3 questions about Tyne and Wear Metro

[Scott]

1. When travelling from Central Station to Gateshead the signal before Gateshead is, if it's not on red, ALWAYS yellow, even when the next signal (at the end of Gateshead's platform) is green (I know that it's green because you can see the signal at the end of the platform from the signal that I'm asking about). The only thing that I can think of is to warn the drivers that the station is coming up, however when you can see the station from the signal and the driver would know the route anyway, this seems rather pointless. Is it just a technical fault that they don't deem necessary to fix?

2. Does the metro not use AWS? Because when near the driver's cab you never hear a bell or a horn sound depending upon the colour of the signal that it passes. You do however hear a "beep beep" noice once every 5 minutes or so.

3. Between Hebburn and Jarrow, there is a section of track that is about 5m long. On this track section there is a "bump" on the track (the track quickly goes up and then down. The bump must be big because you can visibly see the track rise and then fall when looking at it, and when you're on the train you can feel it too.. you kind of get thrown up and down in your seat). I was thinking that must be unsafe enough.. but then add to it the fact that the section of track that the bump is on is a sharp curve *and* that the train is travelling at 80 kmph on this part of the track.. surely it's unsafe and a derailment waiting to happen? :-?

 

[P156KWJ]

2. AFAIK it uses AWS only on Network Rail metals, other than that, I think they have their own safety system, not sure I'm afraid!

 

[Scott]

Thanks I suppose it probably does have its own safety system because if i'm right in saying, it doesn't run on network rail lines other than between pelaw and sunderland

 

[Craig]

1. When travelling from Central Station to Gateshead the signal before Gateshead is, if it's not on red, ALWAYS yellow, even when the next signal (at the end of Gateshead's platform) is green (I know that it's green because you can see the signal at the end of the platform from the signal that I'm asking about). The only thing that I can think of is to warn the drivers that the station is coming up, however when you can see the station from the signal and the driver would know the route anyway, this seems rather pointless. Is it just a technical fault that they don't deem necessary to fix?

Apart from the Sunderland line I think the metro mostly uses 2 aspect signals. Either red/green or red/yellow home signals (signals that control access into the next section) or green/yellow repeaters (signals to show the driver if the next home signals is clear or not). I'm not sure of the signal you mean, but I'd guess that it's a red/yellow home signal.

2. Does the metro not use AWS? Because when near the driver's cab you never hear a bell or a horn sound depending upon the colour of the signal that it passes. You do however hear a "beep beep" noice once every 5 minutes or so.

No, the Metro uses a different system called Indusi train stop which is more like TPWS than AWS. The magnets are the roundish things between the rails near signals. If a train passes a signal at danger it forces a full brake application.

 

[Scott]

Thanks. I'm going to look up the Indusi train stop that you mentioned.

 

[Craig]

There's a bit of info here, but the Indusi link doesn't work.

 

[Scott]

Based upon what Indusi is, I'd say metro drivers have it easier than other drivers. :-P

They dont have to cancel a warning everytime they go through a yellow signal.

 

[P156KWJ]

Thanks I suppose it probably does have its own safety system because if i'm right in saying, it doesn't run on network rail lines other than between pelaw and sunderland

yeah think that's it, I've certainly been on that line on a Northern service between Newcastle and Middlesbrough via Sunderland & Hartlepool and they use the same lines

 

[Ascot]

Isn't South Hylton line owned by Network Rail too?

 

[Craig]

Yeah, they've sent test trains down there on a few occasions.
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http://mark20109.fotopic.net/p53316002.html

 

[Scott]

It wouldn't surprise me if Network rail extended the line beyond south hylton and metro give it full access, because the metro didnt get as much profit as it expected from the stops from park lane-south hylton so most trains only go to park lane now, with only like 1 in 4 going all the way to south hylton.

 

[Royston Vasey]

It wouldn't surprise me if Network rail extended the line beyond south hylton and metro give it full access, because the metro didnt get as much profit as it expected from the stops from park lane-south hylton so most trains only go to park lane now, with only like 1 in 4 going all the way to south hylton.

It would amaze me if this ever happened. Nexus heavily subsidises all the Northern services in the area anyway, as well as running Metro, so it's not a case of Metro giving over access, it'd be a case of Nexus not paying for one service and paying for a different one instead.

Given the investment and disappointing passenger numbers on the South Hylton branch, Nexus are hardly likely to make a case or pay additionally for services to extend a line already chronically underused. And Network Rail I am sure have much higher priorities. For the record, South Hylton has 5 services per 2 hours during the day, as opposed to 5 per hour on the rest of the Sunderland extension.

This is Nexus's investment programme to 2019 and beyond. More a case of improving the current infrastructure rather than extending it:

Phase 1, already underway, comprises more than £50 million investment, including: new ticket machines and barriers; a new station at Simonside (opened March 2008), rebuilding of Haymarket and refurbishment of Sunderland stations, and the overhaul of some bridges and tunnels.

