230001 in Polmadie Depot for COP26

[Woods]

As I said, ten quid says it won't make it out of the depot under its own stream.

It's arrived at Glasgow Central, under it's own power. Please make £10 cheque payable to Vivarail Ltd.....

 

[alf]

Make up a topical job
Company or Organisation: DfT
Job title: Head of snake oil drilling and bionic duckweed farming…

And then wear the badge they give you as you board the train with Pride.

 

[Speed43125]

It's arrived at Glasgow Central, under it's own power. Please make £10 cheque payable to Vivarail Ltd.....

Is there a picture linked anywhere?

 

[JonathanH]

Is there a picture linked anywhere?

Yes https://twitter.com/JackPGBRf/status/1453390781109182468

Lewis
@LewisYeardley
·
3h
A special guest in Glasgow Central this afternoon! Class 230 001 which is a battery operated EMU which means it’s super efficient in saving energy!
@NetworkRailSCOT
@ScotRail
#COP26

 

[waverley47]

It's arrived at Glasgow Central, under it's own power. Please make £10 cheque payable to Vivarail Ltd.....

Yes https://twitter.com/JackPGBRf/status/1453390781109182468

I stand corrected.

I've spent a lot of time over the past four years following the adventures of Vivarail and Porterbrook, and their attempt to convert old units to modern technology.

While I accept that this indeed did work, and I'm impressed by that, I still have my doubts about its ability to operate any meaningful service (see the inability of Vivarail to offer useable units to both TfW and LNWR). I shall make my ten quid payable to the Vivarail Christmas dinner fund.

 

[Sm5]

Just went past an ex-tube train at Polmadie with all lit up interiors.. hope they turn the lights out when theyve finished or its on charge for tomorrow.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I stand corrected.

I've spent a lot of time over the past four years following the adventures of Vivarail and Porterbrook, and their attempt to convert old units to modern technology.

While I accept that this indeed did work, and I'm impressed by that, I still have my doubts about its ability to operate any meaningful service (see the inability of Vivarail to offer useable units to both TfW and LNWR). I shall make my ten quid payable to the Vivarail Christmas dinner fund.

To be entirely fair to Vivarail

230001 seems to be active between Polmadie and Glasgow Central at the moment, and is reputed to have operated out of Long Marston last week.

230002 seems to work just fine even if it wasn't certified to work on NR metals.

230003-230005 are serviceable at Bletchley with one unit a day operating for the TOC, presumably by arrangement with the TOC and the DfT

230006-230010 - who knows. There seems to be so much smoke and mirrors online about these, it is difficult to get to the truth.

484001-484005 all on the Isle of Wight and at least three of the units are performing crew training.
Not sure if the delayed reopening of the line is directly attributable to the 484s, or whether they have been a factor in the overall delay.

Yes, several 230s have had thermal events, and it is hoped Vivarail have learnt from these.

 

[Sm5]

To be entirely fair to Vivarail

230001 seems to be active between Polmadie and Glasgow Central at the moment, and is reputed to have operated out of Long Marston last week.

230002 seems to work just fine even if it wasn't certified to work on NR metals.

230003-230005 are serviceable at Bletchley with one unit a day operating for the TOC, presumably by arrangement with the TOC and the DfT

230006-230010 - who knows. There seems to be so much smoke and mirrors online about these, it is difficult to get to the truth.

484001-484005 all on the Isle of Wight and at least three of the units are performing crew training.
Not sure if the delayed reopening of the line is directly attributable to the 484s, or whether they have been a factor in the overall delay.

Yes, several 230s have had thermal events, and it is hoped Vivarail have learnt from these.

230006 wasrunning ECS on the Bidston branch yesterday.
Saw it arrive early in Chester around 630pm
230009 also stabled at the Crewe end of the sidings.

 

[Tony2]

It's invitation only I'm afraid. It's about to set out on a proving run from Polmadie to Barrhead this afternoon. Due to go over the Forth Bridge on Saturday for a Network Rail promotional run.

