A lifeline for Pilning?

[John R]

Glos CCC has announced that it has signed a non-binding Heads of Terms agreement to pursue a development near Pilning to replace the current ground in central Bristol. Interestingly it states:-

It is also less than a mile from Pilning railway station (which would require updating).

Well, that's an understatement, and clearly as well as "updating" it would need a meaningful increase in service from the current 2pw in one direction only to justify any investment in the station. Given the number of days when cricket will actually be played at the new stadium is that realistic? Maybe if Gloucestershire had a Hundred team it might, as I gather at Glamorgan they get huge crowds whereas other matches are much more sparsely attended.

Aside from the cricket potential, it has struck me for some time that with the continued expansion of the huge industrial site which is at its closest half a mile from the station, there has to come a time when it will be noticed that Pilning has potential to serve that development too. (Having said that, 6 years after the motorway junction to the site was completed, it's still not open, so maybe I am being far too optimistic!)

GCCC signs non-binding Heads of Terms to explore land for potential development | News | Gloucestershire Cricket

www.gloscricket.co.uk

Gloucestershire County Cricket Club has today announced the signing of a non-binding Heads of Terms agreement which will enable it to explore an area of land for potential development of a new home for the Club.

The Club first announced its intention to explore alternative sites for a possible relocation in December 2023. Today’s announcement does not tie the Club into a legal arrangement but maintains momentum on productive conversations that have taken place over a number of months.

The site in question – Swanmoor Stoke – is situated near landmarks such as The Wave, Bristol Golf Club and Wild Place Project in South Gloucestershire and is less than a mile from both Junction 17 of the M5 and the proposed new junction off the M49. It is also less than a mile from Pilning railway station (which would require updating). The wider area has undergone material residential development of late and more is planned.

 

[Zomboid]

Stadiums on their own don't justify anything being done to a station. The kind of money it would cost to "update" Piling (ie build a new station) means it needs to have worthwhile traffic every day of the year, not just the 30-40 days when there's a big event of some sort going on.

 

[lachlan]

Rather than upgrading the current station it would he more useful to relocate it to be nearer to Pilning itself, along with a cycle and walking trail to Severn Beach.

Obviously only if the new Caridff-Bristol services were added or new stops were added to existing services.

 

[John R]

Stadiums on their own don't justify anything being done to a station.

Exactly, and I made that point.

Given the number of days when cricket will actually be played at the new stadium is that realistic?

 

[cle]

Green Park is the blueprint (it came later after 1000s of residences, not the Madejski...), so they should become a landlord and build apartments... then the rail service will follow.

 

[Brubulus]

There's already the wave, an artificial surfing site, about a mile from Pilning station, which is a substantial leisure traffic generator.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Severn Beach serves Pilning just as well as Pilning does. I'm not convinced there's anything sensible to do to Pilning station bar close it.

 

[John R]

Severn Beach serves Pilning just as well as Pilning does. I'm not convinced there's anything sensible to do to Pilning station bar close it.

Severn Beach is 45 minutes from Bristol Temple Meads. If you want to commute to the industrial park (or attend a match) from South Wales, the additional journey time compared to a service stopping at Pilning would be huge. And whilst that's the extreme case, a station at Pilning would in many cases be much faster for journeys from a wide area.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Stadiums on their own don't justify anything being done to a station. The kind of money it would cost to "update" Piling (ie build a new station) means it needs to have worthwhile traffic every day of the year, not just the 30-40 days when there's a big event of some sort going on.

Surely it depends on how much the cricket club pays to upgrade the station,

 

[Zomboid]

Surely it depends on how much the cricket club pays to upgrade the station,

Unless there's some meaningful day to day demand that would just saddle the railway with the liability of a station that doesn't serve much purpose

 

[Brubulus]

Unless there's some meaningful day to day demand that would just saddle the railway with the liability of a station that doesn't serve much purpose

There is, the wave is a busy site with a surprising amount of demand from London, since it's currently the nearest artificial surfing centre to London.

 

[Severnia333]

Rather than upgrading the current station it would he more useful to relocate it to be nearer to Pilning itself, along with a cycle and walking trail to Severn Beach.

Obviously only if the new Caridff-Bristol services were added or new stops were added to existing services.

Yes indeed, about a mile outside the village.

A Newport-Temple Meads stopper would be good get additional stops on the suburban Bristol stations.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Unless there's some meaningful day to day demand that would just saddle the railway with the liability of a station that doesn't serve much purpose

Not necessarily - e.g. Newbury Racecourse is useful because it is reasonably close to plenty of residential estates too. The Greater Bristol area needs housing and concise developments that blend into the South Gloucs countryside better (in contrast to the sprawling suburban horrors of Sadly Broke and Stoke Gifford) around existing stations is a smart place to do that.

 

[Zomboid]

But that's the point - Newbury Racecourse is useful because it serves housing as well as the race course - it's also already there. Pilning doesn't presently serve anything much (accepting that there is The Wave within about a mile, but I'm not sure that is going to do much on its own). If/when the area around there is developed to give it more than a cricket stadium then it may justify investment in the station.

