3+2 seating

[dvboy]

Don't know about Northern but LM operate Liverpool-Birmingham and Birmingham-Euston with 3+2 350/2s.

I'm not a fan of 3+2 seating on any train, they are almost always used as 2+1s, with the middle of 3 being empty, and the aisle seat of 1 - if you sit in it next to someone in the window seat at least 1/3 of you is in the aisle.

The seats on 323s and 350/2s are too low as well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Nothing wrong with the bus seats on quieter services, much more comfy to lay out on and get some shuteye on the late nights off airport...

I'll pretend that I have not read this......

 

[Nym]

I'll pretend that I have not read this......

Why? My feet always overhang the ends of the bus seating, and it's much more comfy than fashioning a makeshift bed out of the tip up seating on a 185 (although it can be done!)

 

[WestCoast]

Why? My feet always overhang the ends of the bus seating, and it's much more comfy than fashioning a makeshift bed out of the tip up seating on a 185 (although it can be done!)

Yeah, but some of us travel on these trains when you can't make a couch out of your seat! :-x
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When/where is that from? I can't say I recognise those seats...

They are Northern 142s as refurbished by Merseytravel, found operating mostly in the North West, the seating is rock hard on those units with very little legroom. One of the worst types of seating, if not the worst, on the network. Before people suggest other uncomfortable seats (which are highly subjective because of personal preferences), there is always very little argument about the poor quality of the aforementioned seating.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

The inside picture (in your link) of a Class 142 Pacer fitted with the dreaded 3 + 2 bus seats tells more than a thousand words could ever do.....

Nothing wrong with those seats...does the job of getting people's backside on them.

Without taking this thread on a tangent, as a Pacer commuter I can tell you that it's supposed to be 3-2 and it becomes extremely cramped when they get to this stage in the peaks. They are the "bus seats". To prove it, here's another interior with individual seats.

Again, does the job, enables me to get my laptop out and do some work without everything flying everywhere.

Anyone who says that the middle seats on 3+2 is never regularly used has obiously never been on a 150 Manchester bound in an AM peak, well and truely every seat, nook, cranny, luggage rack and grab rail used on them...

Same with any 17xx trip ex Birmingham Moor Street when these were LM units.

well and truely every seat, nook, cranny, luggage rack and grab rail used on them...

Any XC voyager from Manchester southbound. My particular Faveroite is the cycle racks!

 

[Anon Mouse]

As a matter of interest, what is the longest service that Northern Rail operate that regularly uses Class 142 Pacers with 3 + 2 bus seating?

Middlesbrough - Carlisle maybe or possibly Carlisle - Lancaster?

 

[323Matt]

This morning I had the honour of an ex-Merseyrail Pacer (3+2) on a Piccadilly-Crewe train (thankfully only between Heaton Chapel and Cheadle Hulme) And there were at least 20-30 people choosing to stand leaving a fair few empty seats dotted around!
On another note, when faced with ANOTHER ex-Merseyrail Pacer on the return journey, I managed to get a seat and found out how horrifically uncomfortable they are...

 

[Blindtraveler]

wel as a self confessed fat git, I have to agree 3 plus 2 is bad!
I suppose in tackling0the nations weight problem it has its uses though. Much rather have 2x2 and more space to stand.

Incidentally, dont think a pacers done cumbria coast in a while

 

[jon0844]

As we get bigger, maybe we'll get trains with 1+1, then 1+0 seating and then one giant bean bag in the middle of the carriage.

 

[Blindtraveler]

thats a frighteningly realistic thought!

 

[WestCoast]

Nothing wrong with those seats...does the job of getting people's backside on them.

Again, does the job, enables me to get my laptop out and do some work without everything flying everywhere.

Apart from the fact they are damn uncomfortable for an hour or more journey (or you have to share the seat with 3 people in the peaks), which is pretty important. Especially when high backed seating on other Pacers makes such a difference!

For a short journey, anything will be fine, but it's not unusual for Pacers to be on sectors for up to 2 hours (and certain sectors up to 3+ hours).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For a short journey, anything will be fine, but it's not unusual for Pacers to be on sectors for up to 2 hours (and certain sectors up to 3+ hours).

If it is for a journey of these lengths, I would definitely be looking for an alternative method of travel if it was possible. Pacers with bus seating seem somewhat removed from what passengers look for in rail travel in 2012 on journeys of these lengths.

I have always found the seating on the X43 Lancashire Witch services between Manchester and Burnley to be very comfortable to ride upon and what passengers should be expecting for the money they pay to travel. I wonder what type of rail vehicles and their seating-type will be offered to the rail-travelling public once services commence running on the East Lancashire to Manchester services via the Todmorden Chord.

 

[LE Greys]

If it is for a journey of these lengths, I would definitely be looking for an alternative method of travel if it was possible. Pacers with bus seating seem somewhat removed from what passengers look for in rail travel in 2012 on journeys of these lengths.