Are there any details of the class 230 run on Saturday, I’d be very interested in photographing it? Thanks for any info, I couldn’t see anything on RTT.

The class 314 has just been renumbered 614209! Series for units powered by diesel ‘or other fuel’.

 

[Woods]

To be entirely fair to Vivarail

230001 seems to be active between Polmadie and Glasgow Central at the moment, and is reputed to have operated out of Long Marston last week.

230002 seems to work just fine even if it wasn't certified to work on NR metals.

230003-230005 are serviceable at Bletchley with one unit a day operating for the TOC, presumably by arrangement with the TOC and the DfT

230006-230010 - who knows. There seems to be so much smoke and mirrors online about these, it is difficult to get to the truth.

484001-484005 all on the Isle of Wight and at least three of the units are performing crew training.
Not sure if the delayed reopening of the line is directly attributable to the 484s, or whether they have been a factor in the overall delay.

Yes, several 230s have had thermal events, and it is hoped Vivarail have learnt from these.

Have to be a bit careful to avoid thread drift because there's already another thread about the 484s, but looking at the SWR website about the Island Line upgrade, it says that the line is due to reopen next Monday 1st November. If that is the case, it feels like a pretty major milestone for Vivarail - the second of their fleets (after 230003 - 230005) into squadron service, plus 230001 operating at COP26. I imagine there will be some late night oil burning going on at the moment!

Project updates​

31 August saw another new train arrive by ferry onto the island meaning four of the five 484 trains are now in their new home. The old 483 trains have all now been removed to make space for the new trains. Unit 483007 has gone to the Isle of Wight steam railway, unit 483004 is now at Hollier’s Park on the Isle of Wight where it will be transformed into a café, and unit 483008 will go across the to the mainland to be stored on behalf of the London Transport Group.

Good progress has been made with the testing of the trains and the infrastructure works are largely complete with only snagging items to deal with. The heavy rainfall in early August caused flash flooding in many areas, with the running water having a significant impact on several areas of the Island Line track. Our depot at Ryde St John’s was also flooded and 16 sites on the Island needed urgent attention, requiring 200 tonnes of ballast from the mainland.

The project has faced a number of unforeseen obstacles. First the impact of COVID-19 and the effect this had on the work force and supply chain, followed by issues with the software on the new trains and finally, the severe flooding. The impact of the flooding added uncertainty to our programme however , we are pleased that the Island Line is set to reopen on 1st November 2021, subject to a final round of train testing.

We are as disappointed as our customers by how long it has taken to reopen the line but we know the new railway will be worth the wait and customers will soon be enjoying all the benefits the upgrade will bring to the island.

230002 went to the USA I believe, earlier this year if I remember rightly, where it now runs as a battery train. It was running in 2019 on the Honeybourne Line as a diesel/battery hybrid, precursor to the TfW units. There is footage of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sODxzzHhMug

Let's hope it will be smooth sailing for Vivarail from here onwards, they've got a lot of reputational damage to rebuild, but I'm impressed by what they have achieved.

Are there any details of the class 230 run on Saturday, I’d be very interested in photographing it? Thanks for any info, I couldn’t see anything on RTT.

Will let you know if I see anything on RTT about the Forth Bridge runs.

 

[Tony2]

That would be appreciated, thanks

 

[6Gman]

Yes https://twitter.com/JackPGBRf/status/1453390781109182468

Deleted.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Ten quid says it won't make it out of the depot under its own steam.


In other news, the 314 hydrogen conversion can now run under its own steam, however no news as yet as to whether it's in a passenger carrying condition or not. There was talk of having it do a return run out to Paisley Canal during the conference, however it will need more than a lock of paint before it's ready to roll, and time is getting tight for next week.

Surely in the case of the hydrogen 314, any steam is just exhaust?

