4920 Dumbleton Hall going to Japan?

[alexl92]

I’ve heard approaches were made by interested parties for a restore and run agreement but those high up are alleged to have to been happy about it.

Yes, I've also heard that they weren't happy about it being restored to run anywhere else.

 

[Bessie]

I know there are limited resources to restore locomotives, they can't all run and once and this clearly isn't the only preserved Hall, but I think we're sometimes guilty of forgetting that these are genuine historic artefacts. 4920 was build in March 1929; before the Wall Street Crash, during the Art Deco era. It's a genuine piece of 1920s British railway engineering, it is irreplacable (yes, you could new build but it wouldn't be a genuine 1920s Collett Hall) and it would be a crying shame if anything were to happen to it. And this comes from someone for whom all GWR locos look the same!

If you want to see a genuine 1929 built Hall in operation this year in the UK then I suggest making a trip to the Severn Valley Railway later in 2022 as Hagley Hall should be back in use after major overhaul.

 

[Harvester]

If you want to see a genuine 1929 built Hall in operation this year in the UK then I suggest making a trip to the Severn Valley Railway later in 2022 as Hagley Hall should be back in use after major overhaul.

Yes 4930 Hagley Hall (built May 1929) and 4936 Kinlet Hall (built June 1929) are also 1929 survivors, and will soon be back in working order after overhauls. They are from the same Swindon built batch as 4920, and more or less identical in appearance and design.

 

[John Luxton]

I see latest edition of Heritage Railway reports Dumbleton Hall has actually been sold. There seemed to be some speculation that it had only been leased to Warner Bros.

 

[Gartcosh]

SDR have also sold 2-8-0 No.3803 and the frames of 2873, both going to Dartmouth Steam Railway.

 

[Cowley]

SDR have also sold 2-8-0 No.3803 and the frames of 2873, both going to Dartmouth Steam Railway.

3803 is another loco that was unnecessarily powerful for the line. It would be a good fit at Paignton though.
The SDR has obviously decided to stick with tank engines and the Collett 0-6-0 3205, which motive power wise makes a lot of sense.

 

[Bessie]

This is a sensible move for both railways. For the Dartmouth line I do think tender locos fit best. It's targeted at the tourist market who can probably just about tell the difference between a large and small steam train. South Devon, of course also needs tourists but the nature of this branch line lends itself to smaller locos and a more traditional GWR experience - the use of auto coaches makes it for me a must visit every year.

 

[geoffk]

I see latest edition of Heritage Railway reports Dumbleton Hall has actually been sold. There seemed to be some speculation that it had only been leased to Warner Bros.

I read now that 4953 Pitchford Hall has been put up for sale by the Epping Ongar Railway. This news would not normally ring any alarm bells, but...........

 

[DarloRich]

I read now that 4953 Pitchford Hall has been put up for sale by the Epping Ongar Railway. This news would not normally ring any alarm bells. but...........

What connection does that have to the sale/transfer of another loco to Japan? Are we worried that the Japanese may become inveterate collectors of GWR engines?

 

[geoffk]

What connection does that have to the sale/transfer of another loco to Japan? Are we worried that the Japanese may become inveterate collectors of GWR engines?

There must be Harry Potter theme parks etc. elsewhere, and there's a Warner Bros. studio in California. One of these might be after a loco of their own. Assuming the E&OR sells to the highest bidder, what type of organisation is likely to win? OK it might just be a coincidence.

 

[Bessie]

It's still got a long time left on its boiler certificate. It really needs to go to one of the larger preserved lines but which one?

 

[Cowley]

It's still got a long time left on its boiler certificate. It really needs to go to one of the larger preserved lines but which one?

I wonder if the Dartmouth Steam Railway are wishing that they’d been offered this first? It would be a great fit you’d have thought.

 

[james_the_xv]

This still hasn’t really answered the question of why WB have chosen to purchase/lease 4920 and ship the loco halfway around the world vs commissioning a full scale static model. Surely a fibreglass/aluminium model would be much more cost effective, easier to repair if damaged, and would be a lot easier to dispose of once surplus to requirements?

 

[Alanko]

Maybe they want to make accurate fibreglass clones at their leisure, using the Hall as a pattern?

I still can't get onboard with the idea that Warner Brothers might do something nefarious with the loco when they are finished with it, or that they might start hoovering up GWR locos at every turn. As far as I see it, it will be repainted, have close attention paid to it and might even end up inside and undercover; three things that didn't happen while it was languishing previously.

It seems like to some it would be better to leave locos in Barry Scrapyard condition, out in the elements, as long as the owner had a long term (and very probably delusional) plan to repaint them in authentic liveries, sort out new boilers and then make them pull exactingly prototypical consists at gala days.

 

[MarkyT]

I wonder if the Dartmouth Steam Railway are wishing that they’d been offered this first? It would be a great fit you’d have thought.

