27th January - Plan B easing - observations and usage

[yorkie]

I’d suggest it’s entirely a theoretical problem. It’s notable that people who work on LU don’t wear masks as a result of this “filthy air”* (certainly I don’t remember ever seeing a single staff member of station doing so prior to 2020, in over 20 years of regular tube use). And of course neither did passengers. If using the tube caused severe long term health problems a la asbestos dust it’s a pretty safe bet that we would know all about it by now.

True; it's going to be a bigger problem for those in regular close proximity to road traffic, which also generates PM2.5 particles and much more besides. But of course public transport is always the scapegoat!

...I wonder if it is in the TfL funding settlement. But Khan is a craven politician who swings in the wind....

He was also seen at sporting events without a mask at the weekend, so the credibility of his insistence that others wear masks is wearing thinner by the day.

 

[Freightmaster]

...the focus should now be on ignoring those who wish to wear masks, just let them get on with it just as we all did in the past with the Asian tourists that have worn them for years, mask wearing is simply an optional extra which should have no impact on those who choose a return to sanity

So those still wearing masks are insane? While I agree with the sentiment, I wouldn't have put it quite as strongly myself






MARK

 

[ExRes]

So those still wearing masks are insane? While I agree with the sentiment, I wouldn't have put it quite as strongly myself






MARK

Actually I'm still trying to work out the most insane angle of mask and visor wearing, the cloth masks worn for weeks on end without cleaning and being kept in trouser pockets or the ludicrous visors open at the top, bottom and sides, what beat it all for me though were the people suffering serious respiratory problems being allowed to walk around without one at all, thank the Lord for the power of the sunflower lanyard which is obviously all we needed from day one

 

[Berliner]

What filthy air would that be? Up to you, but sounds like a completely irrational approach to me.

I'm totally fine with you thinking it's irrational, but I'll do what I can to protect my lungs from the very obviously visibly dirty air on the deep tubes.

 

[43066]

I'm totally fine with you thinking it's irrational, but I'll do what I can to protect my lungs from the very obviously visibly dirty air on the deep tubes.

Did this worry your prior to Covid? If not, what has changed?

Why do you feel the need “protect your lungs” when millions of people have used the tube for decades without any ill effects? They can’t all be wrong, can they?

Will you also wear a mask whenever you’re walking around in areas with heavy traffic?

And why stop there? Maybe you should wear a full space suit with your own air supply whenever you leave the house?

Sorry, but this really is proper tin foil hat stuff. It’s right up there with flat earthers and people who think the vaccine contains microchips. You’re welcome to continue it, if you want. I’m just so glad I’m no longer being asked to play along. Not that I ever did.

 

[jumble]

Khan giving up on masks was my marker for when this would all be over. Good to see; not that I’ve been following his instruction anyway

But what is he going to do with his 500 or so Enforcement Officers who have nothing else to do I wonder ?

 

[Dent]

I'm totally fine with you thinking it's irrational, but I'll do what I can to protect my lungs from the very obviously visibly dirty air on the deep tubes.

Very obviously visibly dirty air? It really isn't.

 

[DustyBin]

I'm totally fine with you thinking it's irrational, but I'll do what I can to protect my lungs from the very obviously visibly dirty air on the deep tubes.

Dirty doesn’t necessarily equal harmful. You do whatever you feel comfortable with, my only comment would be don’t let it get out of control (for your own sake!).

 

[Cdd89]

Very obviously visibly dirty air? It really isn't.

I’ve been on multiple underground platforms that are filled with dark haze, to the extent that from one end, you can’t clearly see the other end.

I’m happy to be educated that this is merely harmless fog, but my assumption has always been that the air is filthy.

 

[Berliner]

Very obviously visibly dirty air? It really isn't.

We will have to agree to disagree.

I’ve been on multiple underground platforms that are filled with dark haze, to the extent that from one end, you can’t clearly see the other end.

I’m happy to be educated that this is merely harmless fog, but my assumption has always been that the air is filthy.

Exactly. I took a colleague on the tube for the first time the other week and they said "why is the air so misty down here?".

Did this worry your prior to Covid? If not, what has changed?