 

[Bertie the bus]

What an embarrassment. Is that really how we want to portray our efforts to combat climate change to the world? A 40 year old tube train with some batteries strapped to it. It shouldn’t be anywhere near Glasgow, never mind showing it off to delegates.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Deleted.

Try this one.

https://twitter.com/LewisYeardley/status/1453352091473285122

 

[Woods]

What an embarrassment. Is that really how we want to portray our efforts to combat climate change to the world? A 40 year old tube train with some batteries strapped to it. It shouldn’t be anywhere near Glasgow, never mind showing it off to delegates.

Oh dear, not a fan then. What would you do instead to 'portray our efforts to combat climate change'? Perhaps you would showcase the freight operators who are going back to diesel traction because electricity prices are too high? The Chancellor freezing fuel duty and encouraging more domestic flights by cutting air passenger duty? Electrification schemes cancelled and curtailed? HS2 Eastern Leg under threat of cancellation? The post-privitisation cabal of consultants, RSSB, Network Rail, Universities, DfT, train operators etc spending millions writing lengthy reports, doing so-called 'research' and holding jolly away days and conferences with 'keynote speakers' and nice sandwiches to strategise about what needs to be done to decarbonise our railway system but not actually achieving much on the ground. Atleast the likes of Vivarail, Porterbrook and Arcola are doing something practical about this problem with their 'old trains'. I think you're attacking the wrong target here.

 

[Chris125]

What an embarrassment. Is that really how we want to portray our efforts to combat climate change to the world? A 40 year old tube train with some batteries strapped to it. It shouldn’t be anywhere near Glasgow, never mind showing it off to delegates.

Really? Little more than the body is actually that old (as you surely know), recycling is entirely consistent with our efforts to tackle climate change anyway, and the modern interior would probably fool most delegates into thinking it's a new train regardless. The livery is disappointing though, I'll give you that.

Here's 230001 at Crossmyloof

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

Really? Little more than the body is actually that old (as you surely know), recycling is entirely consistent with our efforts to tackle climate change anyway, and the modern interior would probably fool most delegates into thinking it's a new train regardless. The livery is disappointing though, I'll give you that.

Here's 230001 at Crossmyloof

Who's gonna know?

The people who are really interested in the technology will know that the technology is the impressive part, not the unit it's attached to.

Those who know nothing about trains won't be able to tell that it's anything other than a fairly standard commuter train. To delegates from outside of the UK/EU there's nothing giving it away as being old fashioned.

Train enthusiasts will know that the train is 40 years old, but also people who care about trains probably loop back into category 1 and are more interested in the technology...


Probably a nice sales opportunity. In some countries it's not unknown for leaders to take a shine to a particular innovation and decide that they must have it, and Vivarail's pricing is probably quite attractive to them.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Who's gonna know?

The people who are really interested in the technology will know that the technology is the impressive part, not the unit it's attached to.

Those who know nothing about trains won't be able to tell that it's anything other than a fairly standard commuter train. To delegates from outside of the UK/EU there's nothing giving it away as being old fashioned.

Train enthusiasts will know that the train is 40 years old, but also people who care about trains probably loop back into category 1 and are more interested in the technology...


Probably a nice sales opportunity. In some countries it's not unknown for leaders to take a shine to a particular innovation and decide that they must have it, and Vivarail's pricing is probably quite attractive to them.

It is a proof of concept train just like 614209, 799001 and the Breeze when it appears. The Roscos couldn't look their shareholders in the eye if they blew millions on expensive new concept trains without trialling first..

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The people who are really interested in the technology will know that the technology is the impressive part, not the unit it's attached to.

And the technology is what Vivarail are selling.

Vivarail is able to sell or licence its technology to other rolling stock owners (in the UK and abroad) to:

Build new trains
Convert diesel trains
Add batteries to electric trains to act as range extenders
Build hydrogen trains

 

[Bertie the bus]

It isn’t the technology they are selling. The hydrogen Class 314 is a test bed. Nobody is proposing introducing a hydrogen Class 314, they have just taken a train at the end of its life and are using it as a proof of concept. All the other members of the class have been scrapped. The Vivarail 230 is the product. An embarrassing product and definitely not one we should be showcasing to the rest of the world.

