5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[37424]

Talking of catering, though, the MR article on them suggests they are considering making the Standard seating area in them (which is all tables except the priority seats) a sort of premium "Silver Standard" type thing with free refreshments.



They will, at least to start with, run on the Obans that don't carry a FW portion.

Wow that's a mind boggling concept charging a premium to sit in a 153

 

[Neptune]

From reading the article this morning it sounds more like a Standard Plus offering than premium. Free refreshments and the carpet and seat moquette will be different from the 156’s. Can’t see the point myself.

 

[Bletchleyite]

From reading the article this morning it sounds more like a Standard Plus offering than premium. Free refreshments and the carpet and seat moquette will be different from the 156’s. Can’t see the point myself.

I think proper 1st would be money for old rope on those lines with the tourists. I can see why they've done it in the 153s, though. A quirk of 156s is that the layout is 2 small windows at the end with a lot of wall, then 6 big picture windows, then 2 small ones again (I've long wondered why, as the spacing of those windows means they take up the space of a large one). Nobody is going to pay for a premium class on a scenic route with a window view like that. 153s (provided the seats are high enough) have a pretty good view due to the narrow pillars. So to put 1st or similar in 156s would require it being in the middle of the coach, which would be a bit weird.

It did make me giggle, though!

 

[37424]

I think its taking the mic quite frankly, 153 if anything are even noise'r than 156 and if you look down the carriage you will looking at a storage area I don't see anything premium about it, if anything I think I would want a reduction!

 

[ScotTrains]

Part of the franchise commitment was to have scenic trains in a 'sperate premium carriage' with tablecloths and breakfast, lunch and dinner hampers. The franchise commitment also mentions special events such as keynote speakers giving talks, whisky and food tasting events etc. It also states there should be Premium comfort seating that maximises passenger comfort.

Though not ideal, perhaps using the 153 to provide this franchise commitment is better than facing a fine by not providing anything.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Part of the franchise commitment was to have scenic trains in a 'sperate premium carriage' with tablecloths and breakfast, lunch and dinner hampers. The franchise commitment also mentions special events such as keynote speakers giving talks, whisky and food tasting events etc. It also states there should be Premium comfort seating that maximises passenger comfort.

Richmond seating <smirk>

They could at least have put Grammer IC3000s in!

 

[route101]

It is on mine that arrived today!

That was quick. It looks like there is a vinyl on the side, will that affect the view from the seats?

 

[fgwrich]

That was quick. It looks like there is a vinyl on the side, will that affect the view from the seats?

The contra-vision is only on the part where the cycle / ski racks are, thankfully.

 

[herb21]

Modern Railways reports the 153s will take tandems. So Oban is accessible to us. Rest of Scotland, still not possible. This matters when you have a disabled partner. Any ScotRail managers reading this, please can a 153 run to Inverness in traffic rather than ECS when you start running to Thurso. My partner would like us to do the Orkneys

I realise this may be a truly ridiculous idea, but if they run the 153's to Mallaig and Kyle, could you prehaps get to Thurso/Wick by taking the Mallaig train, the Armadale Ferry, cycling to Kyle, taking Inverness train, and then the Wick train.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I realise this may be a truly ridiculous idea, but if they run the 153's to Mallaig and Kyle, could you prehaps get to Thurso/Wick by taking the Mallaig train, the Armadale Ferry, cycling to Kyle, taking Inverness train, and then the Wick train.

Yes, but you couldn't do it in one day. The last Wick train departs Dingwall at 1905, so you'd need to arrive at 1550 which departs Kyle at 1346. The first arrival of the day into Mallaig from Glasgow is at 1334, which obviously isn't enough time to get to Kyle.

 

[herb21]

Yes, but you couldn't do it in one day. The last Wick train departs Dingwall at 1905, so you'd need to arrive at 1550 which departs Kyle at 1346. The first arrival of the day into Mallaig from Glasgow is at 1334, which obviously isn't enough time to get to Kyle.

Yeah, you would definetly need to take 2 days, which really does cut into any holiday if you are doing it both ways, and will rely on the scenic carriages being on the right trains.

 

[InOban]

Part of the franchise commitment was to have scenic trains in a 'sperate premium carriage' with tablecloths and breakfast, lunch and dinner hampers. The franchise commitment also mentions special events such as keynote speakers giving talks, whisky and food tasting events etc. It also states there should be Premium comfort seating that maximises passenger comfort.

Though not ideal, perhaps using the 153 to provide this franchise commitment is better than facing a fine by not providing anything.

The franchise commitment also specified 158s!

 

[Grumpy]

will be fun next summer as you can pretty much guarantee one of these is going to end up working on its own

If current loadings continue it might be all that is needed

 

[Bletchleyite]

The franchise commitment also specified 158s!

True. If they moved Inverness units over they already have a "First Class" area (i.e. a bit with a partition and antimacassars) which could have been used.

The problem with using the 153 for it is that cyclists will want to sit in view of their potentially very expensive steed but won't necessarily want the other services.

 

[fgwrich]

True. If they moved Inverness units over they already have a "First Class" area (i.e. a bit with a partition and antimacassars) which could have been used.

The problem with using the 153 for it is that cyclists will want to sit in view of their potentially very expensive steed but won't necessarily want the other services.

The former FC bit was removed during the "ScotRail" refurbishment. There's nothing to differentiate it anymore (other than the remains of the curtain rails left in the trim!), all standard class now - Though the Grammar seats do give a more "premium" feel over their Richmond seated cousins*

*Yes, I do actually like the Richmond seats except in ScotRails refurbished 158s, where they have moved the seats closer together.

