Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[dk1]

Started storing 755s at Kimberley on the Mid-Norfolk Railway from today too.

 

[rdlover777]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H12009/2019/05/30/advanced
745002 looks to be arriving tonight

Also, first lot of Class 755s stored at the Mid Norfolk Sidings

Picture Source: RAIL Magazine

 

[Shunter_69]

First 12 car Inter City is being delivered today. Saw it at Gidea Park en route to Norwich.

 

[TheEdge]

It has arrived safely in the care of Crown Point. Looks rather tasty on the inside.

 

[38Cto15E]

I am not familiar with the MNR, how many Stadler coaches will the new sidings be able to accommodate given that some of them appear to have freight wagons taking up some room? TIA

 

[WindsorJoe]

Hi I am a new member here. I have been rail forum posts including all 85 pages here. I appreciate the discussion about the Southminster Branch and the Wickford bay platforms have been discussed previously. As we get more closer to the introduction of the new stock are there any updates on the plans for the Southminster branch. I’m Guessing the options are as follows. Abellio arrange a deal to keep some renatus 321 or some sort of Complaint stock. (I have heard 365’s rumoured). On option of extending all Southminster servicers to Liverpool Street. (I recon this is the most unlikely option). Or extending Southminster services to Shenfield. Like in the mid-2000s. So, there is a cross platform connection to London services. This would require reducing there service to every hour rather than every 40 minutes. Or every 40 minutes and having 3 units run the service. (more unlucky than any other option I know).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hi I am a new member here. I have been rail forum posts including all 85 pages here. I appreciate the discussion about the Southminster Branch and the Wickford bay platforms have been discussed previously. As we get more closer to the introduction of the new stock are there any updates on the plans for the Southminster branch. I’m Guessing the options are as follows. Abellio arrange a deal to keep some renatus 321 or some sort of Complaint stock. (I have heard 365’s rumoured). On option of extending all Southminster servicers to Liverpool Street. (I recon this is the most unlikely option). Or extending Southminster services to Shenfield. Like in the mid-2000s. So, there is a cross platform connection to London services. This would require reducing there service to every hour rather than every 40 minutes. Or every 40 minutes and having 3 units run the service. (more unlucky than any other option I know).

I still wonder if a Class 755 might be used on Wickford-Southminster because they’re short enough to fit and could run on electric the whole way, the only issue is getting them down to Wickford and back again in the evening is a bit irritating but could be done I suppose.

 

[Rick1984]

Potential for some great shots of heritage trains alongside Flirts

 

[Bringback309s]

I still wonder if a Class 755 might be used on Wickford-Southminster because they’re short enough to fit and could run on electric the whole way, the only issue is getting them down to Wickford and back again in the evening is a bit irritating but could be done I suppose.

Could one or two 720's be shortened for branches where there is this issue?

 

[dk1]

Could one or two 720's be shortened for branches where there is this issue?

They potentially could be but it would not only be a waste of money buying the intermediate vehicles but having an inflexible fleet is very restrictive operationally.

 

[Bringback309s]

They potentially could be but it would not only be a waste of money buying the intermediate vehicles but having an inflexible fleet is very restrictive operationally.

Surely better than a micro fleet of old rolling stock or a 755 far from home? And they could just not build a couple of intermediate coaches for those units.

 

[dk1]

Surely better than a micro fleet of old rolling stock or a 755 far from home? And they could just not build a couple of intermediate coaches for those units.

Orders are all placed by now though. Probably better to just run through to Shenfield. Hope they don't nick a 755 ot two. Would imagine a 45min frequency to balance out the promised 4tph on the Southend branch.

 

[Class 170101]

Could swap a Class 755 via the Liverpool Street to Lowestoft service.

 

[306024]

The Wickford bay conundrum seems to rotate weekly. Options so far:
1) Keep some 321s
2) Use 360s that only Ilford drivers sign
3) Use another EMU that no one signs
4) Run to Shenfield and don't use the bays.
5) 4 car Bombardiers
6) Flirts (more driver training)
7) Rebuild Wickford station
Anyone care to lay odds?

 

[MrPIC]

likely the same as for Hertford East, keep legacy stock operating until the platform/points can be re-worked. Either that or use a flirt, if they can cycle 9 units from Stansteds back to Norwich I'm sure they can manage one or two Bi modes.

 

[dk1]

Could swap a Class 755 via the Liverpool Street to Lowestoft service.

Oh my days. That sounds like a train planners worst nightmare.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

The Wickford bay conundrum seems to rotate weekly. Options so far:
1) Keep some 321s
2) Use 360s that only Ilford drivers sign
3) Use another EMU that no one signs
4) Run to Shenfield and don't use the bays.
5) 4 car Bombardiers
6) Flirts (more driver training)
7) Rebuild Wickford station
Anyone care to lay odds?

Options 4 or 6 will be the cheapest and therefore more likely. Remember it also applies to Manningtree Bay as well, so I think option 6 will happen at least somewhere anyway.