Edit: missed the "not" in the final sentence.

 

[swt_passenger]

May be deleted

 

[WideRanger]

What an embarrassment. Is that really how we want to portray our efforts to combat climate change to the world? A 40 year old tube train with some batteries strapped to it. It shouldn’t be anywhere near Glasgow, never mind showing it off to delegates.

Surely recycling/upcycling something as carbon-intensive to manufacture as a train is the very essence of what COP26 is about.

 

[Woods]

It isn’t the technology they are selling. The hydrogen Class 314 is a test bed. Nobody is proposing introducing a hydrogen Class 314, they have just taken a train at the end of its life and are using it as a proof of concept. All the other members of the class have been scrapped. The Vivarail 230 is the product. An embarrassing product and definitely not one we should be showcasing to the rest of the world.

Edit: missed the "not" in the final sentence.

As an earlier poster pointed out, you've only got to take a look at their new website to realise that it's the technology which Vivarail are selling, not the Class 230: https://vivarail.co.uk/vivarails-technology/

The Class 230 is an obvious demonstrator vehicle for them, given the history of the company to date. But I suspect they have realised that diversification is necessary, as there is a limited market for the 230s in the UK and in the current post-pandemic railway where future investment could be quite limited.

I think it's a fascinating and a logical development for them, and I hope that other manufacturers, leasing companies etc will want to work with them to decarbonise other types of rolling stock, whether new or upgraded.

Anyway, you have still not answered my earlier question - what SHOULD we be showcasing instead then? And why is the Vivarail Class 230 so embarressing? Looks smart enough from the photos and videos I've seen. Hopefully more will surface in the coming weeks.

 

[31160]

As an earlier poster pointed out, you've only got to take a look at their new website to realise that it's the technology which Vivarail are selling, not the Class 230: https://vivarail.co.uk/vivarails-technology/

The Class 230 is an obvious demonstrator vehicle for them, given the history of the company to date. But I suspect they have realised that diversification is necessary, as there is a limited market for the 230s in the UK and in the current post-pandemic railway where future investment could be quite limited.

I think it's a fascinating and a logical development for them, and I hope that other manufacturers, leasing companies etc will want to work with them to decarbonise other types of rolling stock, whether new or upgraded.

Anyway, you have still not answered my earlier question - what SHOULD we be showcasing instead then? And why is the Vivarail Class 230 so embarressing? Looks smart enough from the photos and videos I've seen. Hopefully more will surface in the coming weeks.

You dont really think that looks smart, do you?

 

[92002]

As I said, ten quid says it won't make it out of the depot under its own stream. Vivarail are hardly anyone's flavour of the month right now, and as much as I very much want this to work, I just don't have the faith in them to deliver.

In reference to the 314, it's not currently got flooring or internal lighting installed, and it's in a rough shape externally, so I'd be impressed if it was indeed passenger worthy by next week.

Guess you should get that tenner out. Its been out today.

 

[Woods]

You dont really think that looks smart, do you?

It may not be the best looking train in the world but considering it's heritage, I don't think it's bad. What's smart to you?

Guess you should get that tenner out. Its been out today.

That's £20 now.

 

[Chris125]

An embarrassing product and definitely not one we should be showcasing to the rest of the world.

In what way is 230001 embarrassing?

 

[D6968]

What an embarrassment. Is that really how we want to portray our efforts to combat climate change to the world? A 40 year old tube train with some batteries strapped to it. It shouldn’t be anywhere near Glasgow, never mind showing it off to delegates.

It’s only recycling. Hell it’s only what the Southern did rather well for the best part of 50, 60 years. Or do you not get the point of what’s going on in Glasgow?

 

[D365]

In what way is 230001 embarrassing?

Not at all embarrassing!

source: first-hand experience at Long Marston.