27th January - Plan B easing - observations and usage

[Berliner]

I for one will be making a complaint to GWR because of their irritating and discriminating "Thank you for wearing a face covering, if you can. As a courtesy to others." pre-recorded PA announcement they've introduced since the scrapping of mandatory face mask laws on 28th January! This message is basically saying to those people not wearing a face mask, you're getting no thanks, and you're also not being courteous to other passengers and train crew! This sort of one-sided messaging in favour of the face mask wearers really needs to stop. And with the scrapping of all remaining Covid restrictions on 24th February, any remaining signage and PA announcements on trains, train stations, supermarkets, shops, etc really needs to be completely removed altogether. Time to get back to complete normality now! We don't need to hear and see words such as "face coverings", "face masks", "social distancing", "keep your distance" EVER again!

Well, why would you get thanks for not doing something that they request you do?

If I asked a mate to paint my fence and he didn't do it, I wouldn't thank him, would I?

In any event, it is a courtesy to wear one in that TOCs eyes. If enough people complain they may change that message, if enough people support it and follow their request then they will keep it up. Until they see any reason to remove the request they won't. You are under no obligation to wear one, so don't, but also don't expect to be thanked for not doing something the company you are traveling with wants you to do.

 

[GC class B1]

I have spoken to one or two people who are wearing a face covering and they either believe they are still necessary or believe they reduce transmission. This is the result of poor messaging or misinformation.

 

[yorkie]

I have spoken to one or two people who are wearing a face covering and they either believe they are still necessary or believe they reduce transmission. This is the result of poor messaging or misinformation.

Misinformation has been rife.

Tim Spector says that FFP2/3 masks are effective but that:

other types of mask seem to be of very little benefit

Also interesting to note that cases continue to decline in England, ever since the mask mandate was lifted, yet have been increasing in Scotland.

If anyone distrusts the vaccine, they are welcome to wear an FFP2/3 mask if they want to delay their exposure to Omicron but any other type of mask is pure virtue signalling.

I travelled on Northern/TPE yesterday and there was no mention of masks at all and hardly anyone was wearing them. It was a welcome change from LNER.

My next journey is with LNER and if the Guard makes a condescending announcement I am going to seriously consider giving them feedback as to what I think of that. If they try to suggest I am being disrespectful I won't hesitate to tell them that I think they are being disrespectful.

 

[102 fan]

Looks like there's a few in the Department of Education who can't quite bear things getting back to normal!

Covid-19: Post-primary pupils told to continue wearing face coverings

The Department of Education said guidance remains unchanged despite changes elsewhere.

www.bbc.co.uk

"The Department of Education (DE) has said post-primary pupils should continue to wear face coverings in class after half-term."

 

[Darandio]

Looks like there's a few in the Department of Education who can't quite bear things getting back to normal!

It's worth clarifying this is Northern Ireland. It was dropped in England on 20th January.

 

[Ediswan]

Looks like there's a few in the Department of Education who can't quite bear things getting back to normal!

"The Department of Education (DE) has said post-primary pupils should continue to wear face coverings in class after half-term."

In Northern Ireland

 

[GC class B1]

Misinformation has been rife.

Tim Spector says that FFP2/3 masks are effective but that:

Also interesting to note that cases continue to decline in England, ever since the mask mandate was lifted, yet have been increasing in Scotland.

If anyone distrusts the vaccine, they are welcome to wear an FFP2/3 mask if they want to delay their exposure to Omicron but any other type of mask is pure virtue signalling.

I travelled on Northern/TPE yesterday and there was no mention of masks at all and hardly anyone was wearing them. It was a welcome change from LNER.

My next journey is with LNER and if the Guard makes a condescending announcement I am going to seriously consider giving them feedback as to what I think of that. If they try to suggest I am being disrespectful I won't hesitate to tell them that I think they are being disrespectful.

It is also of interest that I have seen more people wearing FFP2 masks recently. I wonder if that is because these people are protecting themselves because others aren’t wearing face coverings.

I travelled on LNER yesterday and there weren’t any announcements about masks.