 

[Wivenswold]

I don't think it'll end up being a "micro-fleet" that's kept. WA locals, Southminster branch and the possible shortage of 12 car Stadlers to cover Stansted & Norwich services. You're looking at 30 4 car units I reckon and most likely to be a Bombardier product based at Ilford. Hmmm.

 

[Bringback309s]

How would running to Shenfield work without having an adverse affect on existing through services? i.e. a platform "blocked" whilst the unit sits there waiting to go back. Is platform 1 still used much?

 

[47421]

On the infra issues the Franchise Agreement requirement is per below. The 10 car reference in 105.2 is presumably a mistake, and they really meant 5 car in some places.

On these locations my understanding of why work needed / why SDO not an option is:

Hertford East - signal at end of platform, also crossover at end of platform, so needs signal and pointwork and overheads moved
Wickford - bay - dont know this location very well - does signal / points / overheads need work if platform not extended at buffer end?
Manningtree - bay - dont know this location very well - does signal / points / overheads need work if platform not extended at buffer end?
Kings Lynn - what is the plan here, to run 10 car 720s or only 5? 5 can fit now can't they? When NR announced work for 8 car to KL made no mention of GA services or 5 or 10 car units at all https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...mbridge-and-kings-lynn-given-the-green-light/
Elsenham - signal at end of platform so SDO involves overhanging busy road crossing
Ware - signal at end of platform so SDO involves overhanging busy road crossing
St Margarets - signal at end of platform so SDO involves overhanging busy road crossing
Enfield Lock - signal at end of platform so SDO involves overhanging busy road crossing


As an aside the new STAR platforms at Tott Hale, Northumberland Park and Meridian Water are all 8 car. Not sure if 10 car 720s can SDO at them.

The work required on the Hertford East branch is pretty extensive, and 5 car will not be acceptable in the peak, so my guess is that a 4/8car fleet will be required until the work is done. Wouldnt surprise me if the Aventra order is changed to include some 4 cars, ie effectively some 710s, esp if 10cars cant go on STAR. In a sensible world Hertford East/STAR/Stratford to Stortford would be integrated with West Anglia inners and transferred to TfL and use a common 710 fleet.

I know it is ancient history now but it is very odd that all this was clearly forseen by DfT/GA 3 years ago and yet no solution yet identified.

105. Infrastructure upgrades

105.1 By no later than 1 May 2019, the Franchisee shall make all necessary changes to the infrastructure of the Stations (including relevant associated infrastructure surrounding such Stations) in order to accommodate the Passenger Services as set out in TSR2 and the Franchhisee shall incur a minimum expenditure of [REDACTED120] in doing so.

105.2 Pursuant to paragraph 105.1 such changes to the infrastructure shall include such infrastructure works at each of Hertford East, Wickford, Manningtree, Kings Lynn, Elsenham, Ware, St Margarets and Enfield Lock Stations as are necessary to enable any Passenger Services comprised of 10 rolling stock vehicles to call at such Stations by no later than 1 September 2018.​

 

[AC47461]

Wickford - bay - dont know this location very well - does signal / points / overheads need work if platform not extended at buffer end?

Both Wickford bays (1 & 4) have buildings at the end, (one of which is the booking office) and narrow to a 2-track bridge over the high street almost immediately, with a trailing crossover just beyond, and followed by the Southminster branch junction. The next bridge over the bypass carries 3 tracks (Southminster and Up&Down Southend Vic). So extending either or both bays would either involve demolishing buildings in one direction, one of which could involve the booking office (and it would get pushed back to a narrower space between the access to the car park and adjacent buildings), or widening both an embankment and a bridge, with the associated track and wiring....May 2019 was never going to happen in my opinion, and May 2020 would be ambitious even now.

 

[trebor79]

Manningtree bay can't be extended south because the station building is in the way. Extending north would be very costly as there are points and a level crossing almost immediately after the end of the platform.

 

[MrPIC]

I'm no rolling stock expert but I'm sure Bombardier could come up with a 8 car length equivalent subvariant of the 720, or even Stadler could make an 8 car long version flirt. Personally however I reckon for Wickford it'll be 4 car bimodes, and for the Hertford Branch will be 5 car 720's, after all apparently there is supposed to be an additional Hertford per hour in September which might go some way to counteract the loss of coaches until such time when the infrastructure works can be completed.
The stations mentioned above with crossings etc will use ASDO Front, like on the Braintree Branch where the front of the train stops beyond the platform so as not to block the crossings in rear.

 

[delticdave]

Both Wickford bays (1 & 4) have buildings at the end, (one of which is the booking office) and narrow to a 2-track bridge over the high street almost immediately, with a trailing crossover just beyond, and followed by the Southminster branch junction. The next bridge over the bypass carries 3 tracks (Southminster and Up&Down Southend Vic). So extending either or both bays would either involve demolishing buildings in one direction, one of which could involve the booking office (and it would get pushed back to a narrower space between the access to the car park and adjacent buildings), or widening both an embankment and a bridge, with the associated track and wiring....May 2019 was never going to happen in my opinion, and May 2020 would be ambitious even now.

