360/2: Final weekend on Paddington - Heathrow

[33021]

Last weekend of planned operation for these units after 15 years shuttling between Paddington and Heathrow.

 

[JonathanH]

Last weekend of planned operation for these units after 15 years shuttling between Paddington and Heathrow.

So it seems, with all three TfL Rail Heathrow diagrams shown to come from Old Oak Depot (and hence run with 345s) on Monday.

I wonder how many passengers will be on the 0001 from Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington on Monday morning to witness the last (passenger) run.

Interestingly, there appears to be a STP path just put in each weekday evening for the 360s to 'stay warm'.
5Z36 1832 Old Oak Common Emu Depot to Heathrow Airport Terminal 4
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F07137/2020-09-14/detailed
5Z37 2033 Heathrow Airport Terminal 4 to Old Oak Common Emu Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F07138/2020-09-14/detailed

One other odd thing in the open data feed is that the two current 360 diagrams are shown as coming from Old Oak Common EMU Depot again in the week commencing 28 September.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it seems, with all three TfL Rail Heathrow diagrams shown to come from Old Oak Depot (and hence run with 345s) on Monday.

I wonder how many passengers will be on the 0001 from Heathrow Airport Terminal 5 to London Paddington on Monday morning to witness the last (passenger) run.

What's happening to these units once they're finished with? Is Thailand still proposing to buy them or are they going for scrap?

 

[adc82140]

Doubt they'll be scrapped. Are you thinking of the 332s?

 

[supervc-10]

Who's going to take them though? They're a bit of an oddball- the only 5-car Desiros apart from the 444s, which are very different, and there are only 5 of them. I could see them being taken up by EMR though, as 4-car units. Not sure what to do with the remaining 4 'spare' coaches though.

 

[43096]

Who's going to take them though? They're a bit of an oddball- the only 5-car Desiros apart from the 444s, which are very different, and there are only 5 of them. I could see them being taken up by EMR though, as 4-car units. Not sure what to do with the remaining 4 'spare' coaches though.

They'd only really be of use to EMR if electrification was extended to Leicester and one of the Corby trains runs to Leicester instead. Don't forget they're owned by Heathrow Airport, rather than a leasing company.

 

[supervc-10]

I was sure someone was posting concerns about the number of 360s needed for Corby. I might have made that up though!

I'm sure that Heathrow will want to get good use out of their assets- and if that means selling them to Bangkok airport, then so be it. But they are assets that are of limited use outside of other UK Desiro operators, and I could see whoever owns the 360/1s buying them to make one big fleet.

 

[James Kevill]

Maybe what if Class 360/2 Desiros could be transferred to EMR to work on the London St Pancras to Corby line or to Northern Trains to work on the Shuttle Manchester Airport services. And Angel Trains could have purchased the 5 Class 360/2 Desiros in 5 carriages.

 

[43096]

I was sure someone was posting concerns about the number of 360s needed for Corby. I might have made that up though!

I'm sure that Heathrow will want to get good use out of their assets- and if that means selling them to Bangkok airport, then so be it. But they are assets that are of limited use outside of other UK Desiro operators, and I could see whoever owns the 360/1s buying them to make one big fleet.

The Corby service needs 6 diagrams, of up to 12 cars in the peak, so three units per train needed. The peak requirement is therefore 18 units from a fleet of 21 - just the right size fleet.

Angel - owners of the 360/1s - aren't going to be interested unless there is a use. We have a surplus of EMUs currently as it is.

 

[supervc-10]

Ahh OK I could have sworn that they were running it tight on EMR. Clearly not!

 

[MatthewRead]

Is that this weekend?

 

[Domh245]

Ahh OK I could have sworn that they were running it tight on EMR. Clearly not!

They're running it tight with just about every fleet bar the 360s! The interim intercity stock plan is a bit tight, as is the number of bimodes they've ordered, and the number of 170s they could get their hands on (including some conditional ones that they need to somehow release from Southern!)

 

[supervc-10]

That might be where I was getting confused!

 

[Grumpy Git]

I was going to give them a run out today until I realised it was £22 single fare.

Spent the money 'saved' by using the Tube on a meal and pint in the reopened Signal Box at Euston instead, and had some change!

 

[JonathanH]

I was going to give them a run out today until I realised it was £22 single fare.

