A HST to be used in Mexico?

[Davester50]

One assumes that Mexico has standard gauge track, if not, new wheel sets will be required.

Tren Maya is being constructed as standard gauge.

I vaguely remember seeing something about European built locos being moved to North America, and while the track gauge was the same, there was a difference in wheel profile so they were moved by road in Europe.
Having Googled the Wikipedia, it seems it could well have been the Bombardier ALP-46 as they were moved by road to the port.
I don't know much about wheel profiles, so can't comment further!

 

[ac6000cw]

One assumes that Mexico has standard gauge track, if not, new wheel sets will be required.

Yes, it is a standard gauge country, and there is a fair amount of cross-border freight traffic to/from the USA. The recent merger of Canadian Pacific and KCS to form CPKC has created a freight railway company spanning Canada, USA and Mexico. There are two other major freight railway companies in the country, both majority Mexican owned, with Union Pacific having a minority stake in one of them.

 

[Western Sunset]

I bet the stock will arrive in Mexico, be unloaded from the ship, marshalled into a set/s and work fine straightaway.

Meanwhile, back in the UK, new stock lies in sidings for years due to numerous issues which are well documented...

The Good: Selling HSTs for further use
The Bad: Lack of sufficient operational stock in the UK
The Ugly: Procurement, construction and timely implementation of new UK stock

 

[montyburns56]

So the power units that were infamous for overheating are being sent to work in Mexico? Hmmmm....

 

[43096]

So the power units that were infamous for overheating are being sent to work in Mexico? Hmmmm....

They have had new engines and cooler groups since then, though...

 

[montyburns56]

They have had new engines and cooler groups since then, though...

Right, but did they totally fix the problem? Do HSTs still struggle in extreme temperatures?

Actually it has just struck that some modified versions were sent to Australia back in the day, so I guess they may be okay as long as they don't work them too hard. Perhaps the Mexican government should have bought them instead!

 

[AndrewE]

I wonder whether the introduction will fare better than it did in Scotland?

 

[Morpethcurve]

Right, but did they totally fix the problem? Do HSTs still struggle in extreme temperatures?

Actually it has just struck that some modified versions were sent to Australia back in the day, so I guess they may be okay as long as they don't work them too hard. Perhaps the Mexican government should have bought them instead!

XPTs were downrated to 2000 hp with more capable cooler groups etc.

 

[AdamWW]

Actually it has just struck that some modified versions were sent to Australia back in the day, so I guess they may be okay as long as they don't work them too hard. Perhaps the Mexican government should have bought them instead!

I believe they weren't "sent" - they were built in Australis under license and to a rather modified design (the power cars aren't even the same length as an HST power car).

I wonder whether the introduction will fare better than it did in Scotland?

Quite.

 

[43096]

I believe they weren't "sent" - they were built in Australis under license and to a rather modified design (the power cars aren't even the same length as an HST power car).

Correct. They were built in Australia either by Comeng or ABB. Major equipment was, however, exported from the UK, including engines (Paxman), electrical equipment (Brush) and cooler groups (Serck). The replacement VP185 engines were also UK exports.

 

[TomG]

More than plans, large sections have already been built and track laid.

Really?

It was quite a while (years ago) when I read the article which mentioned it.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Really?

It was quite a while (years ago) when I read the article which mentioned it.

Yes. I was driven along the road from El Tintal to Valladolid (c 50 miles) a couple of months ago. The track runs parallel to it, and the formation looked complete for the majority of it, with a lot of track laid, and stations under construction.

 

[stuu]

Really?

It was quite a while (years ago) when I read the article which mentioned it.

Yes. Alstom are providing electrification and trains so not sure where the HSTs fit in:

 

[popeter45]

as its only 1 trainset worth of carriages shipped wonder if its not for passenger use?, maybe plan is to use it as a measurment train?

 

[trebor79]

as its only 1 trainset worth of carriages shipped wonder if its not for passenger use?, maybe plan is to use it as a measurment train?

Wasn't it speculated/stated earlier in the thread that it's for moving work parties around the line?

 

[43096]

Wasn't it speculated/stated earlier in the thread that it's for moving work parties around the line?