 

[Class 33]

Well, why would you get thanks for not doing something that they request you do?

If I asked a mate to paint my fence and he didn't do it, I wouldn't thank him, would I?

In any event, it is a courtesy to wear one in that TOCs eyes. If enough people complain they may change that message, if enough people support it and follow their request then they will keep it up. Until they see any reason to remove the request they won't. You are under no obligation to wear one, so don't, but also don't expect to be thanked for not doing something the company you are traveling with wants you to do.

As I mentioned these announcements are very one-sided in favour of the face mask wearers, and somewhat discriminatory towards those who choose not to wear face masks. This despite the fact that it's been no longer mandatory to wear face masks on public transport, in shops, etc, etc since 28th January! We don't need to wear pointless ridiculous face masks anymore! These announcements are just not needed anymore. IF these companies insist on still putting out PA announcements and signage about wearing face masks, it should at least be neutral such as "The wearing of face masks is now personal choice. Please respect other people's decision.". Better still though, all these announcements really needs to go soon-ish now rather than potentially dragging on for months and months into possibly even 2023!

I think some of these train operators are way over-estimating how many people wish to both still wear face masks themselves and expecting everyone else to do the same, onboard their trains! I remember when mandatory face mask laws were scrapped on 19th July last year, just 5 days later than that on the 24th July I did a return trip from Bristol-Weymouth on GWR. Both legs of the journey were very busy, and I'd say easily at least 95% of passengers were NOT wearing face masks. Also did a return trip to Bournemouth in August with GWR and South West Trains. Again easily at least 95% of passengers not wearing face masks! Also in October and November a few trips up to Birmingham with GWR and West Midlands Railway, the statistics of people wearing/not wearing face masks were very similar. I expect it's similar to that along those lines now. Though in some parts of the country, the wearing of face masks seems to be a lot higher such as Devon and Cornwall. Not sure why that is exactly. But I expect the numbers will start dropping over the coming months.

But if train operators such as GWR who put these nonsense PA announcements out such as "Thank you for wearing a face covering, if you can. Out of respect to others" begin to see that the VAST majority of their passengers are not wearing face masks and confident and happy enough to do so and have no problem with other people not wearing them, then surely they will see that these such announcements are absolutely pointless and be sensible enough to scrap them?!

I for one find that these PA announcements mentioning such words as "face covering, "face mask", "We're still all in this together", "Let's be on the safe side", "Socially distance", "keep your distance" I find very very agitating and effects my mental health. Drives me mad! It was one thing when these restrictions were still legal for all that time(well over a year in total!!!) and all these supermarkets, trains, etc had these PA announcements about them frequently going off. But these restrictions/laws are scrapped now. I really don't need to hear these darn announcements with these darn words anymore! That's why I avoid supermarkets/stores that still have that nonsense going such as Sainsbury's, Tesco, and Poundland, and instead use alternatives such as Asda, Aldil, Lidl, Home Bargains, B & M, and Wilkinsons for a much more normal shopping experience where they no longer have those stupid PA announcements going off every few minutes. Big thumbs up for me to those stores. Big thumps down to the likes of Sainsbury's Tesco, and Poundland!

Incidentally, just came back from Aldi and Home Bargains. Easily at least 90% of customers and staff NOT wearing face masks! The vast majority of people have moved on from this face mask nonsense now from my observations!

We're no longer in July 2020 anymore. We're in February 2022, and have had the successful vaccine programme going for over 14 months now. Most people have been triple jabbed now. Time to get back to complete normality now. Companies like GWR, LNER, Sainsbury's, Tesco, Poundland, etc, please take note and ditch your pathetic announcements and signage about face masks and social distancing!

 

[Phil R]

It is also of interest that I have seen more people wearing FFP2 masks recently. I wonder if that is because these people are protecting themselves because others aren’t wearing face coverings.

I travelled on LNER yesterday and there weren’t any announcements about masks.