 

[cjw714]

Surely it depends on how much the cricket club pays to upgrade the station,

Unless there's some meaningful day to day demand that would just saddle the railway with the liability of a station that doesn't serve much purpose

If the cricket club have any sense they won't be building just a cricket stadium. Most modern stadia are designed with other facilities eg hotels, conference facilities that can be used all-year round. Whether the number of non-cricket users would be enough to justify re-building Pilning station is another question.

 

[John R]

But that's the point - Newbury Racecourse is useful because it serves housing as well as the race course - it's also already there. Pilning doesn't presently serve anything much (accepting that there is The Wave within about a mile, but I'm not sure that is going to do much on its own). If/when the area around there is developed to give it more than a cricket stadium then it may justify investment in the station.

As I said in my OP, there is a huge distribution centre less than a mile away, which is now a major employment centre.

 

[Zomboid]

In a straight line yes, but that's a trek across fields, and well over a mile by roads without pavements.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a straight line yes, but that's a trek across fields, and well over a mile by roads without pavements.

Again, the best way to connect this to rail would be a shuttle bus service to Severn Beach. That also covers a wider area of Bristol for people to reach it than Pilning does - people aren't largely commuting from Temple Meads. A very common "rail-brain" error is to assume journeys are mostly from city centre to city centre - they aren't, they are mostly suburb to city centre, or in this case suburb to place of employment. Most people don't live in city centres.

 

[John R]

In a straight line yes, but that's a trek across fields, and well over a mile by roads without pavements.

It is possible to build footpaths. A council looking to offer sustainable travel options for commuters to a large industrial park might conceivably consider that.

 

[Zomboid]

Again, the best way to connect this to rail would be a shuttle bus service to Severn Beach. That also covers a wider area of Bristol for people to reach it than Pilning does - people aren't largely commuting from Temple Meads. A very common "rail-brain" error is to assume journeys are mostly from city centre to city centre - they aren't, they are mostly suburb to city centre, or in this case suburb to place of employment. Most people don't live in city centres.

I suppose a counter to that would be how much employment traffic to the Severn Beach area is from the Caldicot (STJ) & Newport area? None of that is going to go into Temple Meads and back out. And is there enough of it to justify doing anything to Pilning?

It is possible to build footpaths. A council looking to offer sustainable travel options for commuters to a large industrial park might conceivably consider that.

That kind of thing would clearly be necessary if Pilning is to get the full on rebuild that it would need (and an entrance on the south side). But even then, the Tesco distribution centre is half a mile in a straight line, and everything else in the area considerably more than that.

 

[John R]

Again, the best way to connect this to rail would be a shuttle bus service to Severn Beach. That also covers a wider area of Bristol for people to reach it than Pilning does - people aren't largely commuting from Temple Meads. A very common "rail-brain" error is to assume journeys are mostly from city centre to city centre - they aren't, they are mostly suburb to city centre, or in this case suburb to place of employment. Most people don't live in city centres.

But it doesn’t cover the north of Bristol. For anyone for whom the most convenient station is Filton Abbey Wood, Ashley Down, Patchway, let alone any commuters from Wales, it would be a deeply unattractive option. Whereas a direct fast train to Pilning and a 15 minute walk would be much more likely to encourage modal shift. Similarly from Parkway albeit with a change at Abbey Wood.

 

[zwk500]

Again, the best way to connect this to rail would be a shuttle bus service to Severn Beach. That also covers a wider area of Bristol for people to reach it than Pilning does - people aren't largely commuting from Temple Meads. A very common "rail-brain" error is to assume journeys are mostly from city centre to city centre - they aren't, they are mostly suburb to city centre, or in this case suburb to place of employment. Most people don't live in city centres.

The best way to connect it is a shuttle bus from Parkway, as it has a far better service than Severn Beach.

Pilning station is also a target for WECA's rail plans, although IMO it will need a B/EMU to be able to serve the station on a Bristol-Cardiff local without knackering capacity too badly, starting from a stand at the foot of the bank. Although it might get away with it, as the Tunnel forms a single headway section that is longer than the headway from Patchway to the Tunnel. It may also need a rejig of the loops to juggle freight, the new stop, and fast passenger traffic.
In terms of the market, it'd need major development infilling between Severn Beach and Pilning to make it viable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But it doesn’t cover the north of Bristol. For anyone for whom the most convenient station is Filton Abbey Wood, Ashley Down, Patchway, let alone any commuters from Wales, it would be a deeply unattractive option. Whereas a direct fast train to Pilning and a 15 minute walk would be much more likely to encourage modal shift. Similarly from Parkway albeit with a change at Abbey Wood.

But then we get down to "you can't have direct trains from everywhere to everywhere", and paths on the mainline are at a premium.

 

[The exile]

The only real justification for massive investment in Pilning station would be large scale development round the current site (or moving it closer to the village and truncating the Severn Beach line at Avonmouth). It’s very low-lying, wet land, which is not ideal for residential development (but presumably, being alluvial is good for growing crops!)

