Abandoned Journey... Travelled 1 Stop But Got Charged For It!

[brettb]

Hi all,

I had an important appointment today so I left in plenty of time (and I mean plenty given I had to use Southern Rail).

So after boarding train #1 we discover it has a technical fault and after 30 minutes we're dumped on the platform of the first stop. There's the typical chaos on the platform then I realise train #2 is also cancelled (for a different reason). Since we only have an hourly service I realise I'm gonna miss my appointment. After all I should have been at my destination by then, but I only reached a couple of miles down the line. So I hopped on the train back to my starting point.

I go to the ticket office and ask for a refund. I'm granted this, but then the ticket office guy charges me for the 1 stop journey I made, even though this was a total waste of time and I never actually left the station platforms.

I got really angry because we're talking about £4 here (original ticket price was £13 for the full 1 hour journey).

Was ticket office guy right or was he just being a jobsworth? He told me to delay repay but I don't see how this will work given the rail company have no text box to write about complex situations.

This is my Southern Water sneaky overcharging farce all over again. I did win that one in the end so I guess I'll see how it goes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you abandon your journey and return to origin due to disruption a full refund is due. If the sum is worth it take it up with customer services for a refund. This is claimed from the point of sale (possibly via a form and paid later) and NOT via Delay Repay.

Sadly this appears to be yet another member of ticket office staff whose actions promote the abolition of ticket offices.

 

[Watershed]

If you abandon your journey due to delays (which includes returning to your origin station) then you are entitled to a full, fee-free refund under condition 30.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT):

Your Right to a Refund If Your Train Is Disrupted and You Choose Not to Travel
30.1 Conditions 30.1 –30.4 cover all Tickets other than Season Tickets, and also apply if you have begun your journey but are unable to complete it due to a delay to, or cancellation of, your service. In such cases, you are permitted to return to your point of origin and still get a refund.

You may return an unused Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee charged, if you decide not to travel because the train you intended to use is:
• cancelled, or
• delayed
...

The member of ticket office staff was therefore incorrect to deduct anything from your refund and you should contact Southern's customer services to claim back the remaining amount they wrongly deducted.

You can't claim Delay Repay here as you didn't complete the journey, therefore the member of ticket office staff was also wrong to suggest this.

You haven't given have any details about your Southern Water experience, but regardless, it's unlikely to be particularly relevant to this as the rules and principles at stake are likely to be different.

 

[brettb]

Thanks - yeah I've just read the conditions of carriage so I'm pretty sure I'm in the right now.

I don't think there's much I could have done because if I'd have walked away without paying he could have called the cops. I'd already made a pretty big scene, and there was a queue waiting behind me.

I'll probably escalate to the regulator because this was shockingly poor service (and advice).

Now I know I'm in the right I'll reveal I was trying to go from Littlehampton to Hassocks but only made it as far as Angmering. I feel for the many passengers who were trying to get to Gatwick, but for some reason were sent off down the line to Barnham (I'm sure going via Brighton would have been quicker).

Totally off topic but when I moved house Southern Water gave me a final estimated bill that was obviously made up and was completely unrelated to my actual usage. After much email writing they wrote it off. It was only for like £17 or something.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks - yeah I've just read the conditions of carriage so I'm pretty sure I'm in the right now.

I don't think there's much I could have done because if I'd have walked away without paying he could have called the cops.

I'm not sure the police would have bothered attending, but obviously that is something easier said in hindsight!

I'd already made a pretty big scene, and there was a queue waiting behind me.

I'll probably escalate to the regulator because this was shockingly poor service (and advice).

Unfortunately there is little point in raising this with the ORR. The ORR isn't going to do anything about one individual complaint and will direct you to take the matter up with Southern's customer services. If you're dissatisfied with their response, you can escalate the complaint to the Rail Ombudsman once 8 weeks elapse, or once they have issued you a 'letter of deadlock' (whichever happens first). However, I also wouldn't hold out great hopes for success with the Ombudsman, as experience suggests they are completely ineffective.

 

[Haywain]

I don't think there's much I could have done because if I'd have walked away without paying

Hadn't you already got a ticket? You said you were asking for a refund.

 

[brettb]

Hadn't you already got a ticket? You said you were asking for a refund.

I bought a Littlehampton to Hassocks return. I was refunded the cost of that (£13 - capped by Network Railcard).

But then the guy forced me to buy a £4 return to Angmering, even though I just went there, stood on the platform for nearly an hour then went back to Littlehampton. He promptly scrawled "USED" all over them.

I could have just walked away, but maybe he could have called the cops, but he also had my original tickets and receipts behind the glass. You gotta be careful at stations in case BTP are lurking.

I have never, ever been this angry about anything.

 

[gray1404]

You need to make a formal complaint about the ticket office staff member for his failure to apply the National Rail conditions of travel and apply your legal refund rights. GT-R need to refund you what you are owed + compensation for the inconvenience.

 

[Haywain]

But then the guy forced me to buy a £4 return to Angmering,

Forced? You can't be forced to pay for something by card - or had he withdrawn that amount from cash that should have been given to you in your refund?

 

[Watershed]

Forced? You can't be forced to pay for something by card - or had he withdrawn that amount from cash that should have been given to you in your refund?

It sounds like the OP's original tickets were on the clerk's side of the window/desk, so if they had walked away, they would (for practical reasons) likely have forfeited any right to a refund on their original ticket.

 

[Haywain]

It sounds like the OP's original tickets were on the clerk's side of the window/desk, so if they had walked away, they would (for practical reasons) likely have forfeited any right to a refund on their original ticket.

