Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[trebor79]

Also depends on what spec the TOC ordered. I am told the Norwegian ones have a higher spec in terms of climate protection etc than the Swiss versions due to much harsher winters - different snow etc.

Indeed. Conversation included discussion of heating mats for the water tanks being an option that was not specified.
But, might be wibble.

 

[bahnause]

You'd have hoped that Swiss trains would be able to cope with our pretty mild winters!

Pretty standard behaviour to drop the water at a certain temperature, frost can damage the whole system otherwise. It depends on what you ordered (insulation / heating of the watertanks) how long you can stable them. We never have issues, as long as the trains have electricity.

Maybe the same mistake DB did with their first Stadler Diesel-GTW? They could have bought a tested train, but decided to swap a lot of the components out (engines, brakes, TMS software changes...).

The 755/745 could be quite different to a „standard“ continental FLIRT.

 

[eastdyke]

Pretty standard behaviour to drop the water at a certain temperature, frost can damage the whole system otherwise. It depends on what you ordered (insulation / heating of the watertanks) how long you can stable them. We never have issues, as long as the trains have electricity.
Maybe the same mistake DB did with their first Stadler Diesel-GTW? They could have bought a tested train, but decided to swap a lot of the components out (engines, brakes, TMS software changes...).
The 755/745 could be quite different to a „standard“ continental FLIRT.

Interesting, thanks. And with Crown Point a few bits short of the finished article, could the highlighted bit be in play here?

 

[chubs]

the early Electrostars were appalling initially, resulting in the extension of some leases and transfer of other units from elsewhere to cover before they got everything sorted. Give it time and I'm sure Stadler will get the software right. It seems beyond the capability of the railway industry to get it right within the first few months of passenger service, for whatever reason.

This is what I always think when everyone is moaning. The 375's had loads of problems but they were all ironed out and they were a 1000% improvement over junk like CEP/VEP/CIG.

The same will happen here.

 

[Roast Veg]

Based on the fact that the PIS uses the Weston reference implementation of the Wayland compositor, which is far from a production-ready window manager, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the software team's decision making.

I think we can expect kinks being ironed out for many months.

 

[Nflkrail]

755428 a failure today - spewing oil/fuel all the way from Beccles/Brampton until it was stopped around Westerfield. Finally on the move after a Stadler tech got onboard and isolated some engines...

 

[LAX54]

This is what I always think when everyone is moaning. The 375's had loads of problems but they were all ironed out and they were a 1000% improvement over junk like CEP/VEP/CIG.

The same will happen here.

CEP / CIG ...JUNK !!! ??

 

[LAX54]

755428 a failure today - spewing oil/fuel all the way from Beccles/Brampton until it was stopped around Westerfield. Finally on the move after a Stadler tech got onboard and isolated some engines...

We tried to push events along today, we had the Felixstowe stuck at Westerfield, and pressed our idea of running alongside to be there if detraining was going to happen, and to fire up the Tbird asap, we got approval fairly quickly, and 156417 trundled off wrong road, Stadler managed to get one engine going on the Lowestoft, so managed to limp into Ipswich. maybe our last rescue mission with a 156 ?

 

[samuelmorris]

755428 a failure today - spewing oil/fuel all the way from Beccles/Brampton until it was stopped around Westerfield. Finally on the move after a Stadler tech got onboard and isolated some engines...

755328? There'd only be two engines on that.

 

[Abbo]

This is what I always think when everyone is moaning. The 375's had loads of problems but they were all ironed out and they were a 1000% improvement over junk like CEP/VEP/CIG.

The same will happen here.

'everyone is moaning' is a little harsh for they are in the main moaning with good cause as the train services are abysmal and can not be relied upon for normal business , school hospital etc. These 'hic cups' should have been ironed out before the trains were foisted on the public.

Another group have commented on the introduction of the HSTs when a prototype was used for evalualtion and modifications made before production units introduced. Not perfect but I can not recall a multi fault fleet introduction as that currently introduced by Greater Anglia. I am 77. Yes maybe the Glasgow blue electrics and the North East London electrics which were withdrawn soon after introduction for numerous problems to be addressed and rectified. Has nothing been learned.