 

[lachlan]

The best way to connect it is a shuttle bus from Parkway, as it has a far better service than Severn Beach.

Pilning station is also a target for WECA's rail plans, although IMO it will need a B/EMU to be able to serve the station on a Bristol-Cardiff local without knackering capacity too badly, starting from a stand at the foot of the bank. Although it might get away with it, as the Tunnel forms a single headway section that is longer than the headway from Patchway to the Tunnel. It may also need a rejig of the loops to juggle freight, the new stop, and fast passenger traffic.
In terms of the market, it'd need major development infilling between Severn Beach and Pilning to make it viable.

There is a bus from Parkway to Severn Beach but it takes an hour and only runs once an hour.

Perhaps if the motorway junction was opened and a link road built, a more direct service could be introduced.

However I still can't see it being widely used - in a car the journey is 25 minutes. I can't see anyone doing a multi-leg commute due to the journey time.

What would be more realistic is a proper segregated cycle way from Pilning to the industrial estates and to Severn Beach station.

But then we get down to "you can't have direct trains from everywhere to everywhere", and paths on the mainline are at a premium.

I believe it is a stated aim to run an all-stops service from Bristol to Cardiff. This would connect all these stops.

 

[ScotGG]

Build a ton of new homes around it. Bristol badly needs them and it supports the station rebuild cost

Again, the best way to connect this to rail would be a shuttle bus service to Severn Beach. That also covers a wider area of Bristol for people to reach it than Pilning does - people aren't largely commuting from Temple Meads. A very common "rail-brain" error is to assume journeys are mostly from city centre to city centre - they aren't, they are mostly suburb to city centre, or in this case suburb to place of employment. Most people don't live in city centres.

True but massive new housing is planned around Temple Meads with some already built. Huge scope for new homes there and around Piling station and we certainly need it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

But that's the point - Newbury Racecourse is useful because it serves housing as well as the race course - it's also already there. Pilning doesn't presently serve anything much (accepting that there is The Wave within about a mile, but I'm not sure that is going to do much on its own). If/when the area around there is developed to give it more than a cricket stadium then it may justify investment in the station.

Newbury Racecourse historically only had a service on race days; it now has an hourly all day every day service - as a direct result of the developments within the immediate area.

If this new stadium at Pilning is tied in with housing, there is no reason at all why it could not become a similarly successful station.

I agree that a huge upgrade for just 40 or so days a year of stadium use would be difficult to justify unless it was paid for externally, but stadiums are increasingly being built with conference venues included so it's quite feasible that there would be enough demand to justify upgrading it even without housing.

 

[AlastairFraser]

If the cricket club have any sense they won't be building just a cricket stadium. Most modern stadia are designed with other facilities eg hotels, conference facilities that can be used all-year round. Whether the number of non-cricket users would be enough to justify re-building Pilning station is another question.

I think a conference centre would bring in some additional users to Pilning, but possibly not enough.

Newbury Racecourse historically only had a service on race days; it now has an hourly all day every day service - as a direct result of the developments within the immediate area.

If this new stadium at Pilning is tied in with housing, there is no reason at all why it could not become a similarly successful station.

I agree that a huge upgrade for just 40 or so days a year of stadium use would be difficult to justify unless it was paid for externally, but stadiums are increasingly being built with conference venues included so it's quite feasible that there would be enough demand to justify upgrading it even without housing.

Precisely, it would be a great place to build a garden village around the existing one, especially if they build a link road to the eastern end of that M49 junction that needs connecting at the western end pronto!

 

[contrex]

Not necessarily - e.g. Newbury Racecourse is useful because it is reasonably close to plenty of residential estates too. The Greater Bristol area needs housing and concise developments that blend into the South Gloucs countryside better (in contrast to the sprawling suburban horrors of Sadly Broke and Stoke Gifford) around existing stations is a smart place to do that.

My wife and I go up to Cribbs Causeway on Metrobuses once or twice a month on our bus passes and I need counselling to cope with the horror of the sight of Bradley Stoke and its vicinity. In fact ring-road Bristol is really horrible generally.

 

[Snow1964]

The Bristol area doesn't have a very good record of making or keeping stations near big sporting events stadiums suitable for crowds.

The current cricket ground is near to (newly reopened) Ashley Downs, on site of former Ashley Hill station, but 2 new platforms are shorter than the 4 former platforms.

Parson Street (current nearest station to Footballs Ashton Gate) was rebuilt in 1930s with 2 islands (4 platform faces) over 200m long, but only 3 are in use for less than half their length.

The new Brabazon venue (the large concert area in former airplane assembly building) is getting 2 platforms, but not long enough (at least 165m) to take 8car EMUs or 6car (23m) DMUs to clear homebound crowds.

The only Bristol area suburban station that seems to have retained a decent platform length is Keynsham (which got longer platforms to carry workers to the Fry's chocolate factory), factory is now replaced by Chocolate quarter residential estate. Virtually every other station has had platforms shortened to around 120-125m (which stops 2x 3car 23m DMUs being used at peak times)

I would therefore be very surprised if Pilning is rebuilt to handle large event crowds.