If the refund had been given, that wouldn't have mattered. That's why I'm asking the question.

 

[Deerfold]

Forced? You can't be forced to pay for something by card - or had he withdrawn that amount from cash that should have been given to you in your refund?

It depends what you mean by forced, but I'd say a threat of calling the police if he didn't might count. Those well up on the rules of the railway might laugh it off, but anyone with even a tiny bit of doubt that they might not be in the right might feel compelled to buy the other ticket.

 

[Kite159]

As well as complaining to Southern about the ticket office behaviour at failing to follow something as basic as refunding when trains go wrong, also send a letter to the media as they might pick it up on yet another failing of the rail industry, maybe even complaining to your MP as who knows how many others that ticket office person has charged when things go wrong.

Just remember they are "Putting passengers first"

 

[Bletchleyite]

It depends what you mean by forced, but I'd say a threat of calling the police if he didn't might count. Those well up on the rules of the railway might laugh it off, but anyone with even a tiny bit of doubt that they might not be in the right might feel compelled to buy the other ticket.

Plus anyone who applies the generally sensible way to avoid prosecution for fare irregularities, even if wrongful ones - pay for any additional fare or Penalty Fare required and pursue a complaint afterwards.

 

[skyhigh]

I got really angry because we're talking about £4 here

I'd already made a pretty big scene

I have never, ever been this angry about anything.

I'm not intending to teach you to suck eggs, but my general experience in life is that (even when you are 100% undoubtedly in the right) being polite goes a long way to make things easier for you. Getting angrier than you've ever been and making a big scene is likely just to make someone wrongly reinforce their position. For a sum such as £4 I'd probably have left it and gone via customer services if the clerk wasn't having any of it.

 

[miklcct]

You should demand for the refund of the wrongly-purchased ticket. If not given, then escalate to the regulator first. Failing that, take court action in the small claims court as per NRCoT you are totally in the right.

 

[Watershed]

You should demand for the refund of the wrongly-purchased ticket. If not given, then escalate to the regulator first. Failing that, take court action in the small claims court as per NRCoT you are totally in the right.

The regulator will not be interested. It is also worth the OP considering whether bringing a civil claim would be worth their time, particularly if they have alternative options such as making a chargeback if they used a card to pay for the ticket originally. This all presupposes that GTR refuse to provide the refund that is owed.

 

[MrJeeves]

GTR are always very reasonable and understanding in my experience, sending me £30 of travel vouchers as an apology for rejecting a £15 delay repay claim once.

Politeness is key, though. If you're courteous, explain the situation clearly and state what you think should have happened instead, they'll probably sort everything out for you.

 

[Starmill]

I'm not intending to teach you to suck eggs, but my general experience in life is that (even when you are 100% undoubtedly in the right) being polite goes a long way to make things easier for you. Getting angrier than you've ever been and making a big scene is likely just to make someone wrongly reinforce their position. For a sum such as £4 I'd probably have left it and gone via customer services if the clerk wasn't having any of it.

Unfortunately this is the best advice that can be given I think.

To the OP, the ticket clerk was mistaken in what they were saying to you. Ultimately you were very unlikely to persuade them that they were mistaken and you were right. Some people have a mentality that because they work somewhere, that makes what they say correct regardless of anything else. It may not be this which is the cause of your disagreement, it may simply be an honest mistake, but either way you're overwhelmingly unlikely to get anywhere by arguing.

Therefore, after you've tried politely to explain the situation two or maybe three times, the best course of action is to just walk away, get on with the rest of your day as best as you can, and then later, write a complaint about your interaction with the ticket clerk and request any refund that's due. We can give advice about what to say in such letters, and if you can't get a satisfactory resolution from customer services, you can go to the Rail Ombudsman. There is no guarantee of success with these options, but there's a better chance than arguing it out with one person in a ticket office. It's always a good idea to keep any tickets or receipts if you later need to make a complaint.

 

[yorkie]

Unfortunately this is the best advice that can be given I think.

To the OP, the ticket clerk was mistaken in what they were saying to you. Ultimately you were very unlikely to persuade them that they were mistaken and you were right. Some people have a mentality that because they work somewhere, that makes what they say correct regardless of anything else. It may not be this which is the cause of your disagreement, it may simply be an honest mistake, but either way you're overwhelmingly unlikely to get anywhere by arguing.

Therefore, after you've tried politely to explain the situation two or maybe three times, the best course of action is to just walk away, get on with the rest of your day as best as you can, and then later, write a complaint about your interaction with the ticket clerk and request any refund that's due. We can give advice about what to say in such letters, and if you can't get a satisfactory resolution from customer services, you can go to the Rail Ombudsman. There is no guarantee of success with these options, but there's a better chance than arguing it out with one person in a ticket office. It's always a good idea to keep any tickets or receipts if you later need to make a complaint.

Agreed.

Poor experiences at ticket offices is not uncommon and staff refusing to look up the correct position and simply insisting they are right does happen more often than it should.

A complaint should be made; I look forward to hearing the outcome...

Was ticket office guy right or was he just being a jobsworth?

Neither; being a jobsworth is carrying out a job 'to the letter' but without applying any common sense. While such people do exist on the railway (and do indeed risk bringing their employer / the wider industry into disrepute by doing so) that wasn't the case here.

It is pleasing to see over 90% of forum members voting in this poll got the right answer!

Let us know when you have an outcome or update by reporting this post and we'll reopen the thread to enable you to let us know how you got on.