I think a factor may be those people who have been abroad to countries where those sorts are mandated. Having been in Austria (where they are mandated on public transport and in other settings such as ski lifts) for a week although my simplistic research revealed they are no better than anything else given my sunglasses steamed up, they are actually a little more comfortable than the blue masks as the 'beak' effect gives you a little space in front of your mouth rather than likely pressing on your lips. So if I had to wear one again I might select an FFP2.
It's possible of course that more people believe FFP2s are more effective given the Cambridge University Hospitals study, but given its scant coverage in the mainstream media I'd be surprised.

I for one will be making a complaint to GWR because of their irritating and discriminating "Thank you for wearing a face covering, if you can. As a courtesy to others." pre-recorded PA announcement they've introduced since the scrapping of mandatory face mask laws on 28th January! This message is basically saying to those people not wearing a face mask, you're getting no thanks, and you're also not being courteous to other passengers and train crew! This sort of one-sided messaging in favour of the face mask wearers really needs to stop. And with the scrapping of all remaining Covid restrictions on 24th February, any remaining signage and PA announcements on trains, train stations, supermarkets, shops, etc really needs to be completely removed altogether. Time to get back to complete normality now! We don't need to hear and see words such as "face coverings", "face masks", "social distancing", "keep your distance" EVER again!

Add me to the list of people unhappy with the GWR auto-announcements. This often results in a rude mutter under my breath. But people obviously take heed of it, adherence around 50% or more on the NDL. No courtesy offered to anyone who has been mugged by somebody covering their face and who still gets flashbacks as a result though...


Meanwhile my standard Guildford Waitrose evening mask adherence rating was around 75-80% this week, so down about 5% on a fortnight ago. But sample error etc.

 

[takno]

I think a factor may be those people who have been abroad to countries where those sorts are mandated. Having been in Austria (where they are mandated on public transport and in other settings such as ski lifts) for a week although my simplistic research revealed they are no better than anything else given my sunglasses steamed up, they are actually a little more comfortable than the blue masks as the 'beak' effect gives you a little space in front of your mouth rather than likely pressing on your lips. So if I had to wear one again I might select an FFP2.
It's possible of course that more people believe FFP2s are more effective given the Cambridge University Hospitals study, but given its scant coverage in the mainstream media I'd be surprised.

As far as I can tell, they're very effective when worn with a proper tight fit, but are even harder to obtain a tight fit on without training. At least half the people I've seen wearing them recently are doing themselves and others absolutely no good at all.

 

[DustyBin]

As far as I can tell, they're very effective when worn with a proper tight fit, but are even harder to obtain a tight fit on without training. At least half the people I've seen wearing them recently are doing themselves and others absolutely no good at all.

No kidding I’ve actually seen people wearing FFP2s (or 3s) over the top of surgical masks on at least three separate occasions now. The whole thing is a total farce.

 

[brad465]

Testing numbers are plummeting, which suggests a combination of reduced covid circulation, but also reduced interest in the whole thing, which I'd consider an observation regarding covid guidance. The 7 day average is now the equivalent of less than a million tests a day, declining from 2 million tests a day in early January.

 

[bramling]

Testing numbers are plummeting, which suggests a combination of reduced covid circulation, but also reduced interest in the whole thing, which I'd consider an observation regarding covid guidance. The 7 day average is now the equivalent of less than a million tests a day, declining from 2 million tests a day in early January.

I do get the sense a lot of people have lost interest.

For one thing, there’s other priorities now. The current run of destructive weather for one, and of course the medium and longer term issue of inflation. Also Ukraine is taking up some news time. Meanwhile many of the “work from homes” have been dragged back to the office.

Even the Covid obsessives do have other things to worry about occasionally!

 

[route101]

Still see many places with screens up in England.

 

[yorksrob]

Still see many places with screens up in England.

I suppose they could be incorporated into everyday life as a sort of sneeze guard.

 

[ExRes]

Had a couple of smiles this week, in the garden centre a man walking round wearing mask, and not just near the covidendron display, stops, pulls mask down, sneezes, puts mask back on, carries merrily on his way, then today in a restaurant not a single customer in mask to be seen, just the one waiter who I noticed shaking hands with four people on one table, I guess he had his reasons

 

[brad465]

I do get the sense a lot of people have lost interest.

