Abandoning journey - refund?

[Brucey]

Today I attempted to travel from Waterbeach to Berney Arms.

The 11:36 train to Berney Arms (the last of the day) was diverted and no longer called at this station. The other passengers were provided with taxis, but they couldn't do that for me (obvious reasons, with staff somewhat shocked that anyone would actually want to travel to Berney Arms).

Therefore I decided to return back to Waterbeach, after taking a short stop in Norwich to grab some lunch.

I enquired about a refund at the ticket office, although they were helpful, the best they could offer was a 70p refund (difference between ticket purchased and travel already completed). Turned out they couldn't even do that as my ticket had the £12 railcard minimum fare applied. I left with a delay form and a free coffee voucher (nice touch, actually).

Had I chosen to travel, my delay would have been 718 minutes. That would make me eligible for a 50% refund of the return price. But, as my travel was completely pointless (I had no business in Norwich so headed back home), I feel a full refund should be offered as my contract was for travel to the destination shown on my ticket and AGA were unable to provide that.

Any comments?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's worth asking HQ nicely.

I managed to get a refund from a different TOC in similar circumstances last year; in my case I was making a journey in order to travel over some less well used track.

Upon arrival at the station where I would have had to change for the service over that track, I had a 90 minute wait. At that point, my train was shown as "on time".

Half an hour later it had been cancelled because of a Category A SPAD ( involving a different train ) meaning the unit was unable to make the inbound journey as it was trapped on the far side of the investigation.

The following service over the same line was going to run, but I would not have been able to get home in time* if I had waited for it.

When I explained that to the TOC, they refunded in full the entire journey, including my travel to and from the changing point, without quibble.




*My wife was going out with her care agency and I was needed to look after the kids so I had to get back before the agency's booked pick up time.

 

[furlong]

Any comments?

Insist on a full refund. (In effect a breach of contract.)

The new Conditions of Travel from 1st October make this clear:

30. Your right to a refund if your train is disrupted and you choose not to travel
30.1 If the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed, or your reservation will not be honoured, and you decide not to travel, you may return the unused Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee being charged.

This Condition applies to all Tickets, including Tickets (such as advance Tickets) that are otherwise non-refundable, and also applies if you have begun your journey but are unable to complete it due to delay or cancellations and return to your point of origin.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Insist on a full refund. (In effect a breach of contract.)

The new Conditions of Travel from 1st October make this clear:

Except the Conditions of Travel don't apply until 1st October, so any refund would have to be sought under Condition 26 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

26. Refunds on tickets that have not been used

If you decide not to use a ticket (other than a Season Ticket - see Condition 36) to make all or part of your intended journey, then:

• if the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed or your reservation will not be honoured, you decide not to travel and at that time you return the unused ticket to any ticket office, the Train Company responsible for that ticket office will, wherever possible, give you an immediate full refund as shown in Condition 27;
• if the train you intend to use is cancelled, delayed or your reservation will not be honoured, your ticket or relevant portion of it is completely unused, you decide not to travel and you submit a claim for a refund within 28 days of the expiry of the ticket to the Ticket Seller you will be given a full refund as shown in Condition 27 as soon as practicable and in any case within one month of your claim being received.

It could be argued, which it seems the Ticket Office (presumably at Norwich) have done, that the ticket has been used to travel from Waterbeach to Norwich and return, so the refund due amounts to just 70p (i.e. the difference in fares between Waterbeach and Norwich and between Waterbeach and Berney Arms)...but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

So why couldnt they get you to your destination? shock alpne is no reason not to, even if the station is in the back end of beyond its still in the NRCOC that they have to get you there...

 

[Starmill]

Perhaps a rail replacement river service was unavailable?

 

[Brucey]

So why couldnt they get you to your destination? shock alpne is no reason not to, even if the station is in the back end of beyond its still in the NRCOC that they have to get you there...

Perhaps a rail replacement river service was unavailable?

Exactly. Bernery Arms station is 6 miles from Great Yarmouth station and approx. 2.5 miles from the nearest road.

 

[infobleep]

Exactly. Bernery Arms station is 6 miles from Great Yarmouth station and approx. 2.5 miles from the nearest road.

Sedan chair for the final stretch?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Insist on a full refund. (In effect a breach of contract.)

The new Conditions of Travel from 1st October make this clear:

As CyrusWuff notes, the new NRCoT doesn't kick in until tomorrow (1st October strangely enough), so cannot be used for this case.