I have always found the seating on the X43 Lancashire Witch services between Manchester and Burnley to be very comfortable to ride upon and what passengers should be expecting for the money they pay to travel. I wonder what type of rail vehicles and their seating-type will be offered to the rail-travelling public once services commence running on the East Lancashire to Manchester services via the Todmorden Chord.

Depends on your point of view. Those bus seats are quite well-padded, but lack a headrest. If you could take the bottom cushions from them and put them over modern seats, then that might work.

I'd still go for the IC-70s in a 321 though.

 

[thedbdiboy]

The worst 3+2s were always the VEPs on the Southern. Most 3+2 seating doesn't have armrests, so the aisle side person often ends up with 'one cheek on, one cheek off' so to speak. VEPs had armrests on the aisle side, so once they got crowded, the person that ended up with the middle seat of the 3 often ended up wedged between the outer thighs of the person either side, and not making contact with the seat. Not pleasant...

 

[ess]

so is there a list of carriages with 3+2?

 

[150222]

Northern: Most 142, 150/1, 150/2, 321, 322, 323, 333.

London Midland: 150, 172(?), 321, 323, 350/2.

First Great Western: 150/0, 150/1, 165, 166.

South West Trains: 450/0, 450/5, 458.

East Midlands Trains, Crosscountry, Merseyrail, East Coast, First Transpennine Express, Virgin and Arriva Trains Wales don't have any trains with 3x2 seating.

Unsure on Scotrail, Southern, SouthEastern, Chiltern, Greater Anglia, C2C, First Capital Connect, London Overground, Heathrow Express or Heathrow Connect.

 

[Lampshade]

c2c: 357

Greater Anglia: 315, 317 (some)

FCC: 313, 319

Scotrail: 320

Southern: 455, 456

 

[oversteer]

Chiltern has 2+3 seating on their 165's

 

[DarkestDreams]

The 3+2 seating on C2C always seems very comfy - they almost look like full size seats.

 

[150222]

The 3+2 seating on C2C always seems very comfy - they almost look like full size seats.

Same as 333's then!

 

[WestCoast]

Same as 333's then!

Agreed, the 3-2 layout on the 333s is surprisingly comfortable compared to other untis.

 

[jon0844]

FCC: 313, 319

Some 319s have 2+2, but all the 317s they have are 3+2.

The 321s are 3+2 also.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Northern: Most 142, 150/1, 150/2, 321, 322, 323, 333.

London Midland: 150, 172(?), 321, 323, 350/2.

First Great Western: 150/0, 150/1, 165, 166.

South West Trains: 450/0, 450/5, 458.

East Midlands Trains, Crosscountry, Merseyrail, East Coast, First Transpennine Express, Virgin and Arriva Trains Wales don't have any trains with 3x2 seating.

Unsure on Scotrail, Southern, SouthEastern, Chiltern, Greater Anglia, C2C, First Capital Connect, London Overground, Heathrow Express or Heathrow Connect.

172s are 2+2 unfortunatly

 

[fgwrich]

First Great Western: 150/0, 150/1, 165, 166.

You might also want to sub add 150/2 to that, after the arrival of 150202 & 216 from LM...

As we get bigger, maybe we'll get trains with 1+1, then 1+0 seating and then one giant bean bag in the middle of the carriage.

Now the bean bag idea i like...Hmmm, the 458/460s are due for some interior work soon - want to try it out in those, it might after all make more space for the commuters!

The worst 3+2s were always the VEPs on the Southern. Most 3+2 seating doesn't have armrests, so the aisle side person often ends up with 'one cheek on, one cheek off' so to speak. VEPs had armrests on the aisle side, so once they got crowded, the person that ended up with the middle seat of the 3 often ended up wedged between the outer thighs of the person either side, and not making contact with the seat. Not pleasant...

Yep, As much as im a fan of the Southern Slam Door units - Sorry, but im not particularly sorry to see the back of the VOP/VEPs...There 3+2 Well and truly was narrow and awful! As well as the above post, you always had to play a game of footsie both with your feet and legs during a packed out VEP...
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/electric/emu-dc/423/423_SET_6.jpg

Trust me, those 142s with bus seats look incredibly spacious compared to the interior of those VEPs!

 

[stut]

The 333s are helped by the high, upright nature of the seats - contrast with the 319s and 321s, which have you low down and slouching - just try reading a book for half an you on one of those!

 

[Lampshade]

The 333s are helped by the high, upright nature of the seats - contrast with the 319s and 321s, which have you low down and slouching - just try reading a book for half an you on one of those!

The Ashbourne seats (319/321) aren't too bad, but I agree with the 333 seats. The 458 seats are comfortable as well and certainly the most generous 3+2 seats in terms of size, albeit at the expense of aisle width.