to some of those a little later in the 80s on some routes, for example the WCML and Birmingham to Manchester, which both saw further cuts by 1983 (end of hourly clockface services from Euston to Liverpool, for instance), and the Southern Region, which saw some cuts by 1983 (the loss of the Solent semi-fast service) and significant cuts by 1985 (e.g. the loss of regular hourly services at Christs Hospital and Amberley, only one Victoria-Brighton and Victoria-Horsham stopper per hour when previously both had two, significant peak reductions on the Alton and Waterloo-Reading lines).

I have an issue of Modern Railways with the timetable "review" for the delayed 1981 timetable change. I can dig that out in about an hour and see what changes it mentions.

The only thing I can specifically recall was the addition of further recovery time to WCML schedules, particularly Anglo-Scottish services.

 

[Busaholic]

I believe 1980 or 1981 was the biggest rail fare rise ever, basically the first opportunity Thatcher had to put them up she did, by quite an extreme amount!

Whereas fares on London Transport were cut by an average of 32% in October 1981, implementing Ken Livingstone's 'Fares Fair' GLC election pledge.

 

[nw1]

I have both, but the best I can do is relate the pattern or try photographing pages - my scanner remains non-functional at present.

OK thanks, that would be very interesting. Particularly interested in the Portsmouth Direct, off peak and peak, and the main SWML as, reading between the lines from a Thomas Cook 1979 timetable (which contains a vague outline), it does look a bit different to the 1981 pattern. For instance, it *looked*, from the timings, like the '82' Portsmouth semi-fast stopped at all stations south of Guildford (from 1981 onwards. the smaller stops were omitted) and some '82's had buffet facilities (none did from 1981) though I cannot figure out the diagramming of these. It would be interesting to see the pattern of the '73' / '83' Portsmouth stoppers in 1980/1 or 1979/80 as these cannot be gleaned from the Thomas Cook - wondering if places like Milford and Witley had 2tph given the semi-fast appeared to stop there.

I have an issue of Modern Railways with the timetable "review" for the delayed 1981 timetable change. I can dig that out in about an hour and see what changes it mentions.

OK, that would also be interesting if possible, thanks.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I believe 1980 or 1981 was the biggest rail fare rise ever, basically the first opportunity Thatcher had to put them up she did, by quite an extreme amount!

(Cough.)

I think that you may have forgotten the 50.7% increase (over three rounds), all in 1975, under Wilson.

And subsidy was still well over double under Thatcher in 1981 than it was under Wilson in 1975 (at constant prices).

Gourvish is always a reliable friend in these discussions.

 

[Magdalia]

So what was the service like in those three weeks? Was it an extension of the 1980 timetable, or basically chaos? (Your post suggests the latter...)

My recollection is that weekdays were just an extension of the old timetable, but weekends were complicated because of the need for summer dated trains, impact of engineering work, and the end May Bank Holiday.

I do seem to remember my dad, a daily London commuter, having regular rants about the state of the railways in, I think, early 1982 - he even went as far as claiming the railways were about to be completely shut down .

Your Dad was possibly talking about the Serpell Report, which was published in January 1983.

I was on a Scottish railrover during the 11 May - 1 June period. It was not easy! And contributed to my being marooned in Dunkeld at one point.

Long enough to see Birnam Wood remove to Dunsinane?

 

[Gloster]

As far as I can remember we signalmen continued to use the old timetable, but with a notice sent out about the summer Saturdays and Sunday trains. I must admit my memories are not entirely reliable on this and I could be getting confused with the abrupt end of the C&D Parcels set up (so abrupt that, if I remember correctly, the news had to be telephoned out to local union reps so that they got it before the public announcement was made).

 

[Bald Rick]

I think, early 1982 - he even went as far as claiming the railways were about to be completely shut down

Your dad is right. In 1982 there was a prolonged strike by ASLEF (the drivers’ union) about the introduction of flexible rostering.

The strike escalated, IIRC to three days a week, and after long talks at ACAS resulted in stalemate ASLEF called drivers all out indefinitely.

BR then pressed the big red button, printed redundancy letters for all drivers (possibly all employees, I forget), and let ASLEF know this. The union quickly back tracked and accepted the proposal. Had it not done so, the network would have closed.

 

[Magdalia]

There were a lot of strikes in 1982.

Most of January and February 1982 had a series of 24 and 48 hour strikes by ASLEF about "flexible rostering". These were particularly disruptive for overnight traffic. They started as 48 hour strikes every Wednesday and Thursday then switched to separate 24 hour strikes every Tuesday and Thursday. I think these were ended by referring the dispute to some sort of arbitration. These strikes were national news and got Sir Peter Parker onto the front cover of Private Eye on 29 January 1982.

