A little question about mileposts.

[anthonycutt]

After travelling on trains for eleven years, it's hard to believe I've only just noticed there are mile posts! I've recently purchased some track diagram books so I've started to take a closer look at the tracks themselves. Anyway here's my question:
Travelling from Sheffield to Manchester today, I noticed that the mile posts go up to 180 (from St Pancras) as you travel towards Manchester but just after Ryder Brow, it changes to 46 miles (from Liverpool Central). I was wondering why the posts count up from Liverpool & not Manchester Picc.
Can anyone help me?

 

[driver9000]

Possibly the original originating point of the route, or even where the headquarters of the company responsible for building the line were based.

Mileposts are also usually located on the Down side of the line.

 

[anthonycutt]

Possibly the original originating point of the route, or even where the headquarters of the company responsible for building the line were based.

Mileposts are also usually located on the Down side of the line.

I noticed that yeah. That's probably why I never noticed them before, I usally sit on the 'up' side because I prefer the scenery. (I've never been on the Settle-Carlisle but I can't imagine it being prettier than the Hope Valley line)

Another quick question: It's not sad to have caught a train from Manchester Vic to Leeds solely because I'd never caught a train from Manchester Vic before?

 

[Max]

Some of the mileposts can be quite random in terms of today's railways. For example, coming out of Whitby, the mileposts count down but continue through Gromsont not onto the present mainline, but down the present North Yorkshire Moors Railway towards Pickering. The same can be said for the bridge numbers. The mileposts change heading towards Middlesbrough.

 

[Guinness]

Good post, I've hunted for 30 minutes for an answer as I'm interested too!

The mileage from St. Pancras ends just after Brinnington where the old Cheshire Lines Committee (CLC) line to Cheadle Heath and Manchester Central used to connect to which was built in 1880. Usually the important mainline routes to London (ala WCML, MML, ex-GC, ECML) takes priority in routes all the way to the terminus which is Manchester Piccadilly (Or London Road as it was known then) but I presume the CLC mileage took over here to avoid confusion with the Midland Branch that also went via Woodley and Hyde or possibly for ownership reasons. Another reason for changing over to CLC mileage was probably to avoid confusion with today's WCML to Euston at Manchester Piccadilly.

North of Brinnington, the line now with the CLC Mileage (from Liverpool Central contiunes for a few miles until it stops at the Ashburys Station at Mileage 46.24 where the line joins onto the present day electrified line to Guide Bridge and Glossop. The reason the CLC Mileage from Liverpool doesn't continue onwards to Manchester is because the Guide Bridge and Glossop line was built in 1867, 12 years before the CLC line and thus Mileage system reached Manchester. CLC shared tracks and access into Manchester Piccadilly from Ashburys so had no right to change the mileage system that was already in place. See a map of our good friends wikipedia map here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Midland_to_Manchester.jpg

Hopefully this gets back to your original post regarding the direction of the Mileage. In short it counts up from Liverpool because the company that created the line and mileage, Cheshire Lines Committee only owned the line up to Ashburys and in track ownership terms never reached Manchester!

Although this post seems a bit long winded - I hope it helps!

 

[anthonycutt]

Although this post seems a bit long winded - I hope it helps!

That's a cracking answer. Cheers! It seems to me that if CLC was still in charge, Manchester would have twice the service we have now.

I got a 'consultation' about the Manc congestion charge last week. They want to build more Metrolink. I'd gladly pay them a congestion charge to NOT build any more of that pathetic excuse for public transport. And I don't even drive!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Y'know, I swear that since I've been travelling to & from Manchester, Bredbury, Brinnington, Reddish North & Ryder Brow have switched places!

 

[Guinness]

Some of the mileposts can be quite random in terms of today's railways. For example, coming out of Whitby, the mileposts count down but continue through Gromsont not onto the present mainline, but down the present North Yorkshire Moors Railway towards Pickering. The same can be said for the bridge numbers. The mileposts change heading towards Middlesbrough.

Probably because the mileage system hasn't been properly updated since Beeching Cuts. For example, you'll go along a line and come to Mileage post 52 and the next been post 23, somewhere between those two posts was a COM (Change of Mileage) where an old line used to join and exist, see my previous post about Brinnington.

FWIW, on the GCR where I volunteer we still use the old London Extension Mileage and Bridge numbers. It's better then starting a completely new system as if the line extends in both directions from the mileage origin you would end up been in a situation of negative mileage!

 

[driver9000]

A good example of recurring Datum points (where mileage resets) is on the WCML from Goldbourne Jn mileage changes from 187m76c to 0m53c this remains until Preston centre of station 21m57c to 0m0c, it resets again at Lancaster from 20m78c to 0m0c and this remains until Carlisle centre station 69m09c to 0m0c. The lines that connect into the WCML at various points all have their own mileages, Springs Branch Jn is 12m54c the 0m point being at Huyton Jn, East Lancs Main starts at 0m0c from Farington Curve Jn and the Ormskirk line starts at 25m64c measured from Liverpool Exchange. At Farrington curve there is a 0m milepost between the Fast and Slow lines to denote the change, but can be misleading as it looks like it applies to all lines. On the north side of Preston the Fylde line to Blackpool begins at 0m (Blackpool Nth 17m49c, Blackpool Sth 20m), Morecambe line starts at 0m (Morecambe 2m12c), and Windermere line also starts at 0m from Oxenholme (Windermere 10m15c). Mileposts can be a big clue as to the original boundaries of the various pre-grouping railway companies they even produced mileposts in their own 'house' style (look at York station for a great pregrouping MP) although they are a little incorrect these days as the national network was remeasured several years ago, they still provide essential location markers for drivers when the need to give accurate information to signalboxes arises.