A career as a signaller

[Tom Quinne]

While I broadly agree with your point. I think amando08 is part of the furture opportunities recruitment, in which case they will be being expected to apply for permanent roles. The LOM that has taken them on is just a formality in a way as I understand it.

I thought she was a relief on the East Midlands route?

 

[amanda08]

I’m not going to be applying, I think I’ve enough to deal with just trying to get through the training! And as LOM says, not something I’d feel comfortable with doing to my LOM. But there has been lots of encouragement to think about it, which got me thinking- hence my question.
Ive been looking forward to working in my Boxes and will just see where I’m at, a year or two from now.

 

[High Dyke]

I thought she was a relief on the East Midlands route?

You're right Tom. Another recruit to our esteemed ranks.

 

[waterlooroader]

So, my interview went ahead as planned for one of roles at the WMSC. I hope I covered everything and I believe that I was able to provide good, solid examples on the 8 NTS.

I guess it's just a waiting game now whilst everything happens behind the scenes. It goes without saying that I will be keeping everything, including my toes, crossed.

The panel were fantastic and I was made to feel at ease from the moment I walked in. If I can give one you one piece of advice, it would be to just be yourself and enjoy the process.

Same here, although as stated previously, my interview was up the road at New St PSB.

Felt it went well, I would echo the advice of Big Rob and others- just enjoy the ride, research your NTS examples (Best to try and get a couple for each one, as the wording of the question can potentially preclude an example) and don't get hung up on waiting around.

Now, time to forget about it until the phonecall from NR to say yes or no.

 

[Kraken]

Your LOM will be spending a lot of their budget training you as well as having to go through the long drawn out recruitment process before you started. If you do apply for another job and get it then he or she is straight back to square one again with nothing to show but a gap in the roster. I would think carefully before making a move not just because it is (in my biased opinion) a pretty dreadful thing to do to your LOM but also because, as you have seen from the replies above, the grass is not always greener elsewhere.. The ROCs are not going anywhere if you are worried about long term job security...

It really really annoys me that the trainers keep trying to temp new starts off to the ROCs when they are just a matter of days or weeks on the railway. It is happening far too often now. Some people will say you do not owe your LOM any loyalty but ultimately they have given you a bite at the cherry so it is pretty poor to repay them by sodding off somewhere else before you have even passed out. This paragraph is a general remark and not aimed specifically at you by the way!

This is really interesting - what’s in it for the trainers to try and get you to apply for ROC jobs? Or is that where most of the trainers have come from and they are biased?

 

[High Dyke]

This is really interesting - what’s in it for the trainers to try and get you to apply for ROC jobs? Or is that where most of the trainers have come from and they are biased?

Oddly enough recruitment can become a bit of a game between different management areas. Currently trainees for boxes in the East Midlands have to travel to a different area for their initial signaller training, and are therefore at risk of being pilfered to provide trained signallers in that area, rather than the area that recruited them.

LOM had it spot on with the comment

Some people will say you do not owe your LOM any loyalty but ultimately they have given you a bite at the cherry so it is pretty poor to repay them by sodding off somewhere else before you have even passed out.

 

[Javagem]

Thank you both.
I’m only week one at training school and am being encouraged to apply for a position at a roc. There are lots of things that greatly appeal about my future boxes, and a few things about the roc that appeal too. With zero experience in either, it’s hard to know which would be preferable!

Which ROC out of interest?

 

[amanda08]

Which ROC out of interest?

All or any lol

 

[LOM]

This is really interesting - what’s in it for the trainers to try and get you to apply for ROC jobs? Or is that where most of the trainers have come from and they are biased?

Without getting too specific most trainers come from a signaller, MOM or LOM background and many still have connections, friendships and loyalties to their old role or area. They might be asked by their friends in their old area to look out for bright and talented new recruits with potential and point them towards the shining lights of the ROC. They probably think they are doing their trainees a favour by encouraging them to immediately apply for a higher grade post in a ‘big’ box, with the potential for more excitement and more money.

The advantage for the area that manages to poaches these recruits is that they get a fully trained signaller straight out of school effectively for free as the original hiring LOM will have paid for the recruitment, the signalling course, food, accomodation, uniform and PPE out of their budget before the trainee leaves.

In some places it is a constant repeat cycle of recruiting, training then almost immediately losing the new starts to a ‘better’ area and starting again. It gets very tiresome for the LOMs in the ‘less glamorous’ areas.

Sorry if I sound like I have a bee in my bonnet about this but this is the voice of experience talking.

 

[Javagem]

Without getting too specific most trainers come from a signaller, MOM or LOM background and many still have connections, friendships and loyalties to their old role or area. They might be asked by their friends in their old area to look out for bright and talented new recruits with potential and point them towards the shining lights of the ROC. They probably think they are doing their trainees a favour by encouraging them to immediately apply for a higher grade post in a ‘big’ box, with the potential for more excitement and more money.

