A sad day on Trainsplit, paper ticket option removed?

[Royston Vasey]

The London Bus example is disingenuous. Firstly the fare is fixed. Secondly it's meaningless until such time as contactless payment is fully accepted on the railway.

Finally l'm intrigued how exactly purchase from a station ticket office or machine would generate an e-ticket....

Some Greater Anglia machines now print out a slip of thermal paper with an Aztec code on them and appropriate wording

 

[Wolfie]

Some Greater Anglia machines now print out a slip of thermal paper with an Aztec code on them and appropriate wording

Interesting, thank you.

 

[JoshD14]

Although there may be an other options button on the forum site, it does bring up a good point that there, as far as I can find, is no option at all on the new beta, you are forced into e-tickets.

The beta site has had the same temporary measures applied to it as some of the other TS-powered booking sites e.g. trainsplit.com, that Adam mentioned. In normal times the other options button would show like below (screenshots from my local dev client):

 

[Wallsendmag]

A case for charging for ToD, perhaps, where other options are available and the retailer would make a loss on fulfilment?

Tod will be turning to PRT

 

[Adam Williams]

So the option has deliberately been removed on some booking attempts with the view of discouraging passenger usage of paper tickets? Is that correct? If so, that's outrageous.

I think your imagination is working overtime here.

ToD tickets are great for commiting fraud, you just print them off immediately after booking and away you go. There's no trace of how the CCST tickets that the TVM fulfils are utilised afterwards. None of the TVMs are universally verifying you own the card you present by asking for you to enter your PIN nowadays. Expensive period returns fulfilled as ToD can be re-sold. Pure profit if the payment card you used wasn't yours to begin with.

Retailers have a duty to try and be proactive when it comes to managing the risks presented by booking attempts using different fulfilment methods, and these risks can change over time. I didn't make this particular decision, but I can understand the reasoning behind the view that this was a reasonable short-term change to make, with a regrettable collateral impact on some customers.

 

[anothertyke]

Can you elaborate what you are referring to?

We have been through this before; e-tickets can be backed up to another device, they could be sent to a travel companion, they can optionally be printed.

What will happen is that barcode tickets will be the only option but the railway will print it for you on paper; this option is already enabled on some TVMs.

Unfortunately there isn't the option to print a pre- purchased e ticket.

5 percent? This must be mostly elderly people or people who have restricted mobility? Do you have any breakdown of the demographics? How many truly independent and mobile adults have got no smartphone?

In any case they will be more restricted in other areas, as e tickets are the norm for many events now.

Who said that?

Can I ask that when replying to anything, that you please use the quote button so it is clear what exactly you are replying to.

Quotes should not be made up .

If you choose not to have a printer and you choose not to have or rely on a smart phone, you may find that the cost of your choices might not be subsidised by everyone else indefinitely.

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This was my source. Of course a proportion of those with no smartphone will have a home computer and printer.

 

[GWVillager]

I think your imagination is working overtime here.

ToD tickets are great for commiting fraud, you just print them off immediately after booking and away you go. There's no trace of how the CCST tickets that the TVM fulfils are utilised afterwards. None of the TVMs are universally verifying you own the card you present by asking for you to enter your PIN nowadays. Expensive period returns fulfilled as ToD can be re-sold. Pure profit if the payment card you used wasn't yours to begin with.

Retailers have a duty to try and be proactive when it comes to managing the risks presented by booking attempts using different fulfilment methods, and these risks can change over time. I didn't make this particular decision, but I can understand the reasoning behind the view that this was a reasonable short-term change to make, with a regrettable collateral impact on some customers.

Actively discouraging passengers is not a reasonable change at all, it's bad business sense but, more to the point, unacceptable for an operator of a public good. It would be different if there were no other ways to reduce the risk of fraud, but there's an obvious solution here: check that the card inserted is the correct one (as was indeed done previously).

This very much feels like a case best resolved by the ticket vendor (almost always a TOC's TVM), rather than the retailer.

 

[Class800]

It’s not disingenuous at all. Some people, including older people, don’t have contactless payment options available to them. Or take the tube if you like. Paper tickets now vastly more expensive than using contactless or Oyster, but no problem at all. Where’s the “reasonable adjustment” there?

I think you should pay more to fulfil your tickets using an expensive, power sucking machine printing on dead trees. You might think it’s unfair but I don’t see any reason why it would discriminate against people on the basis or disability or age. Crosscountry already are charging more. No issue there either.


On some railways in Europe no ticket at all is necessary, just a code. You can write that down or memorise it.

The Equality Act does say adjustments for all protected characteristics including age need to be offered. It seems a lot of businesses are getting away with it.

 

[Adam Williams]

It would be different if there were no other ways to reduce the risk of fraud, but there's an obvious solution here: check that the card inserted is the correct one (as was indeed done previously).

Setting ToD to same-card was indeed attempted on a alternate brand but it's not as straightforward as you make out - you're pulling the rug on every customer that has gotten used to it being any-card and may not routinely carry around the card that they use for payment as a result anymore (or may e.g. routinely use virtual cards). They're then left in a worse position than if they'd been sold E-Tickets when they get to the station.

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Given there was no big conspiracy here, and I understand the booking sites have had this configuration changed since OP's initial post, I'd suggest that there is nothing more to discuss. The configuration change served its purpose, the negative impact on a minority of customers (and concerns around communication) has been noted and I'm sure will feed into decision-making if this ever happens again.