Spent the money 'saved' by using the Tube on a meal and pint in the reopened Signal Box at Euston instead, and had some change!

That is the Heathrow Express fare - using TfL Rail services to Heathrow Airport is cheaper (£10.90 single, £13.50 off peak day return) and included in the validity of a 1-6 Travelcard / Oyster capping.

TfL to operate Heathrow Connect services ahead of Elizabeth line opening

TfL to operate Heathrow Connect services ahead of Elizabeth line opening

tfl.gov.uk

Single fares on TfL Rail to the airport will be in line with, or cheaper than, the Heathrow Connect fare. TfL zones do not apply to Heathrow pay as you go fares, but for the first time, customers will be able to use pay as you go with Oyster and contactless across the route all the way from Paddington to Heathrow.

As part of the integrated service, daily fare capping for Oyster and contactless and weekly fare capping for contactless will apply, with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on services to Heathrow.

For daily and weekly capping, Heathrow will be designated as 'Zone 6', meaning that 'pay as you go' customers travelling to and from the Airport from within Zones 1-6 will never pay more than the daily cap.

 

[T-Karmel]

Last weekend of planned operation for these units after 15 years shuttling between Paddington and Heathrow.

I've heard it few times before in April, May, June... Not to mention also 2 years ago!

Anyway, if that's true - it's a very sad day. I use them a lot as that's my line and I much prefer them over 345s. 360s are more comfortable, comfier seats, smoother ride, quieter... And most important more reliable. If anything goes wrong it's always something with 345s! I had more issues with 345s since they operate on the "Heathrow Connect" service (which is only few months) than I ever had with any other type of unit anywhere I used to live!

 

[Starmill]

It isn't a £22 single fare to use the TfL Rail service, which the class 360s work on. It's £10.10 to use PAYG.

 

[Grumpy Git]

It isn't a £22 single fare to use the TfL Rail service, which the class 360s work on. It's £10.10 to use PAYG.

Yes my mistake, I incorrectly assumed you were talking about the HX sets, (it has been a long day)!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thread for speculating on the future of these units:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/where-could-the-ex-heathrow-express-class-360-2s-be-used-or-will-they-be-scrapped.209048/

 

[supervc-10]

The 360s have the advantage that they're part of a large fleet (including all the other Desiro electrics) that's been running for years. The 345 is still quite new, and is also the first Aventra train. I'm sure reliability will improve over time.

 

[T-Karmel]

The 360s have the advantage that they're part of a large fleet (including all the other Desiro electrics) that's been running for years. The 345 is still quite new, and is also the first Aventra train. I'm sure reliability will improve over time.

I must say that, I just spotted that your comment about 360 was your 360th post on the forum

 

[matt_world2004]

The 360s have the advantage that they're part of a large fleet (including all the other Desiro electrics) that's been running for years. The 345 is still quite new, and is also the first Aventra train. I'm sure reliability will improve over time.

They haven't been hugely reliable over the last few months as Heathrow airport has been skimping on maintenance

 

[supervc-10]

I must say that, I just spotted that your comment about 360 was your 360th post on the forum

Good timing!

Re the rundown in maintenance- this doesn't surprise me. People have said the same things about the 332s.

 

[317 forever]

I was going to give them a run out today until I realised it was £22 single fare.

Spent the money 'saved' by using the Tube on a meal and pint in the reopened Signal Box at Euston instead, and had some change!

As these are on Heathrow Connect not Heathrow Express, you can use normal Travelcards or Oyster card validity as far as Hayes & Harlington.

When I rode one in 2015 from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington, there was an announcement that this was the last stop for such validity.

 

[supervc-10]

You can use Oyster all the way now, although there's a higher cost than taking the Piccadilly Line.

 

[matt_world2004]

As these are on Heathrow Connect not Heathrow Express, you can use normal Travelcards or Oyster card validity as far as Hayes & Harlington.

When I rode one in 2015 from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington, there was an announcement that this was the last stop for such validity.

Since TfL rail took over its been valid the to Heathrow terminal4/5

 

[317 forever]

Since TfL rail took over its been valid the to Heathrow terminal4/5

Even better for anyone who wants to ride a 360 there later this weekend.

