230001 in Polmadie Depot for COP26

[DarloRich]

It's arrived at Glasgow Central, under it's own power. Please make £10 cheque payable to Vivarail Ltd.....

Guess you should get that tenner out. Its been out today.

Vivarail can offset success with this unit against the debt they owe me in shoe leather and waterproof coats after the constant failures of thier other products down here. Perhaps they could send us this battery effort and we can see if the Vale kills that one to.

Apologies if I don't join the viva love in.

 

[92002]

Are there any details of the class 230 run on Saturday, I’d be very interested in photographing it? Thanks for any info, I couldn’t see anything on RTT.

The class 314 has just been renumbered 614209! Series for units powered by diesel ‘or other fuel’.

Leaving around 2030 tonight to Inverkeithing. Then a yet to be published time trip over the Forth Bridge for a publicity call on Saturday.
Presumably heading bac to Polmadie from that. For its other trips on Monday to Friday.

Did a run from Glasgow to Barrhead today around 1315.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

230006 wasrunning ECS on the Bidston branch yesterday.
Saw it arrive early in Chester around 630pm
230009 also stabled at the Crewe end of the sidings.

230 006/8/9 all worked Chester-Wrexham-Bidston and return ECS on Wednesday.

 

[Tony2]

Leaving around 2030 tonight to Inverkeithing. Then a yet to be published time trip over the Forth Bridge for a publicity call on Saturday.
Presumably heading bac to Polmadie from that. For its other trips on Monday to Friday.

Did a run from Glasgow to Barrhead today around 1315.

I’ve just watched 230001s progress on Traksy, it is now berthed in Inverkeithing yard having run from Polmadie under its own power.

It is in danger of proving itself as a viable battery train for ScR use!

Interestingly if Fife is electrified the intention would be not to wire the Forth Bridge itself, instead battery fitted class 385s would run off the wires over the bridge. So 230001 had already done this as proof of concept.

I’ll attempt to catch up with it for the press runs tomorrow, there is still nothing showing on RTT yet so will probably be a VSTP.

 

[Alanko]

Is this the first electric train to have crossed the Forth Bridge?

I watched it pass earlier, but it was too dark to really make anything out. It is nice and quiet though!

 

[JonathanH]

Is this the first electric train to have crossed the Forth Bridge?

I watched it pass earlier, but it was too dark to really make anything out. It is nice and quiet though!

Depends on whether you consider class 800s to be electric trains or not - first train running on batteries assuming that the Ballater BEMU never crossed the bridge - it doesn't seem impossible that it might have once crossed the bridge.

British Rail BEMU - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Battery Electric Multiple Unit was an experimental two-car battery electric multiple unit, converted from the prototype Derby Lightweight Diesel multiple units. The train was powered by many lead-acid batteries, and was used on the Deeside Railway from Aberdeen to Ballater in Scotland from April 1958 until it was finally withdrawn in December 1966. The North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board initiated the design and was a joint sponsor. The board promised to supply power at three farthings per unit for a fixed two-year period.[1] It provided a 6,600 V supply to a charger at Aberdeen's platform 1 and 11 kV to a Ballater charger.[2]

 

[roadierway77]

A return working back to Polmadie for today has appeared on Realtime Trains - 5Z12 1235 Inverkeithing Yard to Polmadie DHS. Will go back the way it came, i.e. via the Winchburgh chord, Falkirk Grahamston, Cumbernauld and the Whifflet line. For those wishing to see it, it'll be stopping briefly at Inverkeithing, Dalmeny UPL, Winchburgh Junction and Linlithgow.

 

[Tony2]

230001 currently sat in Inverkeithing yard. The trailer with the charging equipment is nearby.

 

[roadierway77]

230001 has departed Inverkeithing Yard on its way back to Polmadie. Just passed through Inverkeithing. Being followed by a helicopter - perhaps doing aerial filming? Who knows.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Or perhaps it's a practice run for a police helicopter that will follow the train when it has VIPs aboard.