 

[samuelmorris]

'everyone is moaning' is a little harsh for they are in the main moaning with good cause as the train services are abysmal and can not be relied upon for normal business , school hospital etc. These 'hic cups' should have been ironed out before the trains were foisted on the public.

Another group have commented on the introduction of the HSTs when a prototype was used for evalualtion and modifications made before production units introduced. Not perfect but I can not recall a multi fault fleet introduction as that currently introduced by Greater Anglia. I am 77. Yes maybe the Glasgow blue electrics and the North East London electrics which were withdrawn soon after introduction for numerous problems to be addressed and rectified. Has nothing been learned.

This is unfortunately what happens when you replace an entire fleet at once with a new design of stock that hasn't been proven in the UK before. Just wait until the 720 introduction begins and 30,000 MTIN 321s are replaced with 5,000 MTIN or less 720s. The 7-car 345s (without the requisite components for Crossrail use) have been in service for quite a while and have topped out around 6000-7000 MTIN, with no sign of further improvement. It's possible that fixing other defects has taken a backseat to getting the Crossrail functionality working but I'm sceptical.

 

[F Great Eastern]

This is unfortunately what happens when you replace an entire fleet at once with a new design of stock that hasn't been proven in the UK before. Just wait until the 720 introduction begins and 30,000 MTIN 321s are replaced with 5,000 MTIN or less 720s. The 7-car 345s (without the requisite components for Crossrail use) have been in service for quite a while and have topped out around 6000-7000 MTIN, with no sign of further improvement. It's possible that fixing other defects has taken a backseat to getting the Crossrail functionality working but I'm sceptical.

And that is before you consider that the 360s and 379s also were even higher than the 321s.

 

[samuelmorris]

And that is before you consider that the 360s and 379s also were even higher than the 321s.

I've knocked this up in Excel based on MR data. Not perfect of course as the legacy stock only has annual average figures, but it should give a rough idea of where we're at so far (by so far I of course mean November, Period 9).
https://i.imgur.com/Pm791jg.png

 

[trebor79]

I do think there is a disproportionate amount of moaning. Yes there are ongoing frustrations on the Felixstowe and Peterborough services. But all the other rural routes seem to be running quite well at the moment.

 

[Nflkrail]

755328? There'd only be two engines on that.

Sorry, control used the wrong unit number! Definitely a 4 car with four Deutz V8s!

 

[Nflkrail]

I do think there is a disproportionate amount of moaning. Yes there are ongoing frustrations on the Felixstowe and Peterborough services. But all the other rural routes seem to be running quite well at the moment.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Look at the disproportionate amount of class 755 failures. Although you'd expect it to an extent being new, the miles per technical incident figures are incredibly low.

 

[Railperf]

What is causing the most failures now? Have they sorted the engine overheat issues yet - despite being pretty cool out there.

 

[gingerheid]

I do think there is a disproportionate amount of moaning. Yes there are ongoing frustrations on the Felixstowe and Peterborough services. But all the other rural routes seem to be running quite well at the moment.

I really hope the current service level doesn't become accepted as the new normal.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Perhaps, perhaps not. Look at the disproportionate amount of class 755 failures. Although you'd expect it to an extent being new, the miles per technical incident figures are incredibly low.

A quick look at National Rail website shows Felixstowe line buses again due to train fault services are suspended. There's no doubt the 755s are the most unreliable new train by far sadly.

 

[Railperf]

A quick look at National Rail website shows Felixstowe line buses again due to train fault services are suspended. There's no doubt the 755s are the most unreliable new train by far sadly.

I am hearing the 755/3s are proving to be a lot more unreliable than the 755/4s! Anyone know why? What chance of retro fitting some extra engines to the 755/3s?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Less redundancy on a 755/3 for one, but I've also heard there is a specific issue with the 3 car variants.

 

[samuelmorris]

A quick look at National Rail website shows Felixstowe line buses again due to train fault services are suspended. There's no doubt the 755s are the most unreliable new train by far sadly.

With the exception of the 9-car 345s (which have a known software issue requiring regular reboots that don't take long, so arguably less serious than 755 faults), yes they currently are.