The NUR had a full strike at end June 1982. This lasted 2-3 days and was overturned by a special NUR conference.

Almost immediately afterwards there was an ASLEF strike from 04/07/82 to 18/07/82, during which very few trains ran. The trigger for the strike wasn't issue of redundancy notices: it was issue of new duties incorporating "flexible rostering", prior to the duties being approved by ASLEF.

 

[Bald Rick]

There were a lot of strikes in 1982.

Most of January and February 1982 had a series of 24 and 48 hour strikes by ASLEF about "flexible rostering". These were particularly disruptive for overnight traffic. They started as 48 hour strikes every Wednesday and Thursday then switched to separate 24 hour strikes every Tuesday and Thursday. I think these were ended by referring the dispute to some sort of arbitration. These strikes were national news and got Sir Peter Parker onto the front cover of Private Eye on 29 January 1982.

The NUR had a full strike at end June 1982. This lasted 2-3 days and was overturned by a special NUR conference.

Almost immediately afterwards there was an ASLEF strike from 04/07/82 to 18/07/82, during which very few trains ran. The trigger for the strike wasn't issue of redundancy notices: it was issue of new duties incorporating "flexible rostering", prior to the duties being approved by ASLEF.

As i said above, the dispute was about flexible rostering. It was ended by BR printing the redundancy letters, and ASLEF conceding. The letters were not issued.

 

[Magdalia]

Hansard 02/07/82:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1982-07-02/debates/8e0d6ecd-6e1a-49ae-85f5-949ff073c68d/Aslef(RailDispute)

Secretary of State for Transport:

The ASLEF executive's ground for this action is that it refuses to operate British Railways Board's plans for more flexible working hours or rosters

Opposition spokesman:

Is the Secretary of State aware that on 30 June ASLEF made a proposal to the BRB that if the board would call off its unilateral implementation of flexible rosters on Sunday night the union executive would recall its conference as
speedily as possible

No mention of redundancy notices at that stage. That came later, see Hansard 14/07/82:

British Rail (Dispute) (Hansard, 14 July 1982)

British Rail (Dispute) (Hansard, 14 July 1982)

api.parliament.uk

Secretary of State for Transport:

In the face of the continuing strike imposed by the executive of ASLEF against the new work rosters firmly recommended by Lord McCarthy's tribunal, the British Railways Board has within the last two hours announced that it will be forced to close the railway system down from next Wednesday unless there is a substantial return to work by the drivers.

All those on strike on the previous day will be dismissed. At the same time, they will be offered immediate re-employment on the same terms, provided only that they agree to work to the new rosters.

If I had searched for "dismissed" instead of "redundancy", then I'd have found it more quickly. If anything, "redundancy" understates the BR position on 14/07/82.

 

[Bald Rick]

Hansard 02/07/82:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1982-07-02/debates/8e0d6ecd-6e1a-49ae-85f5-949ff073c68d/Aslef(RailDispute)

Secretary of State for Transport:

The ASLEF executive's ground for this action is that it refuses to operate British Railways Board's plans for more flexible working hours or rosters

Opposition spokesman:

Is the Secretary of State aware that on 30 June ASLEF made a proposal to the BRB that if the board would call off its unilateral implementation of flexible rosters on Sunday night the union executive would recall its conference as
speedily as possible

No mention of redundancy notices.

I’ll dig out the detail, but they came later.

Edit: The Detail, courtesy of Modern Railways, October 1982. Note the entry for 15 July. ASLEF ended the dispute on the 18th.




Also in the same issue:

A news item about a potential “electric HST” (this eventually became the IEP)
A report on a proposed High Speed Line between Sacramento and LA (about to start construction 40 years later)
A feature on the proposed electrification of the GWML to Didcot and Oxford at a cost of £600k* per mile for the electrification only (excluding all the clearance and signalling works) (postponed due to financial consequences of the strike)

*£3m a mile in today’s prices.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Slightly confused by the above. Was the 1982 ASLEF dispute directly related to the issuance of the 1981/82 national timetable being delayed, which apparently was some twelve or so months previously?

 

[Magdalia]

Slightly confused by the above. Was the 1982 ASLEF dispute directly related to the issuance of the 1981/82 national timetable being delayed, which apparently was some twelve or so months previously?

Not directly, but both are part of the same "big picture" of the financial constraints under which the railway were operating. It was the reference to closing down the network that led to discussion of the strikes.

Edit: The Detail, courtesy of Modern Railways, October 1982. Note the entry for 15 July. ASLEF ended the dispute on the 18th.