 

[peteb]

I realise this may be a truly ridiculous idea, but if they run the 153's to Mallaig and Kyle, could you prehaps get to Thurso/Wick by taking the Mallaig train, the Armadale Ferry, cycling to Kyle, taking Inverness train, and then the Wick train.

Sounds a good idea: I've done that in the opposite direction. Maybe the timetables need reviewing?

Part of the franchise commitment was to have scenic trains in a 'sperate premium carriage' with tablecloths and breakfast, lunch and dinner hampers. The franchise commitment also mentions special events such as keynote speakers giving talks, whisky and food tasting events etc. It also states there should be Premium comfort seating that maximises passenger comfort.

Though not ideal, perhaps using the 153 to provide this franchise commitment is better than facing a fine by not providing anything.

Just as they did in the 1980s on the Kyle line with the former observation carriages: a nice cuppa, sandwiches, cake and a lady in tartan recounting history of the area and pointing out the sights. Amazing how things have (not) progressed so far in 40 years.

 

[pdeaves]

The problem with using the 153 for it is that cyclists will want to sit in view of their potentially very expensive steed but won't necessarily want the other services.

That may be part of the marketing ploy to get people to pay the premium. One of the benefits is to sit near the bike, oh and here's some other benefits too. No pay? No see cycle at all times.

 

[py_megapixel]

That may be part of the marketing ploy to get people to pay the premium. One of the benefits is to sit near the bike, oh and here's some other benefits too. No pay? No see cycle at all times.

But once cyclists realise this, I would not be surprised if they start trying to cram their bikes onto the 158 again instead, therefore defeating the whole purpose...

 

[43096]

But once cyclists realise this, I would not be surprised if they start trying to cram their bikes onto the 158 again instead, therefore defeating the whole purpose...

In which case chuck them off. If they can’t be bothered to use the dedicated accommodation provided at some cost for them, then they shouldn’t be on the train.

 

[py_megapixel]

In which case chuck them off. If they can’t be bothered to use the dedicated accommodation provided at some cost for them, then they shouldn’t be on the train.

Honestly it depends what "some cost" is.
A sensible charge to cover the cost of providing the space makes sense... however, forcing cyclists to also pay for fine dining doesn't make sense in the slightest...

 

[alangla]

will be fun next summer as you can pretty much guarantee one of these is going to end up working on its own

I’m wondering what will turn up at Anniesland first- one of these or an HST. 24 seat 153 would probably be overkill on the Anniesland line most of the time

 

[Killingworth]

Just out of curiosity, when will all 5 of these units be available for service? Until they are it's going to be more hit than miss to rely on them for any journey.

It seems a very long time since January 2018 when this project was first made public and 19th June 2018 when The Scotsman reported "Britain's first rail carriages reserved for bikes and outdoor equipment are to run on one of Scotland's busiest tourist lines from next summer." Even allowing for journalistic optimism 2 years to rebuild 5 coaches seems to indicate low priority.

 

[Neptune]

I’m wondering what will turn up at Anniesland first- one of these or an HST. 24 seat 153 would probably be overkill on the Anniesland line most of the time

A number of posters are suggesting that the 153's will turn up on services on their own but that cannot be the case legally.

They have no disabled accommodation therefore they have no derogation to run without a PRM fitted unit. If a 153 was all that was available for a service then the service would be cancelled.

 

[py_megapixel]

A number of posters are suggesting that the 153's will turn up on services on their own but that cannot be the case legally.

They have no disabled accommodation therefore they have no derogation to run without a PRM fitted unit. If a 153 was all that was available for a service then the service would be cancelled.

Speaking of PRM - do you know if the toilet has been retained, and if so has any work been done to it?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speaking of PRM - do you know if the toilet has been retained, and if so has any work been done to it?

Retained and fitted with retention tanks but not PRMised.

 

[47827]

A number of posters are suggesting that the 153's will turn up on services on their own but that cannot be the case legally.

They have no disabled accommodation therefore they have no derogation to run without a PRM fitted unit. If a 153 was all that was available for a service then the service would be cancelled.

You could probably see a rare scenario where there was only a suitable half of a 156 available and a 153 was attached to it to strengthen the set and offer a cab at both ends. That may have happened on odd occasions over the last 3 decades although can't recall any actual instances. But with PRM rules now it would require the half of the 156 on the set to be a PRM box ticker.

 

[takno]

You could probably see a rare scenario where there was only a suitable half of a 156 available and a 153 was attached to it to strengthen the set and offer a cab at both ends. That may have happened on odd occasions over the last 3 decades although can't recall any actual instances. But with PRM rules now it would require the half of the 156 on the set to be a PRM box ticker.

Will that even couple together?

 

[47827]

Will that even couple together?

I would hope so if the plan was having the 153s sandwiched between various 156 units on the booked formations. They have worked with everything between 150 and 158 in the sprinter family over the years as well as 170s sometimes in the West Mids.

 

[takno]

I would hope so if the plan was having the 153s sandwiched between various 156 units on the booked formations. They have worked with everything between 150 and 158 in the sprinter family over the years as well as 170s sometimes in the West Mids.

No question that both ends of the 153 will couple to the external ends of the 156s. I was just speculating on whether the internal couplings on the 156s are the same as the external ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Will that even couple together?

Yes, and it's been done before, however you need some sort of adapter to connect the manual wiring plug on the inner 156 end to the autocoupler on the 153. I've also heard of a 156-158 hybrid, but that requires a gangway adapter plate as well (same as the 3-car 158s formed of 1.5 2-car units).

Unless ScotRail have changed their 156 inner couplings to bolted bar couplers as some TOCs have?