 

[seventh-heaven]

Or perhaps it's a practice run for a police helicopter that will follow the train when it has VIPs aboard.

It is a photo shoot with Network Rail - that was the point of running it to Inverkeithing as well as to demonstrate the range. Managed to get to Inverkeithing last night (about 50 miles) with between 1/3 and 1/2 battery life left.

 

[Tony2]

230001 has departed Inverkeithing Yard on its way back to Polmadie. Just passed through Inverkeithing. Being followed by a helicopter - perhaps doing aerial filming? Who knows.

It was there to film the 230, unfortunately the pair of 158s directly in front was mistaken for the 230 and got filmed as well! They realised their mistake and hung around for the following 230.

 

[Victim]

I think that this is the first 'electric train' ever to cross the Forth Bridge. (Photo: PB Photography on Twitter)
For the second time, of course, the first time being northbound at 23:00 0n 29/10/2021.

230001 currently sat in Inverkeithing yard. The trailer with the charging equipment is nearby.

Wet morning for charging 700V batteries. Well done lads.

 

[D365]

View attachment 104882
I think that this is the first 'electric train' ever to cross the Forth Bridge. (Photo: PB Photography on Twitter)

Fantastic shot. Thanks for sharing

On the topic of battery charging, I believe there was a third rail fast charge system installed at Long Marston. Is this still sited at Long Marston, or has it been moved elsewhere?

 

[roadierway77]

It was there to film the 230, unfortunately the pair of 158s directly in front was mistaken for the 230 and got filmed as well! They realised their mistake and hung around for the following 230.

I guessed correctly then. Yes I noticed it spent about ten minutes circling around Inverkeithing station

 

[Victim]

On the topic of battery charging, I believe there was a third rail fast charge system installed at Long Marston. Is this still sited at Long Marston, or has it been moved elsewhere?

Vivarail has moved from Long Marston to Southam, so it's safe to assume that it's been dismantled until it's needed again, or someone orders one.

 

[D365]

Vivarail has moved from Long Marston to Southam, so it's safe to assume that it's been dismantled until it's needed again, or someone orders one.

Indeed, which is the reason for my questions. Hopefully not too long until we get news/movement on the long-suspected Greenford trial.

 

[DarloRich]

Great.this battery unit has decent range. Lets get it on the marston vale in exhange for the crud we have down here

 

[D365]

Great.this battery unit has decent range. Lets get it on the marston vale in exhange for the crud we have down here

Be interesting to see which of the two takes longer. Getting the third rail fast charge system approved and installed, or opening EWR to Bedford.

 

[DarloRich]

Be interesting to see which of the two takes longer. Getting the third rail fast charge system approved and installed, or opening EWR to Bedford.

I will run a cable from my house if it helps!

 

[Tony2]

Great.this battery unit has decent range. Lets get it on the marston vale in exhange for the crud we have down here

The power units, either diesel or battery are designed to be interchangeable. So in theory the same units could be retained, swapping out the Diesel engine for a bank of batteries. The exchange can be done with a fork lift truck. The main issue currently is probably setting up a national network of renewable charging stations.

 

[D365]

I will run a cable from my house if it helps!

The cable is the easy part

 

[DarloRich]

The cable is the easy part

Each to his own skills

 

[Wyrleybart]

Vivarail has moved from Long Marston to Southam, so it's safe to assume that it's been dismantled until it's needed again, or someone orders one.

I don't think I would assume that, but I might be making an assumption that the Greenford project needs charging equipment for it's year long trial. I am guessing Vivarail and 230001 are constituent parts of that, but perhaps there needs to be some final testing at Long Marston first.

The statement that Vivarail were moving to the non rail connected site at Southam also mentioned a deal for test running of Vivarail products on the Barry railway. However, AFAIK no 230s or 484s have visited Barry yet.