Why do you feel the need “protect your lungs” when millions of people have used the tube for decades without any ill effects? They can’t all be wrong, can they?

Will you also wear a mask whenever you’re walking around in areas with heavy traffic?

And why stop there? Maybe you should wear a full space suit with your own air supply whenever you leave the house?

Sorry, but this really is proper tin foil hat stuff. It’s right up there with flat earthers and people who think the vaccine contains microchips. You’re welcome to continue it, if you want. I’m just so glad I’m no longer being asked to play along. Not that I ever did.

Why are you so scared that I want to wear a mask in what I see as a dirty air environment? I find your post absolutely hysterical. Why do I feel the need to protect my lungs? How am I supposed to even answer that? Erm? I like my lungs to work? Sorry?

If everyone around me was smoking I wouldn't do it and think "they can't all be wrong!" I don't really care what others do. I'm an individual.

Yes I wore one before Covid on many metro systems, as I've stated previously. I don't wear one outside because I don't feel the need to in a place where there is a constant stream of circulating air. I'm talking about when I'm in a deep tunnel where fresh air is in limited supply and you can see the haze created by the dirt that is pushed around by trains which spend their days going through tunnels that are over 150 years old, filled mostly with stale air. No tin foil hat here, just I do what I want to do to make myself feel more at ease. I'm truly sorry that offends you so much that you feel the need to ridicule my perfectly valid choice.

 

[43066]

Why are you so scared that I want to wear a mask in what I see as a dirty air environment? I find your post absolutely hysterical.

It wasn’t intended to be funny. I’m merely curious to understand what motivates you to engage in what the vast majority of people, at least prior to 2020, would have considered to be fairly strange behaviour. This is a discussion forum, after all!

Why do I feel the need to protect my lungs? How am I supposed to even answer that? Erm? I like my lungs to work? Sorry?

I’ve been using the tube for 20-odd years and my lungs work fine, along with millions of others. You still haven’t explained why you think you need protecting when millions of others apparently don’t.

Do you suffer from some form of heightened health anxiety?

If everyone around me was smoking I wouldn't do it and think "they can't all be wrong!" I don't really care what others do. I'm an individual.

Smoking, even the passive kind, has well documented risks. Travelling on London Underground does not.

I don't wear one outside because I don't feel the need to in a place where there is a constant stream of circulating air.

Why on Earth not? Surely if you’re concerned enough about dirty air in LU tunnels to wear a mask, you must also be concerned about inhaling diesel fumes, brake dust particles etc. on heavily trafficked streets?

The fact one bothers you and not the other exposes the irrationality of your approach.

Yes I wore one before Covid on many metro systems, as I've stated previously. I don't wear one outside because I don't feel the need to in a place where there is a constant stream of circulating air. I'm talking about when I'm in a deep tunnel where fresh air is in limited supply and you can see the haze created by the dirt that is pushed around by trains which spend their days going through tunnels that are over 150 years old, filled mostly with stale air. No tin foil hat here, just I do what I want to do to make myself feel more at ease. I'm truly sorry that offends you so much that you feel the need to ridicule my perfectly valid choice.

That’s fine, but you must recognise you are choosing to engage in an eccentric behaviour that almost nobody else feels the need to partake in. That’s your prerogative, of course and I really couldn't care less what you as an individual choose to do. The issue I have is with the attempt to normalise this type of irrational behaviour over the past couple of years.

 

[Cdd89]

I’m merely curious to understand what motivates you to engage in what the vast majority of people, at least prior to 2020, would have considered to be fairly strange behaviour

Pre 2020, anyone wearing a mask in England would have stood out, which it is not a pleasant feeling. That will not be the case for the foreseeable future.

I would be the first to rail against any attempt to encourage or mandate masks, but de-stigmatising their use is a positive. If someone wants to protect themselves (from viruses or pollution), or protect others, that’s a good thing, as long as the decision is informed and made without pressure.

As an example, I will personally not wear one most of the time, but if I have to travel while knowingly infectious with any illness, I will wear an effective mask. I don’t expect others to - or others might decide to wear one all the time - but the point is everyone coming to their own personal decision (without any pressure) is a positive.