For one thing, there’s other priorities now. The current run of destructive weather for one, and of course the medium and longer term issue of inflation. Also Ukraine is taking up some news time. Meanwhile many of the “work from homes” have been dragged back to the office.

Even the Covid obsessives do have other things to worry about occasionally!

At least the concerns we'd been expressing on here about covid taking our guard off Ukraine have been dispelled.

 

[Freightmaster]

in the garden centre a man walking round wearing mask, and not just near the covidendron display,

MARK

 

[jumble]

As I mentioned these announcements are very one-sided in favour of the face mask wearers, and somewhat discriminatory towards those who choose not to wear face masks. This despite the fact that it's been no longer mandatory to wear face masks on public transport, in shops, etc, etc since 28th January! We don't need to wear pointless ridiculous face masks anymore! These announcements are just not needed anymore. IF these companies insist on still putting out PA announcements and signage about wearing face masks, it should at least be neutral such as "The wearing of face masks is now personal choice. Please respect other people's decision.". Better still though, all these announcements really needs to go soon-ish now rather than potentially dragging on for months and months into possibly even 2023!

I think some of these train operators are way over-estimating how many people wish to both still wear face masks themselves and expecting everyone else to do the same, onboard their trains! I remember when mandatory face mask laws were scrapped on 19th July last year, just 5 days later than that on the 24th July I did a return trip from Bristol-Weymouth on GWR. Both legs of the journey were very busy, and I'd say easily at least 95% of passengers were NOT wearing face masks. Also did a return trip to Bournemouth in August with GWR and South West Trains. Again easily at least 95% of passengers not wearing face masks! Also in October and November a few trips up to Birmingham with GWR and West Midlands Railway, the statistics of people wearing/not wearing face masks were very similar. I expect it's similar to that along those lines now. Though in some parts of the country, the wearing of face masks seems to be a lot higher such as Devon and Cornwall. Not sure why that is exactly. But I expect the numbers will start dropping over the coming months.

But if train operators such as GWR who put these nonsense PA announcements out such as "Thank you for wearing a face covering, if you can. Out of respect to others" begin to see that the VAST majority of their passengers are not wearing face masks and confident and happy enough to do so and have no problem with other people not wearing them, then surely they will see that these such announcements are absolutely pointless and be sensible enough to scrap them?!

I for one find that these PA announcements mentioning such words as "face covering, "face mask", "We're still all in this together", "Let's be on the safe side", "Socially distance", "keep your distance" I find very very agitating and effects my mental health. Drives me mad! It was one thing when these restrictions were still legal for all that time(well over a year in total!!!) and all these supermarkets, trains, etc had these PA announcements about them frequently going off. But these restrictions/laws are scrapped now. I really don't need to hear these darn announcements with these darn words anymore! That's why I avoid supermarkets/stores that still have that nonsense going such as Sainsbury's, Tesco, and Poundland, and instead use alternatives such as Asda, Aldil, Lidl, Home Bargains, B & M, and Wilkinsons for a much more normal shopping experience where they no longer have those stupid PA announcements going off every few minutes. Big thumbs up for me to those stores. Big thumps down to the likes of Sainsbury's Tesco, and Poundland!

Incidentally, just came back from Aldi and Home Bargains. Easily at least 90% of customers and staff NOT wearing face masks! The vast majority of people have moved on from this face mask nonsense now from my observations!

We're no longer in July 2020 anymore. We're in February 2022, and have had the successful vaccine programme going for over 14 months now. Most people have been triple jabbed now. Time to get back to complete normality now. Companies like GWR, LNER, Sainsbury's, Tesco, Poundland, etc, please take note and ditch your pathetic announcements and signage about face masks and social distancing!

Yesterday I travelled on Thameslink
Very rude signs still up talking to me like I am 12.
"You must wear a face covering"
If it were not for CCTV it is possible that I could have been tempted to remove them as I cannot believe Thameslink want to be deliberately misleading people

 

[yorkie]

I travelled on several LU trains over the weekend and most people were NOT wearing masks; I am not just talking about in the evening when this has long been the case but on morning and afternoon trains too.