 

[Woods]

Quite an interesting article about 230001 and Vivarail's present aspirations to sell technology rather than Class 230s, has appeared on the Modern Railways website:
https://www.modernrailways.com/article/viva-venturer-battery-230-visits-scotland

 

[D365]

Quite an interesting article about 230001 and Vivarail's present aspirations to sell technology rather than Class 230s, has appeared on the Modern Railways website:
https://www.modernrailways.com/article/viva-venturer-battery-230-visits-scotland

Selling on their technology and expertise was always the intention once Vivarail started developing the battery train and associated charging systems.

Thanks for the link; a pity that I don't have a subscription. Interesting to read that 230001 was named Viva Venturer.

 

[Woods]

Selling on their technology and expertise was always the intention once Vivarail started developing the battery train and associated charging systems.

Thanks for the link; a pity that I don't have a subscription. Interesting to read that 230001 was named Viva Venturer.

Ah sorry, didn't realise it was a paid link. Strangely I don't have a subscription but I was able to view the whole article when I first clicked on the link. Then went back to it later and a paywall had appeared! Now I've just clicked again and the whole article appears. Weird. Anyway, here is the text in full:

A Vivarail battery-powered Class 230 is offering demonstration to rides to visitors to Glasgow for the COP26 climate change conference.

The three-car unit, No 230001, is based at Polmadie depot, where the batteries are recharged each night. The unit operates entirely under battery power, providing daily trips from Glasgow Central to Barrhead and return throughout the conference. In an event at Glasgow Central on 1 November the unit was named Viva Venturer.

The train is powered by six Hoppecke batteries, three beneath each driving vehicle, although at present only two are used with the third offering resilience. The range of the battery ‘230’ is estimated at 100km, although this is considered a cautious estimate with a view to maximising battery life. Vivarail says that for a two-car train operating on a 100-mile route the cost of battery operation is £2.20 per mile, as against £4.01 for a diesel train and £4.15 for a fuel cell train. The aim would be to deploy Vivarail’s fast charge system for rapid recharging en-route using trackside battery banks. Batteries would have a life of around seven years on the train and then a further 10 years within battery banks.

Vivarail Chairman Adrian Shooter says the aim is not to sell the Class 230, which is a conversion of former London Underground ‘D’ stock vehicles, but to sell the battery technology Vivarail has developed. He reported that the company is in discussion with an owner of a fleet of 25kV AC EMUs with a view to fitting batteries to the units to provide last-mile operation for 30 to 40 miles beyond the overhead wires, and Mr Shooter said Vivarail has identified more than 50 routes where such a unit could replace DMUs. He also highlighted the possibility of deploying a battery solution on the Fawley branch in Hampshire, a recent recipient of Restoring your Railway funding, where batteries could be charged from the third rail on the main line into Southampton.

Additionally, Vivarail is touting the possibility of converting to DMUs to pure battery operation, using its own traction control unit, while Mr Shooter says the company is close to finalising orders to put batteries in main line diesel locomotives for shunting moves. Mr Shooter added that demonstration unit No 230001 was for sale and expected a number of interested customers to view the train during the conference.

Vivarail’s aim is for its fast charge system, which uses the former London Underground four-rail configuration but with the live rails earthed when a train is not present, to become the UK standard for battery recharging. Before achieving full approval from Network Rail for main line use, the system needs to be proved in a one-year trial, and Vivarail is seeking to do this at West Ealing for Greenford branch trains as part of a plan by Great Western Railway and NR to deploy a battery-powered train on the branch in place of the current Turbo DMU.

NR’s Safety and Engineering Director Martin Frobisher praised the Vivarail product, saying it proved the technology is ready. Mr Frobisher reiterated that for high-speed main line operation and heavy freight electrification would be the best solution but said for local routes and branches battery power would provide a good option.

 

[D365]

Thanks for providing the quote.