....It could be argued, which it seems the Ticket Office (presumably at Norwich) have done, that the ticket has been used to travel from Waterbeach to Norwich and return, so the refund due amounts to just 70p (i.e. the difference in fares between Waterbeach and Norwich and between Waterbeach and Berney Arms)...but that's a whole other can of worms.

Condition 26 (a) and (b) do not, technically, apply because the ticket was not 'unused', parts (c), (d) or (e) seem the most appropriate and note (i) states that the fare for travel actually made may be deducted from the refund due.

Contacting the customer services department may yield better results.

 

[Phil.]

Today I attempted to travel from Waterbeach to Berney Arms.

The 11:36 train to Berney Arms (the last of the day) was diverted and no longer called at this station. The other passengers were provided with taxis, but they couldn't do that for me (obvious reasons, with staff somewhat shocked that anyone would actually want to travel to Berney Arms).

Therefore I decided to return back to Waterbeach, after taking a short stop in Norwich to grab some lunch.

I enquired about a refund at the ticket office, although they were helpful, the best they could offer was a 70p refund (difference between ticket purchased and travel already completed). Turned out they couldn't even do that as my ticket had the £12 railcard minimum fare applied. I left with a delay form and a free coffee voucher (nice touch, actually).

Had I chosen to travel, my delay would have been 718 minutes. That would make me eligible for a 50% refund of the return price. But, as my travel was completely pointless (I had no business in Norwich so headed back home), I feel a full refund should be offered as my contract was for travel to the destination shown on my ticket and AGA were unable to provide that.

Any comments?

Any comments? Yup. Remarkable how a TOC can just refund the difference for a cancelled leg of a ticket but won't allow you to pay the difference due if you've made a mistake on the train citing that, "your ticket is no longer valid". Why can't the entire ticket be refunded, it wasn't the passenger's fault that the train was cancelled/diverted making the journey pointless.

 

[causton]

Remarkable how a TOC can just refund the difference for a cancelled leg of a ticket but won't allow you to pay the difference due if you've made a mistake on the train citing that,

You won't get a refund on the train either.

Not a fair comparison...

If you went to a ticket office you would be able to, depending on what vague circumstances you are on about, or if there was no ticket office the guard would (or should) be able to as well!

 

[PermitToTravel]

They should have arranged for another train to stop, really; or if Brucey would have been happy with this, taxied them as close to the station as a taxi will fit

 

[Brucey]

Thank you for all the comments. I have written in to Greater Anglia asking for a full refund.

It is good to see that the NRCoT will cover this situation. Shame it hasn't been included up until now, as it does seem like a rather unfair contract IMO.
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They should have arranged for another train to stop, really; or if Brucey would have been happy with this, taxied them as close to the station as a taxi will fit

TBH, it became apparent this was the first time the staff involved had ever encountered this situation! In fact, they seemed surprised that anyone would want to travel there at all.

The next train scheduled to pass through the station was in three hours time and in the opposite direction. I intended to do about 6 miles of walking once at Berney Arms, then return, so my whole plan would've been screwed up if I had done that as there wouldn't be a return service for me to take.

To be fair to the staff at Norwich, they were most helpful. The on-train announcement before departing was clear. A member of station staff met us at the train door then escorted us to the information desk, where they attempted to arrange taxis. When this wasn't possible for me, I was directed to the ticket office who, after being unable to process a refund, offered me some return train times and a free coffee voucher whilst I decided which return train to take. This is definitely the best treatment I have ever experienced as a delayed passenger.

 

[Brucey]

Update: I emailed into AGA with a scan of the tickets, today I received a £12.00 cheque in the post.

That's a full refund. Considering I paid £10.00 with a rail travel voucher, I was expecting a refund by that method.

Shame I took a day annual leave to not really travel anywhere useful, but very pleased with Greater Anglia's service and good to know this situtation is now covered by the NRCoT for future journeys.

 

[Haywain]

Update: I emailed into AGA with a scan of the tickets, today I received a £12.00 cheque in the post.

That's a full refund. Considering I paid £10.00 with a rail travel voucher, I was expecting a refund by that method.

Shame I took a day annual leave to not really travel anywhere useful, but very pleased with Greater Anglia's service and good to know this situtation is now covered by the NRCoT for future journeys.

The situation was already covered by the previous conditions, you simply encountered staff who couldn't implement the correct solution. Although, to be fair, the staff at Norwich would have to retain the ticket to give you a full refund, which would have left you without a means of getting home. Therefore, advising you to return to your starting station and subsequently claim the full refund would be the correct approach.