2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro)

[AM9]

If the ability to stand up fully wasn't restricted by the bodyside profile the Drain would be an obvious candidate!

It would also be used if Ryanair was a TOC.

 

[birchesgreen]

At one stage wasn't there an idea to replace the W&C with a travelator? That would have been interesting to go on, though i think i'd prefer a tube train!

 

[Mikey C]

I would imagine the ideal timeline of stock replacement is 2025 Piccadilly Line, Bakerloo 2028-2030, Central Line and W&S 2033-2035.

Jubilee and Northern Line replacement stock I would imagine will be the next big stock replacement but I suspect not until the late 2030s or early 2040s.

By the time the Northern and Jubilee Line trains are replaced, I imagine the design will have moved on, as the New Tube for London design will be 15-20 years old.

I also imagine the Jubilee Line 96s will have had some serious mechanical work by then too, to replace its "Networker era" electrical equipment.

 

[birchesgreen]

By the time the 95/96 are ready to replace i suspect they may create a design which can be later used to replace the 09s as well.

 

[Pdf]

I hate that all the new trains only have sideways seating. I get travel sick travelling sideways. They don’t consider this. Where else in the world only has trains with sideways seating and not forwards/backwards seats?

In Japan a lot of surface level trains are longitudinal only similar to the London Overground.

 

[AM9]

In Japan a lot of surface level trains are longitudinal only similar to the London Overground.

Maybe @oystercash hasn't travelled abroadmuch, (or at all).

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm someone who will always go for the transverse seat if available. However, it's not the optimum layout for metro services and it's clear to see that longitudinal seating both increases capacity and reduces dwell times, so that's the way to go every time.

 

[Recessio]

Transverse seating may have made sense when the Bakerloo went all the way to Watford Junction, but you don't need it on inner Metro stock and certainly not the Bakerloo in its current form. Hoping they don't add it to any variant of the 2024 stock (for Picadilly or future lines) as it's really not great on tube stock, there just isn't enough space. It's fine on an S8 but that's a much bigger train.

 

[Mikey C]

Transverse seating may have made sense when the Bakerloo went all the way to Watford Junction, but you don't need it on inner Metro stock and certainly not the Bakerloo in its current form. Hoping they don't add it to any variant of the 2024 stock (for Picadilly or future lines) as it's really not great on tube stock, there just isn't enough space. It's fine on an S8 but that's a much bigger train.

I like the seating layout of the 345s, with its single bays of transverse seating placed along the train.

 

[Thirteen]

The refurbished 1972 stock trains has no traverse seating at all and given TfL's preference is longitudinal seating for their rolling stock with a few exceptions, it's unlikely we'll see traverse in the 2024 stock. I expect the replacement for the CR4000s on the Trams will have a mix of seating although is all longitudinal seating possible on a tram?

 

[birchesgreen]

Transverse seating may have made sense when the Bakerloo went all the way to Watford Junction, but you don't need it on inner Metro stock and certainly not the Bakerloo in its current form.

Well thats an opinion of course, i enjoy it personally.

 

[CarrotPie]

I think Japan at one point had metro trains without any seating at all!

The E231 series previously used on the Yamanote line (an exceptionally busy circular suburban rail line) had two out of 11 cars with six doors and only fold-up seats to pack in the people! They were converted to normal cars in 2011, as the extra capacity wasn't deemed necessary. There are some good pictures of them here.

 

[rmt4ever]

Its so awkward travelling with a friend or colleague and conversing with them. You wouldn’t sit side by side in a pub or restaurant and have a discussion, it would be weird. You sit opposite.

I suppose you could sit opposite with sideways seating. Then you have to talk louder and everyone can hear your conversation, and then say the train gets busy and suddenly you cant even see each other.

 

[CarrotPie]

Its so awkward travelling with a friend or colleague and conversing with them. You wouldn’t sit side by side in a pub or restaurant and have a discussion, it would be weird. You sit opposite.

I suppose you could sit opposite with sideways seating. Then you have to talk louder and everyone can hear your conversation, and then say the train gets busy and suddenly you cant even see each other.

Does it tick the box? Then that's what the new train shall have.

 

[Nym]

The refurbished 1972 stock trains has no traverse seating at all and given TfL's preference is longitudinal seating for their rolling stock with a few exceptions, it's unlikely we'll see traverse in the 2024 stock. I expect the replacement for the CR4000s on the Trams will have a mix of seating although is all longitudinal seating possible on a tram?

Errr. since when?