There has been nothing yet except speculation.

 

[stuu]

A bit of research shows these are going to the "Corredor Interoceánico" which is a different project, rehabilitating the line which crosses Mexico at the narrowest point, between Coatzacoalcos and Salina Cruz.

Thread about it here, in Spanish, most of which is no more informed than the average thread on any other Internet forum:

ISTMO DE TEHUANTEPEC | Corredor Interoceánico

Corredor Interoceanico del Istmo de Tehuantepec https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/cartera/economia/hacienda-publica-en-dof-la-creacion-del-corredor-interoceanico-del-istmo-de

www.skyscrapercity.com

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

British HSTs among fleets finding new homes in Mexico

MEXICO: Redundant UK inter-city diesel trains and two tram-trains have been acquired by the Mexican navy, according to local sources.

www.railwaygazette.com

MEXICO: Redundant UK inter-city diesel trains and two tram-trains have been acquired by the Mexican navy, according to local sources.

Three withdrawn ex-British Rail IC125 High Speed Train diesel power cars and 11 MkIII coaches were shipped from Great Yarmouth in the UK onboard the BBC Arkhangelsk on August 9; the ship called at Castellón in Spain on August 16, and in late August was crossing the Atlantic towards Corpus Christi in Texas.

According to sources in Mexico, the vehicles have been acquired from UK leasing company Angel Trains by Ferrocarril del Istmo de Tehuantepec. The navy-owned company owns the trans-isthmus rail corridor linking the Pacific and Gulf of Mexico which is being rehabilitated under Tren Interoceánico programme. The operator has been seeking rolling stock for use on planned passenger services.

Angel Trains told Railway Gazette International that it would not comment on a commercial matter.

Meanwhile, on August 13 Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador attended the unveiling of the first freight locomotive for Tren Interoceánico project. The ex-Union Pacific SD70M was manufactured by EMD in 2001.

The President said Tren Interoceánico operations would start in September.

 

[aem7ac]

British HSTs among fleets finding new homes in Mexico

MEXICO: Redundant UK inter-city diesel trains and two tram-trains have been acquired by the Mexican navy, according to local sources.

www.railwaygazette.com

Certainly will be an interesting mix on this line, as US-based Railway Excursion Management Company has stated they are providing up to 12 passenger cars (4 of these have been confirmed so far as a trio of former Amtrak Amfleet I coaches along with a 1950s dome lounge car) and 2 locomotives. Wonder how they'll handle the differences between 3 vastly different types of rolling stock. I presume there may be a need for multiple platforms of different height and track clearance at each station.

 

[AdamWW]

Wonder how they'll handle the differences between 3 vastly different types of rolling stock. I presume there may be a need for multiple platforms of different height and track clearance at each station.

Not necessarily.

In Canada VIA happily run UK and North American loading gauge coaches not only through the same stations but (bizarrely) in the same train.

The UK sized coaches cope fine both with low platforms (thanks to built-in steps that fold down as required) and with high platforms (with a simple "ramp" - it's level but I'm not sure what else to call it - a gangway? - across the considerable gap).
Of course it does require sufficient staff to put the ramps out but if you don't have any high level platforms it isn't a problem.

The UK loading gauge coaches are actually better at low platforms because the steps go all the way down to platform level whereas the Canadian ones have a bit of a step up to the lowest step.

It would in any case by nice to see passenger rail returning to Mexico.

Edited to add: I've just seen that the article says that they expect to start operations "In September". Though to be fair they don't say which September.

 

[aem7ac]

Not necessarily.

In Canada VIA happily run UK and North American loading gauge coaches not only through the same stations but (bizarrely) in the same train.

The UK sized coaches cope fine both with low platforms (thanks to built-in steps that fold down as required) and with high platforms (with a simple "ramp" - it's level but I'm not sure what else to call it - a gangway? - across the considerable gap).
Of course it does require sufficient staff to put the ramps out but if you don't have any high level platforms it isn't a problem.

The UK loading gauge coaches are actually better at low platforms because the steps go all the way down to platform level whereas the Canadian ones have a bit of a step up to the lowest step.

It would in any case by nice to see passenger rail returning to Mexico.