View attachment 111098

Thanks for this. The 15 July entry matches with 14 July Hansard.

 

[43096]

Also in the same issue:

A news item about a potential “electric HST” (this eventually became the IEP)

Electric HST became IEP? No, no it didn’t.

 

[nw1]

Interesting discussion of what happened in 1982. It appears I just missed this very turbulent period as I started school commuting in the September. Quite appalling IMO that there were threats to close down the network and dismiss all drivers - though I don't blame BR for this, I blame the then-government.

My dad was one for exaggerating things, and had some very strong anti-union and anti-socialist beliefs, which is why I was initially sceptical.

But, like now, it's quite evident, not just from this, that the UK in the early 80s was very, very politically polarised.

 

[Bald Rick]

Electric HST became IEP? No, no it didn’t.

We are wandering some distance off topic, but you can trace the lineage from ‘electric hst’ through to HST replacement, to ‘HST 2’, then eventually IEP. It has been 17 years since the procurement for IEP started, and 15 since the tender was issued!

 

[nw1]

Electric HST became IEP? No, no it didn’t.

Wouldn't the 'electric HST' have been what later became 91/IC225 sets for the ECML? (I realise they are technically not an 'electric HST', comprising a loco, coaches and DVT, but similar in terms of end-use).

That was not-so-far in the future at the time, and I remember the IC225 project being discussed during the 80s as an electric 'equivalent' to the HST.

 

[Bald Rick]

Wouldn't the 'electric HST' have been what later became 91/IC225 sets for the ECML? (I realise they are technically not an 'electric HST', comprising a loco, coaches and DVT, but similar in terms of end-use).

That was not-so-far in the future at the time, and I remember the IC225 project being discussed during the 80s as an electric 'equivalent' to the HST.

Strictly speaking the IC225 sets 3volved from APT

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Think we're drifting somewhat off topic here.

 

[Cowley]

Think we're drifting somewhat off topic here.

You tend to find that with history threads sometimes just because it pulls in subjects from a wider viewpoint.
Anyway I’m sure we’ll be back on subject with the next few posts.

 

[dk1]

I lived opposite Yarmouth Vauxhall station & was only 13 at the time but remember the local services being cut back quite drastically from that timetable. There where periods of nothing due to flexible rostering strike action & of course later that year the March-Spalding line was permanently closed. It was all rather a depressing time.

 

[Falcon1200]

The Detail, courtesy of Modern Railways, October 1982. Note the entry for 15 July. ASLEF ended the dispute on the 18th.

That brings back some memories, thanks for posting @Bald Rick.

In 1982 I was living in Oxford and working at Reading Booking Office. During the NUR strikes I was allowed to 'book on' at Oxford, however Management got tough for the ASLEF strikes and insisted I turn Up for my booked shifts at Reading. Having no car I used annual leave for the days I could not get in by public transport, and when I could the bus, usually changing at Wallingford. But on the 15th July a train ran to get me home !

Quite appalling IMO that there were threats to close down the network and dismiss all drivers - though I don't blame BR for this, I blame the then-government.

Peter Parker was IMHO the best Chairman BR ever had, and the fact that he proposed such a drastic measure shows how serious the situation was; BR was alienating and losing both passenger and freight customers due to the strikes, putting the whole industry's future in jeopardy.

Those were certainly difficult days.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Ah right, OK thanks. I wasn't old enough to follow politics in those days - though I do remember the riots that year which appeared to have the same root cause. (But I'm not wanting to turn this into a political thread!)

I have to admit that the 1981 timetable 'looks' relatively generous compared to some of those a little later in the 80s on some routes, for example the WCML and Birmingham to Manchester, which both saw further cuts by 1983 (end of hourly clockface services from Euston to Liverpool, for instance), and the Southern Region, which saw some cuts by 1983 (the loss of the Solent semi-fast service) and significant cuts by 1985 (e.g. the loss of regular hourly services at Christs Hospital and Amberley, only one Victoria-Brighton and Victoria-Horsham stopper per hour when previously both had two, significant peak reductions on the Alton and Waterloo-Reading lines).

Would be interesting to see a 1980/81 timetable (or 1979/80) in that case - not sure if anyone has one for any lines (SWML and XC services would be particularly interesting).

"As I remember it" (I am sure someone will tell me I am absolutely wrong) 1982 was a period of rolling stock shortage as BR were trying to switch from first generation DMU's to Pacers etc. So in 1982 all but one passing loops on the Middlesbrough to Whitby line were removed and the line mostly designalled. The service was also reduced from about 8 or 9 trains each way to 4 or 5.