 

[MikePJ]

Just to chip in on the software front: my day job is electronic engineering and embedded software, so I've seen a lot of software bugs in my time. The great virtue of software is its flexibility - you can change functionality as you want. But this comes back to bite you from a project management perspective, especially with a new product introduction. Anyone doing a project plan will look for fixed constraints and lead times - and making the hardware is full of these. Meanwhile, the software can be developed almost independently of the hardware. This often encourages senior management, faced with a project running late, to cut back time for software development, integration with the final hardware (which, of course, has to wait for the hardware to be ready), and lots and lots of testing. A big complex system like a train, made of hundreds of components? Cutting short the testing to "get the product out there" will come back to bite you. Airbus mitigate a lot of this by having an "iron bird" - a complete plane's worth of electrical/mechanical systems, minus the actual airframe - in a warehouse, so that you can get as close as possible to the real hardware as early as you can. I can't help but feel that the train makers are all rather late to the software party and failing to learn the lessons from other industries. But it's very common to have teething troubles as a result of system integration difficulties. Integration between train and signalling is a big one in the rail sector. Power supply quality is often a big factor. I once worked on an electrical consumer appliance where we had a few units reported as catching fire. It was impossible to replicate in the lab initially and took weeks of work to find out what was going on - it turned out to be caused by people plugging them into portable generators, which produce an out-of-spec mains voltage that was confusing the power electronics.

But I bet my bottom dollar that the main issue is that other aspects (mechanical, electrical, supply chain) of the GA Flirt project at Stadler ran late, and so software development and testing time got cut short to try and get the trains delivered. It's a very common management decision, and one that often doesn't end well!

 

[86246]

A quick look at National Rail website shows Felixstowe line buses again due to train fault services are suspended. There's no doubt the 755s are the most unreliable new train by far sadly.

GA says that the service between Ipswich and Cambridge is also suspended due to a train fault and currently no road transport is available. Looks like the last three Ipswich - Cambridge and return services are all cancelled.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Train fault on a line causing cancellations in GA speak = more trains needing repairs than usual at the same time in everyone elses.

 

[Rhoobarb]

Sorry, control used the wrong unit number! Definitely a 4 car with four Deutz V8s!

For the record the offending Basil was 423.

At the same time as 423 limped into Ipswich, 421 was being taken out of service (should have worked the 1358 to Peterborough) due to engine issues.

 

[ashkeba]

I've knocked this up in Excel based on MR data. Not perfect of course as the legacy stock only has annual average figures, but it should give a rough idea of where we're at so far (by so far I of course mean November, Period 9).
https://i.imgur.com/Pm791jg.png

Blank image. Could it be attached here instead, please?

 

[ashkeba]

This is unfortunately what happens when you replace an entire fleet at once with a new design of stock that hasn't been proven in the UK before. Just wait until the 720 introduction begins and 30,000 MTIN 321s are replaced with 5,000 MTIN or less 720s. The 7-car 345s (without the requisite components for Crossrail use) have been in service for quite a while and have topped out around 6000-7000 MTIN, with no sign of further improvement. It's possible that fixing other defects has taken a backseat to getting the Crossrail functionality working but I'm sceptical.

GA is not replacing the entire fleet at once with a new design of stock that hasn't been proven in the UK before - it's being replaced in two stages (because Aventra is late) and Aventra has been proven... but proven a bit of a lemon? Which just goes to show, buying the same as everyone else is no guarantee of reliability.

But I got stuck on GN's Electrostars twice soon after introduction and my girlfriend got detrained in the middle of the fens and that was not a new design.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Looks like to be a serviceable rolling stock shortage this morning.

Felixstowe still out and other rural services cancelled also.

 

[samuelmorris]

Blank image. Could it be attached here instead, please?

Try this?

GA is not replacing the entire fleet at once with a new design of stock that hasn't been proven in the UK before - it's being replaced in two stages (because Aventra is late) and Aventra has been proven... but proven a bit of a lemon? Which just goes to show, buying the same as everyone else is no guarantee of reliability.

But I got stuck on GN's Electrostars twice soon after introduction and my girlfriend got detrained in the middle of the fens and that was not a new design.

Yes indeed, I'm just referring to the 745s/755s with that remark because that's as far as we've got so far. People (mostly the general public I hasten to add) are decrying the Anglia service with the usual defamatory remarks and the fleet MTIN reduction that will result from the 720 introduction hasn't even started yet!