92 stock ATO

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jd

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I know the 67ts is driven in manual in and out of the depot and sidings. Is this also the case for the 92ts, or do they drive themselves then?

Also, on Sundays, is it compulsary to drive in CM, or optional? I've read different sources which contradict each other on that...
 
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Tom

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Right,

On the LULcentral - ATO codes start when out of depot or sidings. Plus, it is optional to use Coded Manual if drivers would like to do so on Sunday's (I think Saturday's too).
 

jd

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Aren't there some problems with the ATO though, esp above ground? I heard somewhere that some parts, especially in the east, its not worth running in auto - they just use CM.
 
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Tom

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Yes, when trains are coming out of the pipe going EB at Stratford, trains have a tendancy to skid when it is wet.

Mind you, the ATO allows a more frequent service to be operated.
 

TomCrame

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tubechallenger said:
Yes, when trains are coming out of the pipe going EB at Stratford, trains have a tendancy to skid when it is wet.

Mind you, the ATO allows a more frequent service to be operated.
And WB too, there were a few incidents of technical SPADs approaching Stratford WB in wet conditions.
 

Harold

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i think the they put ATO on the central line in the tunnels becuase after what happened in 2001 (i think) when one of the motors on the 1992 stock fell off and caused the train to de-rail

i'm guessing, thats why they put ato on the 1992 as off that incident

correct me if i'm wrong tho


HBA135
 
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Tom

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I thought ATO was running before that? I thought it was introduced everywhere by January 2001.
 

ChristopherJ

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The 92 stock can be driven in Coded Manual EAST of Leytonstone and WEST of White City on Sundays, all other times the 92s should be driven in ATO unless there is a fault, authority from Wood Lane has to be given if a 92 needs to be driven in Coded Manual for another reason.

When inside a Depot on the Central Line there are no codes, the 92s are driven in Restricted Manual within depot areas.

There are quite a few problems with ATO in rainy conditions, Stratford (both roads) is common for skidding and wheel lock ups, I once heard a Train heading up the EB road approached the platform, applied the brakes and began to skid, the Train stopped... ...Only 9 cars past the platform! (so that's a whole Train and a bit more!)

ATO was running over the entire Central when Chancery Lane happened, AFAIK not only the Bolts holding the motors were the cause, the stress on the Trains Motors (blame ATO for it's rapid acceleration and braking) caused them to drop off too, now the 92 stock Motors have been slowed down and the running speed is now 85kph. (used to be near 110kph pre-Chancery Lane IIRC)
 

TomCrame

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tubechallenger said:
I thought ATO was running before that? I thought it was introduced everywhere by January 2001.
ATO was suspended WEA to EAB WB only until about a year ago, because of the possibility of a train stopping short but within the tolerance at EAB P5 and having the last set of doors off the platform.

Chancery Lane's impact on ATO was a Software change to the fleet restricting them to 85kph (from 100kph).
 

jd

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I don't see how having ATO would help solve the problems of trains giving birth to motors mid-journey though...
 
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Tom

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ATO makes a train go at 100% power. When a train is being driven manually, lets say on the Northern, its around 60% power. The train has more strain with ATO on.
 

Dave A

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Don't care if this has been answered but why I never saw this I'll never know

West Ruislip depot has no codes, except for the reception roads. As is White City. Hainault however is partially coded. The wash reception road is fully coded right up to the end of the move, which traverses the whole length of the depot into two coded sidings. Upon changing ends to stable the train the move is then in RM. Initially the wash was uncoded, but caused to many delays, especially in the peak. Also there are intermitent 100kph brake test codes on all stabling roads. Loughton and Woodford sidings, even though not depots as such are used to stable trains overnight. These are fully coded in both directions.

Watch out for my next site update to see this in action :P
 

Dave A

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tubechallenger said:
How boring - that can be made out from a Quail track diagram.
Yes. Well, I'm sure a lot of people don't know what a quack trail diagram is, like me :roll: :lol: ;)
 

evil_hippo

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jdan said:
I don't see how having ATO would help solve the problems of trains giving birth to motors mid-journey though...
Surely what is meant is that the aftermath of the incident gave an opportunity to fit ATO.
 

Dave A

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tubechallenger said:
Quail Track Diagrams show lines and special features on them, etc.
Yes, but that would take forever to look at every point and, oh never mind :roll: :P
 

Tom B

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But (as Tom C said before) ATO was in operation *way* before chancery lane - all that happened afterwards is they turned the wick down.
 
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Tom

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The ATO caused the trains to run at 100% power causing strain on the traction motors and bogies - the Chancery Lane incident showed this. Therefore, LU cut down the speed on the 92TS and I believe the 92TS now runs at 90% power with a lower speed limit.
 

TomCrame

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rbruce1314 said:
But surely if the end-aim is a certain number of TPO, this defeats the whole object :? :? :? :?
Yes, while delivering a certain frequency is the aim, delivering a certain frequency SAFELY is the ultimate aim. As it happens, the 100kph running didn't usually occur on the headway critical areas, and it wasn't unusual for trains to run early in those days.

The original specification for the project was to deliver 36tph, which has never been achieved. This was then revised to 33tph, which was for a while achieved but the limiting factor is the rolling stock availiability, not the performance and speed.

To clarify, 1992TS still doesn't use any coasting, only motoring and braking to achieve the required speed. In fact, in recent weeks the power supply to the line has recieved a limited upgrade to support the fleet's demands better.
 

Dave A

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tubechallenger said:
The ATO caused the trains to run at 100% power causing strain on the traction motors and bogies - the Chancery Lane incident showed this. Therefore, LU cut down the speed on the 92TS and I believe the 92TS now runs at 90% power with a lower speed limit.
This is, and isn't correct. The only difference between pre and post Chancery Lane is a command given to the ATO controller ( the computer that drives the train ) not to exceed 85kph. This command is given via the PACs at station platforms. The braking and acceleration profiles are just as intense as pre Chancery Lane. When the train is driven manually the driver must keep it below or at 85kph max - the train will accelerate up to 100kph if allowed to. In other words the train performs exactly the same - just as fast. :P
 
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Tom

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I have info that said that the power was SLIGHTLY reduced to reduce the strain on the traction motors.
 

Dave A

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tubechallenger said:
I have info that said that the power was SLIGHTLY reduced to reduce the strain on the traction motors.
Yes, and I know someone who is currently a 92 Stock operator on the Central Line :P ;)
 
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