The advantage for the area that manages to poaches these recruits is that they get a fully trained signaller straight out of school effectively for free as the original hiring LOM will have paid for the recruitment, the signalling course, food, accomodation, uniform and PPE out of their budget before the trainee leaves.

In some places it is a constant repeat cycle of recruiting, training then almost immediately losing the new starts to a ‘better’ area and starting again. It gets very tiresome for the LOMs in the ‘less glamorous’ areas.

Sorry if I sound like I have a bee in my bonnet about this but this is the voice of experience talking.

That’s totally unfair, surely when this happens the appointing LOM should have his cost centre reimbursed by the ROC cost centre as they’ve never had the benefit of the trainee. Or better still all trainees costs should be centrally controlled by recruitment.

 

[Kraken]

Without getting too specific most trainers come from a signaller, MOM or LOM background and many still have connections, friendships and loyalties to their old role or area. They might be asked by their friends in their old area to look out for bright and talented new recruits with potential and point them towards the shining lights of the ROC. They probably think they are doing their trainees a favour by encouraging them to immediately apply for a higher grade post in a ‘big’ box, with the potential for more excitement and more money.

The advantage for the area that manages to poaches these recruits is that they get a fully trained signaller straight out of school effectively for free as the original hiring LOM will have paid for the recruitment, the signalling course, food, accomodation, uniform and PPE out of their budget before the trainee leaves.

In some places it is a constant repeat cycle of recruiting, training then almost immediately losing the new starts to a ‘better’ area and starting again. It gets very tiresome for the LOMs in the ‘less glamorous’ areas.

Sorry if I sound like I have a bee in my bonnet about this but this is the voice of experience talking.

I have to say it all sounds very mercenary! I’m surprised that Network Rail doesn’t have a policy to stop this happening if it’s as cutthroat as it sounds - say that you’re not permitted to apply for jobs within the first 18 months out of school or something. It seems a matter of just not being a arsehole to the LOM that recruited you really.

Oddly enough recruitment can become a bit of a game between different management areas. Currently trainees for boxes in the East Midlands have to travel to a different area for their initial signaller training, and are therefore at risk of being pilfered to provide trained signallers in that area, rather than the area that recruited them.

The politics starts early in this game it sounds like!

 

[LOM]

Also I do not mean to discourage anyone from applying for whatever job(s) they fancy. Once you have your sky blue polo shirt the world is your oyster and you can move anywhere you like. Just consider taking your time to get your feet under the desk first!

 

[Dave Tasty]

Just out of curiosity LOM does it say on your contract where you are being employed or is it a generic contract that says you are being taken on as a signaller?

 

[High Dyke]

I have to say it all sounds very mercenary! I’m surprised that Network Rail doesn’t have a policy to stop this happening if it’s as cutthroat as it sounds - say that you’re not permitted to apply for jobs within the first 18 months out of school or something. It seems a matter of just not being a arsehole to the LOM that recruited you really.

There used to be an 'understanding' that a new starter couldn't move for 12 months, but I've never seen that in writing. I've known a couple of new signallers over the years been given that reason for not to be moved. However, the problem of an unwritten agreement makes it difficult when a manager applies the principle, but the TU rep isn't able to advise their colleague how or why it exists.

 

[Kraken]

Also I do not mean to discourage anyone from applying for whatever job(s) they fancy. Once you have your sky blue polo shirt the world is your oyster and you can move anywhere you like. Just consider taking your time to get your feet under the desk first!

I think I’m going to be too busy figuring out how to do shift work for the first time in 10 years to be job hunting at the same time!

 

[LOM]

Just out of curiosity LOM does it say on your contract where you are being employed or is it a generic contract that says you are being taken on as a signaller?

I actually have no idea.. contracts are dealt with by the Onboarding team. Everyone is allocated to a unique position number on OrgPlus though which defines your role, location and grade.

 

[danners430]

thanks for your reply. It’s come back on my list now! (Very strange) and mine still says test complete from the 13/7

Just checking, have you clicked on the "full list" button? The list shown when you first logged in is an appended list of all your applications, past and present, and presented in an order that I have no clue about. It's possible that your application simply was further down the list for some time, and therefore not on the appended list.

 

[WL113]

I had an interview and I would say im reasonably young (22) there was some questions in regards to drinking habits etc (not a big drinker) obviously the drink limit on the railway is half the drink drive limit and I suppose the stigma with young people is we like to party!

The alcohol limit on the railway is a lot less than half the drink drive limit, Treat it as zero.

 

[BigRob21]

The alcohol limit on the railway is a lot less than half the drink drive limit, Treat it as zero.