Phase 2 will start in April 2010 and last nine years. It will include the modernisation of stations right across Metro, new communications system to manage train movements, modernisation of overhead power lines, plus other infrastructure and technology, the overhaul of scores of bridges and tunnels up to 160 years old, and the complete refurbishment of the 90 Metrocars that make up the train fleet.

Phase 3 will start in 2019 following further negotiations with Government. It will see up to a further £300 million invested, principally in a new fleet of Metrocars and a new signalling system to manage them. There will be further investment in ticket machines, track, overhead lines, structures and stations.

Source http://www.nexus.org.uk/wps/wcm/connect/Nexus/Nexus/News/News+archive/2008/Nexus+news+-+We+did+it

 

[LilLoaf]

Q1 The reason i heard as to why that signal is always on yellow is to slow the train down not for the station, but for the train in front. Its to keep the service frequency the same at all times, its so the train isn't held at Gateshead station for too long.

Q2 Not really sure about that, but its something to do with that metro's don't go as fast so it wasn't deemed to be needed.

Q3 That bump still there is it been like that for years, just shows how old and run down the metro system is.

As for the line being continued after South Hylton. I doubt it. Would mean more trains to be running and metro running services between Pelow and through to Sunderland is the biggest pain of everything. Why it was done in the first place i'll never know. It was running just nicely when Northern Spirit (or whatever they were called then had it). Metro trains just take up the space on the line, extend journey's. As for the new stations they not needed, there was enough local buses in the area to cover the distance between stations.

 

[Royston Vasey]

As for the line being continued after South Hylton. I doubt it. Would mean more trains to be running and metro running services between Pelow and through to Sunderland is the biggest pain of everything. Why it was done in the first place i'll never know. It was running just nicely when Northern Spirit (or whatever they were called then had it). Metro trains just take up the space on the line, extend journey's. As for the new stations they not needed, there was enough local buses in the area to cover the distance between stations.

Disgree with you on that, a direct service to the airport and 5x c.f. 2x stopping trains to Newcastle per hour is a vast improvement, trains running later, direct link to Newcastle Airport. Loadings between Park Lane and Pelaw are easily bigger than used to be on the heavy rail services. And the bus service is ok in Sunderland but not really much of an option for Newcastle I would suggest compared to the Metro.

Plus the Tyne AND WEAR taxpayers paid for it for 25 years before most of Tyne and Wear had access to it, why the hell shouldn't it serve Wearside!!

As for being "a pain" and "taking up space on the line", what a ridiculous comment... Surely what that really means is it's making far more efficient use of the line?? :roll:

 

[Craig]

Disgree with you on that, a direct service to the airport and 5x c.f. 2x stopping trains to Newcastle per hour is a vast improvement, trains running later, direct link to Newcastle Airport. Loadings between Park Lane and Pelaw are easily bigger than used to be on the heavy rail services. And the bus service is ok in Sunderland but not really much of an option for Newcastle I would suggest compared to the Metro.

I used to commute between Gateshead and St Peters/University just after the Sunderland extension opened for three years and the Metros were always well loaded throughout the day. However the loadings beyond University were always poor so I guess it makes sense to curtail most trains at Park Lane. It's unfortunate that there wasn't the foresight to allow trains to terminate at University when the line was built though as that station was also well used (it serves both the university and the west end of the city). Now most people don't bother with that station as they could have quite a long wait for a train.

 

[spoony]

The problem is that after University the line hugs the south bank of the Wear cutting potential ridership in half. Had it been done properly it would have made sense to run the line down to Doxford Park, and possibly onto Houghton/Durham (even though Durham isnt in Tyne & Wear)

 

[Royston Vasey]

The problem is that after University the line hugs the south bank of the Wear cutting potential ridership in half. Had it been done properly it would have made sense to run the line down to Doxford Park, and possibly onto Houghton/Durham (even though Durham isnt in Tyne & Wear)

Aareet Spoony, personally I still class Sunderland as being in County Durham anyway!

 

[me123]

I notice that most people from Sunderland refuse to acknowledge that they are in Tyne and Wear. Trying to distance themselves from Newcastle, I suppose

 

[spoony]

I notice that most people from Sunderland refuse to acknowledge that they are in Tyne and Wear. Trying to distance themselves from Newcastle, I suppose

I live in South Shields now and we are County Durham. In fact if you walk through the Pedestrian Tyne Tunnel built in the 50s that there is plaque more or less saying that you are leaving County Durham and entering Northumberland.
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Aareet Spoony, personally I still class Sunderland as being in County Durham anyway!

Indeed we are, pity we dont have a direct rail link to Durham though