Edited to add: I've just seen that the article says that they expect to start operations "In September". Though to be fair they don't say which September.

Fair point, although I'd imagine the Renaissance Mk4-based cars had their stairs added after they were sold for service in Canada. No telling if the same modifications will be made for service in Mexico - the standards there are quite different. I imagine the Stadler CityLinks also mentioned in the article also pose a challenge, as they seem to accommodate low platform boarding only. Time will tell.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

I wonder if they originally wanted to buy the XPTs from Australia, which are wider than UK stock. The XPTs were supposed to be withdrawn this year, but will be hanging on because the replacements built by CAF are delayed.

 

[AdamWW]

I wonder if they originally wanted to buy the XPTs from Australia, which are wider than UK stock. The XPTs were supposed to be withdrawn this year, but will be hanging on because the replacements built by CAF are delayed.

They might take to the weather better too.

There is the intriguing thought that they might run the HSTs with just one power car and turn the train at the ends in true North American style.

Though that means even less resilience.

I can imagine any attempt to run an HST in Mexico might result in ditching the power cars and just using the coaches. I would have thought that locomotives would be somewhat easier to come by than passenger stock.

 

[aem7ac]

They might take to the weather better too.

There is the intriguing thought that they might run the HSTs with just one power car and turn the train at the ends in true North American style.

Though that means even less resilience.

I can imagine any attempt to run an HST in Mexico might result in ditching the power cars and just using the coaches. I would have thought that locomotives would be somewhat easier to come by than passenger stock.

Depends upon the train heating. Likely would require an expensive effort to convert the coaches to 480V HEP.

Additionally, I’d think the odd number of power cars being sent means one is probably a spares donor. I doubt they’d run them in a configuration that’s not top and tail, like they’re designed to.

 

[AdamWW]

Depends upon the train heating. Likely would require an expensive effort to convert the coaches to 480V HEP.

True. Or possibly a less expensive effort to provide a generator car.
Of course train heat isn't going to be an issue at least in the summer. It wil be the air conditioning they need...and I wonder how well it would cope...

Additionally, I’d think the odd number of power cars being sent means one is probably a spares donor. I doubt they’d run them in a configuration that’s not top and tail, like they’re designed to.

Me too, or at least just to have a back-up power car.

I don't think (if they end up running them at all) they would run them with a single power car either but it's an amusing thought.

 

[ac6000cw]

Additionally, I’d think the odd number of power cars being sent means one is probably a spares donor. I doubt they’d run them in a configuration that’s not top and tail, like they’re designed to.

That was my take on it too.

Depends upon the train heating. Likely would require an expensive effort to convert the coaches to 480V HEP.

...although, being HST trailer cars, at least they use (nominal) 415V 3-phase ETS/HEP to start with. Bigger issue with loco-hauling them would probably be couplings and maybe the twin-pipe air-brakes.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm very amused at the idea of running HSTs in extreme humidity. This will be a disaster, and a funny one too.

 

[43096]

I'm very amused at the idea of running HSTs in extreme humidity. This will be a disaster, and a funny one too.

I assume you have long engineering expertise on the HST fleet, then?

 

[AlterEgo]

I assume you have long engineering expertise on the HST fleet, then?

Sorry I didn’t realise you had to be properly credentialed to post on the enthusiast rail forum.

 

[aem7ac]

Just found this article which seemingly confirms the initial reports that the HSTs are headed for Tren Maya and not Tren Interoceánico. An included powerpoint slide says they'll be based out of Campeche. Wonder what their ultimate use will be considering Tren Maya already possesses a fleet of at least 32 new Alstom X'Trapolis electro-diesel and full diesel multiple units.

Thought I’d post an additional update here, which I also posted in the original thread:
The PowerPoint slide in the article says this equipment arrived in Mexico on a ship called the All Moon on 31 August. The equipment seen leaving the UK has not arrived in Mexico yet, and was on the BBC Arkhangelsk. This appears to possibly be an earlier shipment which was unreported as leaving the UK. There is apparently no ship named “All Moon” recorded as sailing though, so there is a chance this is a mistake on the Mexican government’s part.