The various 8-coupled locos, slightly smaller-wheeled and lighter Manor and BR Standard 4 are still probably the better, more sure-footed and economical bet for routine operations in my opinion. The high-sided tender also makes operation in reverse difficult for sighting too. I wonder if Pitchford might plausibly go back on the mainline, as it did when based at Tyseley.

 

[eldomtom2]

This still hasn’t really answered the question of why WB have chosen to purchase/lease 4920 and ship the loco halfway around the world vs commissioning a full scale static model. Surely a fibreglass/aluminium model would be much more cost effective, easier to repair if damaged, and would be a lot easier to dispose of once surplus to requirements?

There is an aspect of "authenticity" that an actual loco would have as opposed to a fiberglass replica. I imagine the fact that it is not actually 5972 will be in very small print, if mentioned at all.

 

[MarkyT]

This still hasn’t really answered the question of why WB have chosen to purchase/lease 4920 and ship the loco halfway around the world vs commissioning a full scale static model. Surely a fibreglass/aluminium model would be much more cost effective, easier to repair if damaged, and would be a lot easier to dispose of once surplus to requirements?

The replicas, as bolted onto the Florida funicular ride, are pretty remarkable models, and probably quite expensive. Good weathering too! I'd guess a cosmetically restored real loco would probably retain a better resale value if kept in good condition. Shipping, especially TO the far east is probably fairly cheap to obtain.

 

[nanstallon]

I am getting worried that the Hall class may be extinct in running order, as they seem to be in demand as static exhibits for Harry Potter theme parks all over the world.

 

[Bessie]

I am getting worried that the Hall class may be extinct in running order, as they seem to be in demand as static exhibits for Harry Potter theme parks all over the world.

Don't worry - there are still plenty of Hall class locos to go round. Hagley Hall will hopefully be out on the SVR later this year. They do suffer as a class as being fairly heavy 4-6-0's for use on preserved lines versus say the Manor class plus they're not GWR royalty like the Kings and Castles.

 

[55003]

The restoration of Hagley Hall shows what could have been achieved with Dumbleton Hall if there had ever been some desire to see it steamed again.

 

[nanstallon]

The restoration of Hagley Hall shows what could have been achieved with Dumbleton Hall if there had ever been some desire to see it steamed again.

Having been one of the people who contributed every month to the restoration of Dumbleton Hall in the 80s, I feel very sad.

 

[Alanko]

I am getting worried that the Hall class may be extinct in running order, as they seem to be in demand as static exhibits for Harry Potter theme parks all over the world.

I don't see the risk. As long as there is interest in Harry Potter then these Halls are getting a regular inspection, lick of paint and dry storage indoors. This is something that well-meaning preservation groups can't always offer.

Dumbleton Hall lay dormant from 1999 onwards and seems to have spent time outside, looking pretty faded and neglected at Buckfastleigh. There might have been a group with plans to return her to traffic, but they had twenty years in which to achieve nothing. I gather in 2018 they finally found a place for it in the restoration queue.

 

[33101]

I just noticed this image on the US English version of the Japanese Wizarding World web site.

ユニバーサル・スタジオ・ジャパン｜USJ

異なる表情を持つさまざまなエリアは、感動がいっぱいの別世界。ハリウッドの超大作映画をテーマにした興奮のライドや人気キャラクターたちのショーなど、子どもから大人まで楽しめる、ワールドクラスのエンターテイメントを集めたテーマパーク。

www.usj.co.jp

Any idea if this is actually 4920, or is it a replica?
The attraction is shown as currently closed, so perhaps they're still working on it?

 

[eldomtom2]

A replica, I think it was there when the theme park area opened in 2014. 4920 is going to a separate attraction, a display of film props.

 

[33101]

A replica, I think it was there when the theme park area opened in 2014. 4920 is going to a separate attraction, a display of film props.

Ah, thanks for that. You'd think a replica loco would be about as good as a different loco of the same class at representing a film prop (which 4920 isn't, at least in the HP universe)?

 

[Towers]

Whatever that is, it looks pretty shabby & unloved in that pic!

 

[33101]

Whatever that is, it looks pretty shabby & unloved in that pic!

Perhaps, the Hogwarts line is about to get modernised by Prof B. Ching, so the steam fleet is looking suitably weathered?
Cue the arrival of a suitably liveried pacer...

 

[Alanko]

Whatever that is, it looks pretty shabby & unloved in that pic!

Like Dumbleton Hall then...

 

[MarkyT]

A replica, I think it was there when the theme park area opened in 2014. 4920 is going to a separate attraction, a display of film props.

A similar static replica is in one of the Florida Parks, and I'm sure it must share a lot of common elements with the moving replicas bolted onto the funicular ride between the two parks there. I believe 4920 will be exhibited indoors at the new attraction.