 

[Berliner]

It wasn’t intended to be funny. I’m merely curious to understand what motivates you to engage in what the vast majority of people, at least prior to 2020, would have considered to be fairly strange behaviour. This is a discussion forum, after all!

I didn't find it funny, I found it was hysterical and just an all round bizarre post. I don't really care if others Think wearing a mask in a dirty underground railway network is strange behaviour. I saw people doing it long before Covid, not many, but no one can say it didn't happen. At the end of the day it's my personal choice.

I’ve been using the tube for 20-odd years and my lungs work fine, along with millions of others. You still haven’t explained why you think you need protecting when millions of others apparently don’t.

Do you suffer from some form of heightened health anxiety?

Good for you. I don't need to explain anything, thanks, I just want to wear one!

Smoking, even the passive kind, has well documented risks. Travelling on London Underground does not.

I don't care if it's documented or not. I still see bad air and will take measures to protect myself from that.

Why on Earth not? Surely if you’re concerned enough about dirty air in LU tunnels to wear a mask, you must also be concerned about inhaling diesel fumes, brake dust particles etc. on heavily trafficked streets?

The fact one bothers you and not the other exposes the irrationality of your approach.

Nope. It's not irrational. One is outside in the open air, one is deep inside a 150 year old tunnel with no access to sunlight or fresh air and the only air moving is from other parts of the network.

That’s fine, but you must recognise you are choosing to engage in an eccentric behaviour that almost nobody else feels the need to partake in. That’s your prerogative, of course and I really couldn't care less what you as an individual choose to do. The issue I have is with the attempt to normalise this type of irrational behaviour over the past couple of years.

I'd hardly call wearing a face mask eccentric. In any event. I don't care. It's the least of my worries as the tube is full of eccentric characters. If I'm one of them then so be it.

I don't care if you or anyone else wears one normalisation of masks isn't my agenda, I couldn't care less.

 

[Ediswan]

One is outside in the open air, one is deep inside a 150 year old tunnel with no access to sunlight or fresh air and the only air moving is from other parts of the network.

There are numerous ventilation shafts between the tunnels and the surface. Some bring fresh air in, some take stale air out.

 

[bengley]

I used to stand around on Victoria's deep level platforms for hours a day doing SATS without wearing a mask and I was fine. I never felt the need to wear anything to prevent myself from inhaling particulates. It's not necessary for a short 15 minute journey at all

 

[43066]

I didn't find it funny, I found it was hysterical and just an all round bizarre post.

Hysterical? All I did was ask you a few questions!

I don't really care if others Think wearing a mask in a dirty underground railway network is strange behaviour.

Objectively speaking, it is eccentric/strange behaviour, when nobody else is doing it. Surely you must have noticed this before?!

Do other people in your life do the same? I don’t know a single person who would consider this normal.

Good for you. I don't need to explain anything, thanks, I just want to wear one!

You don’t owe me an explanation, but I notice you can’t actually answer the questions I’ve asked (which is all I really expected to achieve with this exchange).

I don't care if it's documented or not. I still see bad air and will take measures to protect myself from that.

People in the Middle Ages used to carry herbs in their pockets to ward off “bad air”. Is this the same thing?

Nope. It's not irrational. One is outside in the open air, one is deep inside a 150 year old tunnel with no access to sunlight or fresh air and the only air moving is from other parts of the network.

One is outside with Diesel engines belching out fumes, isn’t that bad air?

Why does the age of the tunnels make any difference? I notice you clearly aren’t aware of ventilation shafts (as I note someone else has commented above).

It's the least of my worries as the tube is full of eccentric characters. If I'm one of them then so be it.

100% in agreement here. Fill your boots!

Over and out.

 

[Berliner]

There are numerous ventilation shafts between the tunnels and the surface. Some bring fresh air in, some take stale air out.

They don't appear to do a very good job.

London Underground has high levels of air pollution linked to heart disease, strokes and lung cancer, says study

Concentration of fine particles found to be 15 times higher than above ground

www.independent.co.uk

I used to stand around on Victoria's deep level platforms for hours a day doing SATS without wearing a mask and I was fine. I never felt the need to wear anything to prevent myself from inhaling particulates. It's not necessary for a short 15 minute journey at all

Ok, I still prefer to wear one when using the tube.