Mask use has been declaring on LU for some time and the rate of decline has been accelerating; even Sadiq Khan realises it's over now!

Mayor of London says he expects Tube and bus mask rules to be lifted

Mr Khan spoke after Boris Johnson’s announcement all remaining Covid restrictions will be lifted in England

www.standard.co.uk

...In response, Sadiq Khan said he expected that would mean passengers will no longer need to wear face masks on TfL services including the London Underground and buses.

TfL cannot enforce Khan's ludicrous requests for passengers to wear masks and Khan must have known by now that most people were already ignoring him, but he didn't want to admit the truth, so the announcement regarding lifting of isolation restrictions provided the perfect excuse for Khan to make this inevitable announcement while 'saving face'.

 

[kingston_toon]

Great news. Certainly on our trips into town over the weekend down the High Barnet branch of the Northern line, mask wearing in our carriage was down to 5/40 on Friday evening and 12/33 on Saturday lunchtime. I wasn't paying attention on the way back as a few beers had been consumed The focus now must be on encouraging those who wish to continue wearing masks to choose tight fitting FFP2 or FFP2 masks, which provide a great deal of protection to the wearer, rather than cheerful baggy bits of cloth from Etsy and the like.

 

[ExRes]

The focus now must be on encouraging those who wish to continue wearing masks to choose tight fitting FFP2 or FFP2 masks, which provide a great deal of protection to the wearer, rather than cheerful baggy bits of cloth from Etsy and the like.

I have to disagree with you, the focus should now be on ignoring those who wish to wear masks, just let them get on with it just as we all did in the past with the Asian tourists that have worn them for years, mask wearing is simply an optional extra which should have no impact on those who choose a return to sanity

 

[kingston_toon]

I have to disagree with you, the focus should now be on ignoring those who wish to wear masks, just let them get on with it just as we all did in the past with the Asian tourists that have worn them for years, mask wearing is simply an optional extra which should have no impact on those who choose a return to sanity

Oh I agree from an individual perspective, but if operators, shops and the likes of Diet Sage are going to keep on urging people to wear masks out of courtesy etc, it would be preferable and more useful if that message changed to something like "If you wish to wear a mask, we recommend a good quality one that is properly fitted". The ideal situation of course is for all mask-related comms to end, but we know that won't happen any time soon, alas.

 

[yorkie]

Great news. Certainly on our trips into town over the weekend down the High Barnet branch of the Northern line, mask wearing in our carriage was down to 5/40 on Friday evening and 12/33 on Saturday lunchtime. I wasn't paying attention on the way back as a few beers had been consumed The focus now must be on encouraging those who wish to continue wearing masks to choose tight fitting FFP2 or FFP2 masks, which provide a great deal of protection to the wearer, rather than cheerful baggy bits of cloth from Etsy and the like.

I agree; the problem is that those who push for others to wear masks are not keen for people to understand the huge differences between effective masks and flimsy, loose fitting ones, which even Tim Spector admits are of "very little benefit".

I have to disagree with you, the focus should now be on ignoring those who wish to wear masks, just let them get on with it just as we all did in the past with the Asian tourists that have worn them for years, mask wearing is simply an optional extra which should have no impact on those who choose a return to sanity

Yes but those who seek to push masks are not allowing us to "ignore" or forget about masks; they are spreading their misinformation and their false narrative through announcements, signage etc.

If people stopped pushing others to wear masks, and instead focussed on ensuring that those who distrust vaccines are better educated regarding the huge difference in effectiveness between tight fitting masks and flimsy loose fitting masks, that would take us to a much better place where the hysterical people would feel protected and the rest of us can live our lives without being spoken down to by officious pompous gits.

I can't see any sign of that happening though; those who seek to impose masks on us are not getting any less obnoxious and they have ensured that wearing a flimsy mask is a sign of virtue signalling their non acceptance of the inevitability of endemicity and their way of reminding the rest of us that they don't think normal life should resume. And for as long as they spread that narrative, we need to push back against that.