Its times like this when I'm glad I don't drink at all.... In such a safety critical role, it just isn't worth it

 

[Tigerned371]

I’m not going to be applying, I think I’ve enough to deal with just trying to get through the training! And as LOM says, not something I’d feel comfortable with doing to my LOM. But there has been lots of encouragement to think about it, which got me thinking- hence my question.
Ive been looking forward to working in my Boxes and will just see where I’m at, a year or two from now.

They are very nice boxes. Two of us went snooping to see them all the other day as we are just awaiting start dates for 2 of the relief positions

 

[7Paul7]

To rephrase Amanda's question slightly if a ROC is where you are likely to end up due to working life of the local boxes in your areaare you better off going straight into one rather than getting used to working a single manned box then having to move. For clarity I'm through future opportunities so won't leave a hole to be back filled. The few replies here to the original question seem to suggest the transition into a ROC wasn't a positive experience

 

[Roadster 7]

They are very nice boxes. Two of us went snooping to see them all the other day as we are just awaiting start dates for 2 of the relief positions

Hi Tigerned371,
I am also going to be working as Oakham Relief, I'm a couple of weeks behind you as I was a reserve candidate.
I've just had my pre offer and that is all filled in and returned!
There certainly is some lovely locations. Manton Junction is one I've not seen yet so must go and have a look for it.

 

[Tom Quinne]

To rephrase Amanda's question slightly if a ROC is where you are likely to end up due to working life of the local boxes in your areaare you better off going straight into one rather than getting used to working a single manned box then having to move. For clarity I'm through future opportunities so won't leave a hole to be back filled. The few replies here to the original question seem to suggest the transition into a ROC wasn't a positive experience

If I could start again (minus the financial commitments, and 10 years sooner!) i would definitely work a single manned location, or a series of (ideal relief) before settling down the last last 25 years in a ROC.

Once your on a ROC you wont leave, pension wise, salary wise it’s just not worth it leaving to go to a single manned location.

Trainers at school do seem to be shinny, as in theyve got their Company ISO software update to the latest standard. So they probably still think in x years there’ll only be ROCs or Pebbles.

Hence why they try and get the new guys ROC fixated at a very early stage in their careers.

 

[Tigerned371]

Hi Tigerned371,
I am also going to be working as Oakham Relief, I'm a couple of weeks behind you as I was a reserve candidate.
I've just had my pre offer and that is all filled in and returned!
There certainly is some lovely locations. Manton Junction is one I've not seen yet so must go and have a look for it.

Hi Roadster 7. I believe all 4 of us are on here . Myself, Kraken and Kinglewood. I should hopefully have my start date by the end of today. Would be great if we all got on the same cours.

 

[LOM]

Once your on a ROC you wont leave, pension wise, salary wise it’s just not worth it leaving to go to a single manned location.

This is exactly right. Once you are installed in a ROC grade 8 or 9 *any* move to another job apart from to SSM or control is a significant pay cut. Great if you fancy working in one location and role for the rest of your career, less good if you get itchy feet after a few years.

 

[nom de guerre]

Once your on a ROC you wont leave, pension wise, salary wise it’s just not worth it leaving to go to a single manned location

Depends. I’m making (slightly) more now than I was in the ROC.

I reckon anything G7 and below can be equalled or bettered in some single manned jobs. Probably not G8 or G9 though.

 

[olilee2]

Now the long wait for the result of my feltham interview. Anyone else been interviewed for there?

 

[Tom Quinne]

Depends. I’m making (slightly) more now than I was in the ROC.

I reckon anything G7 and below can be equalled or bettered in some single manned jobs. Probably not G8 or G9 though.

Unfortunately on my route the ROC is the only show in town, only 22 year left....

 

[Tom Quinne]

Very strong rumours, may well be offfical comms from the union shortly regards the next pay award.

There won’t be one, as much as it pains me to say it - probably a good idea in the current climate where let’s face it the railway is one huge red target for serious cuts to funding.

Potentially cuts so large they haven’t been seen in 50 years are rumoured, unfortunately (I’ve many friends at TOCs) TOCs will be put under massive pressure to reduce costs, as their officially under Dft control, but how long before they come for us?

Obviously whether there are 100 trains or 2 trains they still need a body to signal them, and allow work to be carried out.

Could we see cutting of night turns for example, recruitment freeezes or even job cuts? I think the latter could be achieved by offering early retirement packages to those with enough time served perhaps.

Aside from Beeching has our grade ever had mass redundancies?

Sorry to be so negative, but I really fear the knives are out for the railway post C19.

 

[nom de guerre]

Now the long wait for the result of my feltham interview. Anyone else been interviewed for there?

A friend is being interviewed early next week.