The seating is very unlikely to change in the motor cars on 1972TS, and if it does, it will be a colossal waste of money!

 

[TRAX]

is all longitudinal seating possible on a tram?

Not on trams inside which the bogies protrude in the passenger compartment (which is all of the low-floor ones).

 

[ThameslinkUser]

The seating is very unlikely to change in the motor cars on 1972TS, and if it does, it will be a colossal waste of money!

It isn't changing. The disabled spaces are not in the motor cars.

 

[Nym]

It isn't changing. The disabled spaces are not in the motor cars.

I know(!).
Please read the context of my reply.

There are no transverse seats in the trailer cars anyway.

 

[ijmad]

Transverse seating may have made sense when the Bakerloo went all the way to Watford Junction, but you don't need it on inner Metro stock and certainly not the Bakerloo in its current form. Hoping they don't add it to any variant of the 2024 stock (for Picadilly or future lines) as it's really not great on tube stock, there just isn't enough space. It's fine on an S8 but that's a much bigger train.

Even if the Bakerloo went back to Watford, the journey time would still be well under that from the outer parts of the Central, District or Piccadilly Lines which are 100% longitudinal.

 

[birchesgreen]

Even if the Bakerloo went back to Watford, the journey time would still be well under that from the outer parts of the Central, District or Piccadilly Lines which are 100% longitudinal.

Doesn't mean lengthy journies on those lines wouldn't be preferable in transverse seats if the option was there. Unfortunately it will never be.

 

[Recessio]

Even if the Bakerloo went back to Watford, the journey time would still be well under that from the outer parts of the Central, District or Piccadilly Lines which are 100% longitudinal.

You're actually completely right, I didn't even think to compare to other lines, I just assumed the journey time was longer because of how slow the Bakerloo feels.

Okay now I definitely hope TfL don't feel the need to put transverse seats on any 2024 stock, they're just too space inefficient on cramped tube stock.

 

[AM9]

Doesn't mean lengthy journies on those lines wouldn't be preferable in transverse seats if the option was there. Unfortunately it will never be.

That's fine if there aren't many other passengers, particularly any standing.

 

[ijmad]

Doesn't mean lengthy journies on those lines wouldn't be preferable in transverse seats if the option was there. Unfortunately it will never be.

You're actually completely right, I didn't even think to compare to other lines, I just assumed the journey time was longer because of how slow the Bakerloo feels.

Okay now I definitely hope TfL don't feel the need to put transverse seats on any 2024 stock, they're just too space inefficient on cramped tube stock.

Indeed, I was just observing that TfL don't seem to think there's any need for transverse seating for journeys of less than an hour, as for whether that meets with the approval of everyone, well clearly not, but if the compromise is having only longitudinal seating so there's enough floor space during the morning rush, then there is no choice really is there.

 

[bramling]

50 years old isn’t unheard of in train lifespan.

It will be amazing if these particular trains reach that, considering the sheer number of issues with them. We wait to see just how successful the CLIP works turn out to be, however history casts a cautionary note on significant re-engineering of rolling stock. Time will tell.

 

[rebmcr]

Indeed, I was just observing that TfL don't seem to think there's any need for longitudinal seating for journeys of less than an hour, as for whether that meets with the approval of everyone, well clearly not, but if the compromise is having only transverse seating so there's enough floor space during the morning rush, then there is no choice really is there.

I think you have the seating names swapped around there.

 

[Snow1964]

Just published as part of the short notice TfL Board committee meeting tomorrow 22nd Dec

All very politely phrased in the public versions under 3.1-3.3 (Background) and 4.1-4.3 (Benefits), but sounds like train delivery is being extended / rephased (both terms appear). 5.1 (Finance) talks about cost of storing new trains if no changes take place

3.3 also suggests Siemens has asked for a compensation event, as TfL can't meet depot availability by contracted delivery dates

No details as they are in confidential part 2 Board papers

The only definite date is intention to increase from 24 to 27 trains per hour in May 2028 which is almost 4.5 years away

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s21571/fincom-20231222-item03-pt1-Picadilly-line-Upgrade.pdf

 

[ijmad]

I think you have the seating names swapped around there.

Yeah, fixed it. Ta.

 

[Rick1984]

I've always found transverse seats in cramped tube stock a bit of an oddity

 

[birchesgreen]

I've always found transverse seats in cramped tube stock a bit of an oddity

i think its a bit of a Marmite thing

 

[Turtle]

i think its a bit of a Marmite thing

No. Not really, given the cramped space provided by the restricted loading gauge.