Oh I agree from an individual perspective, but if operators, shops and the likes of Diet Sage are going to keep on urging people to wear masks out of courtesy etc, it would be preferable and more useful if that message changed to something like "If you wish to wear a mask, we recommend a good quality one that is properly fitted". The ideal situation of course is for all mask-related comms to end, but we know that won't happen any time soon, alas.

Indeed it won't happen because misinformation about the claimed effectiveness of flimsy masks completely destroys their narrative.

 

[big_rig]

Khan giving up on masks was my marker for when this would all be over. Good to see; not that I’ve been following his instruction anyway

 

[bramling]

Khan giving up on masks was my marker for when this would all be over. Good to see; not that I’ve been following his instruction anyway

I suspect Khan has only given up on it because it has literally already fizzled out, and Khan must know that. I think he’d have loved to carry on with it if at all possible.

 

[43066]

I'll never not wear a mask on the tube now, long after it stops being a requirement of carriage. The filthy air is the main reason, viruses not so fussed about.

What filthy air would that be? Up to you, but sounds like a completely irrational approach to me.

 

[yorkie]

What filthy air would that be? Up to you, but sounds like a completely irrational approach to me.

It's the PM2.5 particles that are the potential problem however a flimsy loose fitting mask isn't going to be up to the job of keeping those out, though I believe a tight fitting FFP3/N99 mask will go some way towards filtering these out, but not completely.

 

[43066]

It's the PM2.5 particles that are the potential problem however a flimsy loose fitting mask isn't going to be up to the job of keeping those out, though I believe a tight fitting FFP3/N99 mask will go some way towards filtering these out, but not completely.

I’d suggest it’s entirely a theoretical problem. It’s notable that people who work on LU don’t wear masks as a result of this “filthy air”* (certainly I don’t remember ever seeing a single staff member of station doing so prior to 2020, in over 20 years of regular tube use). And of course neither did passengers. If using the tube caused severe long term health problems a la asbestos dust it’s a pretty safe bet that we would know all about it by now.

Quite honestly it sounds like something only a hypochondriac or someone with paranoid tendencies would be concerned about. Or perhaps someone who wants to continue wearing masks as a “comfort blanket” and is searching hard for reasons to justify doing so to themselves.

*clearly those doing cleaning or maintenance work in the running tunnels themselves might, but not those in the public facing areas passengers frequent.

 

[big_rig]

I’d suggest it’s entirely a theoretical problem. It’s notable that people who work on LU don’t wear masks as a result of this “filthy air”* (certainly I don’t remember ever seeing a single staff member of station doing so prior to 2020, in over 20 years of regular tube use). And of course neither did passengers. If using the tube caused severe long term health problems a la asbestos dust it’s a pretty safe bet that we would know all about it by now.

Quite honestly it sounds like something only a hypochondriac or someone with paranoid tendencies would be concerned about. Or perhaps someone who wants to continue wearing masks as a “comfort blanket” and is searching hard for reasons to justify doing so to themselves.

*clearly those doing cleaning or maintenance work in the running tunnels themselves might, but not those in the public facing areas passengers frequent.

I agree - it’s grasping at straws. As I understand it having been to a few seminars on the topic in a professional context, there is no evidence that significant, brief exposure to iron particles (this is what pretty much all of what ‘tube dust’ is made up of) has proven negative health effects in the same way that PM2.5 from combustion does. There also doesn’t seem to be much in the way of conclusive evidence that it doesn’t, mind, but as you say the tube has been around long enough that we’d know about it by now.

I suspect Khan has only given up on it because it has literally already fizzled out, and Khan must know that. I think he’d have loved to carry on with it if at all possible.

I wonder if it is in the TfL funding settlement. But Khan is a craven politician who swings in the wind. Not to mention the ‘b’ word but he spent half a decade saying how terrible Brexit was, then the day after the 2019 election he dropped it and has never spoken about it the same way since. I think a lot of the zero covid crowd are going to find their heroes quite disappointing as the wind blows the other way. Starmer isn’t there yet - terrible performance from him in the house today.