 

[43096]

I would be the first to rail against any attempt to encourage or mandate masks, but de-stigmatising their use is a positive. If someone wants to protect themselves (from viruses or pollution), or protect others, that’s a good thing, as long as the decision is informed and made without pressure.

Can we de-stigmatise those who don’t wear them, too? There’s been too much generally judgemental behaviour over the last two years. The pandemic has brought out some really unpleasant character traits in some people.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I suspect Khan has only given up on it because it has literally already fizzled out, and Khan must know that. I think he’d have loved to carry on with it if at all possible.

I wonder if it might have been a sticking point in the ongoing saga of the funding negotiations...?

 

[Enthusiast]

The issue I have is with the attempt to normalise this type of irrational behaviour over the past couple of years.

I have an issue with that too. For two years we have heard various aspects of "the new normal" we could all look forward to. Not so long ago the new normal was to involve buses and trains having their capacity capped at 25-50%. This was going to endure beyond the end of the pandemic so as "to help prevent the spread of Covid and other infectious diseases." Fortunately it came to nought and many services now are pleasantly full (though there's still a way to go in some places). WFH seems to have gained far more of a purchase than I imagined but, with hindsight, that's unsurprising. After all, for those who prefer it, what's not to like? Whether their employers will prosper in the long term remains to be seen. But mask wearing seems to be in a class of its own. There is clearly little to no benefit in wearing flimsy masks but such has been the propaganda in their support that many people still insist on their use. But there is nothing remotely normal (either "new" or "old") about wearing a facemask in everyday situations in the UK. Maybe if you were somewhere where a volcano had just erupted, or in the midst of a wildfire outbreak, but not on the London Underground.

 

[nw1]

I have an issue with that too. For two years we have heard various aspects of "the new normal" we could all look forward to. Not so long ago the new normal was to involve buses and trains having their capacity capped at 25-50%. This was going to endure beyond the end of the pandemic so as "to help prevent the spread of Covid and other infectious diseases."

Were they seriously suggesting that? (Not denying they were, but it does sound an absolutely crazy idea).

 

[farleigh]

I'm totally fine with you thinking it's irrational, but I'll do what I can to protect my lungs from the very obviously visibly dirty air on the deep tubes.

I have no objection to people wearing masks but I thought they were to protect other people not yourself.

Surely - if the mask works - you are just protecting the Underground from your germs?

 

[bramling]

I have no objection to people wearing masks but I thought they were to protect other people not yourself.

Surely - if the mask works - you are just protecting the Underground from your germs?

To be fair I can understand someone wanting to wear a mask on the Underground - the air quality isn’t wonderful.

But if doing so, one would want something designed specially for that task. The Covid “bit of cloth over your nose and mouth” isn’t going to prove helpful.

I have absolutely no issue with anyone wanting to do this, nor for that matter wearing a mask if they feel a need to protect *themselves* from Covid. What we need to move away from is the narrative of “my mask protects you, your mask protects me”. And, by definition, that anyone without a mask is a filthy biohazard to anyone they come near to, a “Covidiot” (whatever that is), or such like.

 

[Eyersey468]

Can we de-stigmatise those who don’t wear them, too? There’s been too much generally judgemental behaviour over the last two years. The pandemic has brought out some really unpleasant character traits in some people.

I agree

 

[nw1]

a “Covidiot” (whatever that is), or such like.

A Covidiot, according to sanctimonious politicians, is someone who thinks there is no harm going out for a 4 hour walk through isolated countryside on your own, or drinking a coffee with someone in your 'bubble' by a lake, during lockdown. Too much risk of beetles and ants crawling on you and spreading Covid to all towns within 100 miles of you, you see. Anyone who doesn't realise the catastrophic role that woodland insects had in spreading Covid throughout the land is, of course, a Covidiot.

Meanwhile, said sanctimonious politicians are busy throwing parties or conducting extra-marital affairs with people outside their 'bubble'.

 

[Cowley]

I think we’re probably done with this thread now.

Thanks for your contributions everyone.