 

[JonathanH]

Assuming Sunday really is it, the two Class 360 diagrams are:

5T03 04+40 OLDOEMU - PAD / 9T03 0512 PAD - HWV / 9P05 0601 HWV - PAD / 9T15 0642 PAD - HWV / 9P17 0731 HWV - PAD / 9T27 0812 PAD - HWV / 9P29 0852 HWV - PAD / 9T39 0932 PAD - HWV / 9P41 1022 HWV - PAD / 9T51 1102 PAD - HWV / 9P53 1152 HWV - PAD / 9T63 1232 PAD - HWV / 9P65 1322 HWV - PAD / 9T75 1402 PAD - HWV / 9P77 1452 HWV - PAD / 9T87 1532 PAD - HWV / 9P89 1622 HWV - PAD / 9T99 1702 PAD - HWV / 9P01 1752 HWV - PAD / 9T11 1832 PAD - HWV / 9P13 1922 HWV - PAD / 9T23 2002 PAD - HWV / 9P25 2052 HWV - PAD / 9T35 2142 PAD - HWV / 9P37 2231 HWV - PAD / 9T47 2312 PAD - HWV / 9P51 0001 HWV - PAD / 5Y23 00+44 PAD - OLDOEMU

5T07 05+40 OLDOEMU - PAD / 9T11 0612 PAD - HWV / 9P13 0701 HWV - PAD / 9T23 0742 PAD - HWV / 9P25 0822 HWV - PAD / 9T35 0902 PAD - HWV / 9P37 0952 HWV - PAD / 9T47 1032 PAD - HWV / 9P49 1122 HWV - PAD / 9T59 1202 PAD - HWV / 9P61 1252 HWV - PAD / 9T71 1332 PAD - HWV / 9P73 1422 HWV - PAD / 9T83 1502 PAD - HWV / 9P85 1552 HWV - PAD / 9T95 1632 PAD - HWV / 9P97 1722 HWV - PAD / 9T07 1802 PAD - HWV / 9P09 1852 HWV - PAD / 9T19 1932 PAD - HWV / 9P21 2022 HWV - PAD / 9T31 2102 PAD - HWV / 9P33 2201 HWV - PAD / 9T43 2242 PAD - HWV / 9P45 2331 HWV - PAD / 5Y21 00+35 PAD - OLDOEMU

PAD = London Paddington, HWV = Heathrow Airport Terminal 5, OLDOEMU = Old Oak Common Emu Depot

5Y21 appears to have been retimed from 0009 to 0035. Is that for real? Perhaps the photographic opportunity of two Class 360s next to each other at Paddington? I hope someone will actually be there to see it.

 

[T-Karmel]

Re the rundown in maintenance- this doesn't surprise me. People have said the same things about the 332s.

332s definitely had worse times of maintenance but they also had amazing improvements periodically. I don't know how it is since March, but until then it was going up and down every few months. I would see the same thing with 360s as they're maintained by the same team, but honestly I can't recall many bad moments of 360s.

5Y21 appears to have been retimed from 0009 to 0035. Is that for real? Perhaps the photographic opportunity of two Class 360s next to each other at Paddington? I hope someone will actually be there to see it.

They were actually almost every day next to each other and very often on the same platform for the start of the service. Very first one (0441 from Padd) was stuck up with another 360 on same platform departing at later time and one more 360 was on the platform next to them. It was usually platforms 1-5, occasionally they happened to be on HEX platforms 6-7. I would imagine it will happen one more time, maybe for the very last time, in just over 4 hrs from now... Obviously only 2, not 3 of them since 345 run 1 diagram.

 

[matt_world2004]

332s definitely had worse times of maintenance but they also had amazing improvements periodically. I don't know how it is since March, but until then it was going up and down every few months. I would see the same thing with 360s as they're maintained by the same team, but honestly I can't recall many bad moments of 360s.

I don't think it was the team maintaining them that was the problem , it was the fact that TfL Rail took over their operation relatively late in the day, so they were being ran down in preperation for the class 345s to take them over.

From a passenger perspective. The inter-carriage doors no longer work properly on some of them. Requiring to be manually dragged open. and the passenger doors no longer open properly, they are also frequently late departing heathrow which I assume is caused by some sort of fault - as the light loadings there meaning dwell time is not a factor.