Some of the points in that article seem a bit contradictory. Surely they wouldn't be using four out of six batteries without spreading the load? They'd be knackering the four batteries quicker that way.

 

[Woods]

Thanks for providing the quote.

Some of the points in that article seem a bit contradictory. Surely they wouldn't be using four out of six batteries without spreading the load? They'd be knackering the four batteries quicker that way.

Well indeed. Not sure on that. Mr Shooter also says that the "aim is not to sell the Class 230" but then in the following paragraph says that demonstration unit no. 230001 is for sale. I suspect that Vivarail would happily sell more Class 230s if asked!!

Also it's great that Network Rail are behind it, but realistic about the application of battery trains, i.e. they're no good for high-speed mainline operation and heavy freight, but perfectly fine for local routes, branch line and freight shunting.

The comparative stats about the operating costs are interesting as well - shows how much more expensive hydrogen would be. If battery trains can keep going all day long through a fast charging system, this would seem to negate the one supposed advantage of hydrogen trains which is their range compared to battery trains. Fast charging rather puts a hole in that argument now. Personally I can't see the point of hydrogen any more.

What's happened to HydroFlex I wonder, wasn't it supposed to appear at COP26 alongside Vivarail's train? Not much time left to get it there now! Could this be the Rainhill Trials moment for rail decarbonisation? Perhaps Vivarail's 230001 is 'Rocket':

The Rocket was the only locomotive that completed the trials. It averaged 12 miles per hour (19 km/h) and achieved a top speed of 30 miles per hour (48 km/h)) hauling 13 tons, and was declared the winner of the £500 prize (equal to £44324 today). The Stephensons were given the contract to produce locomotives for the L&MR.

and HydroFlex would be 'Perseverance' :

The next locomotive to retire was Perseverance, which was damaged in transit to the competition. Burstall spent the first five days of the trials repairing his locomotive, and though it ran on the sixth day, it failed to reach the required 10 miles per hour (16 km/h) speed and was withdrawn from the trial. It was granted a £25 consolation prize (equal to £2216 today).

We shall see.

 

[Sm5]

History repeats itself…

in 1956 the BTC negotiated with Scottish power to charge 0.75d per unit to charge 79998/9 (later Test Unit Gemini) a 2 car Battery powered Derby lightweight to run on the Aberdeen Ballater line.
I understood it could manage around 100 Miles on a charge, but was charged at each end of the line.
(railcar.co.uk website).

Gemini is still with us, and in Scotland too.

I dont know its performance today, but back in the 1980’s Ive ridden on it for upto 40 miles on a charge using its aging batteries then.

(someone keep me honest and check my maths)
Genini works Based on 440v x 1000amps = 440,000 watts, (440kw) and 0.75d per kw charging, (with inflation from 1956 to today is about £2.10 per kw) / 100 mile range… 21p per mile, Gemini is still more economical than a Class 230…

For the 230, Based on the quotes of £2.20 a mile, c60 mile range, and reported (wiki) 4*106kw batteries at 750v to operate… the operating characteristics are similar, its batteries cheaper, but its per mile cost considerably higher.

it does have some efficiences though, according to Rail Engineer the 230’s battery/genset is c3 tons, Geminis was over 30 tons. Its batteries cost £50k in 1956, thats just over £1mn in 2021.. Vivarail wins on that, Rail Engineer suggests is £100k, though only a 7 year life… when I was on Gemini its batteries were 30 years old and still half life.

Summice, in 65 years, weve reduced the upfront cost & weight of the battery, at expense of the operational range and battery life.. but still not progressed technology beyond a 2 car unit running on test in Scotland…

its a pity Gemini isnt in Glasgow this week, it’d certainly give the 230 a run for its money… if Gemini had the batteries of the 230 replacing the size/weight space it’d straight beat the 230 into the ground in operational range and cost… its not too late to try it, and Gemini does need new batteries I understand.