Thanks for the detailed info. There is another problem, both bay platforms are used by the Southminster branch trains. To allow easy cross-platform interchange the up bay is used in the AM & the down bay in the PM. A widened embankment & new single track bridge over Wickford High Street would only allow access to a lengthened down bay.......

With the current rush-hour schedules the branch only needs one 10 car 720 duty (replacing the current 12-car 321), it would need SDO on all the branch stations except South Woodham & probably a 2nd crew member for despatching duties.

 

[47421]

I'm no rolling stock expert but I'm sure Bombardier could come up with a 8 car length equivalent subvariant of the 720, or even Stadler could make an 8 car long version flirt. Personally however I reckon for Wickford it'll be 4 car bimodes, and for the Hertford Branch will be 5 car 720's, after all apparently there is supposed to be an additional Hertford per hour in September which might go some way to counteract the loss of coaches until such time when the infrastructure works can be completed.
The stations mentioned above with crossings etc will use ASDO Front, like on the Braintree Branch where the front of the train stops beyond the platform so as not to block the crossings in rear.

The additional train per hour to Hertford was due per TSR2 May 2019, but none of the TSR2 changes were made other than Norwich in 90. But it was only ever off peak, peak service remains the same. And RTT does not show any changes in September (and has been updated for enhanced STAR). Going from 8 cars / 16 doors to 5 cars / 10 doors is very sub-optimal, as well as capacity reduction will result in increased dwell times on Lea Valley, which may or may not be compensated by better performance of the new trains.

On ASDO Front, that is only permitted if the front of the train is not beyond signal, and signal is at end of platform at Elsenham, Enfield Lock, Ware, St Margarets and Hertford East. Relatively simple job to move signal in some cases, but they need to get a move on

 

[RealTrains07]

I'm no rolling stock expert but I'm sure Bombardier could come up with a 8 car length equivalent subvariant of the 720, or even Stadler could make an 8 car long version flirt. Personally however I reckon for Wickford it'll be 4 car bimodes, and for the Hertford Branch will be 5 car 720's, after all apparently there is supposed to be an additional Hertford per hour in September which might go some way to counteract the loss of coaches until such time when the infrastructure works can be completed.
The stations mentioned above with crossings etc will use ASDO Front, like on the Braintree Branch where the front of the train stops beyond the platform so as not to block the crossings in rear.

They managed to get an 8 car variant of the electrostar if you put 2 together

 

[RailWonderer]

GA is not ordering any new stock beyond the 745/755/720 orders, its haemorrhaging money at the moment as it is. A handy go-everywhere (electrified) unit like the 379s are better kept and make sense to clear and train drivers to fill extra Liverpool St - Norwich, Liverpool St - Stansted, Liv St - Hertford East and Shenfield/Wickford Southminster routes that the Aventras are too long for and the Stadlers are too far away to diagram easily. For a while I've been suggesting this and its beginning to make more and more sense. Cheapest option out there.

 

[RealTrains07]

GA is not ordering any new stock beyond the 745/755/720 orders, its haemorrhaging money at the moment as it is.

Thats what happens when you try and replace an entire fleet of trains in 1 go with stadlers and aventras Dont spend 1 billion on trains that may be faster and more energy efficient but look cheap inside and out

A handy go-everywhere (electrified) unit like the 379s are better kept and make sense to clear and train drivers to fill extra Liverpool St - Norwich, Liverpool St - Stansted, Liv St - Hertford East and Shenfield/Wickford Southminster routes that the Aventras are too long for and the Stadlers are too far away to diagram easily. For a while I've been suggesting this and its beginning to make more and more sense. Cheapest option out there.

That would work better plus they still have gangway so if possible could be connected together and space used more effectively than having 2 flirts or aventras joined together wouldn’t you say?

 

[dk1]

Thats what happens when you try and replace an entire fleet of trains in 1 go with stadlers and aventras Dont spend 1 billion on trains that may be faster and more energy efficient but look cheap inside and out


That would work better plus they still have gangway so if possible could be connected together and space used more effectively than having 2 flirts or aventras joined together wouldn’t you say?

Nothing cheap about my driving seat on a Stadler I can assure you

 

[Alfie1014]

I'm no rolling stock expert but I'm sure Bombardier could come up with a 8 car length equivalent subvariant of the 720, or even Stadler could make an 8 car long version flirt. Personally however I reckon for Wickford it'll be 4 car bimodes, and for the Hertford Branch will be 5 car 720's, after all apparently there is supposed to be an additional Hertford per hour in September which might go some way to counteract the loss of coaches until such time when the infrastructure works can be completed.
The stations mentioned above with crossings etc will use ASDO Front, like on the Braintree Branch where the front of the train stops beyond the platform so as not to block the crossings in rear.

An 8 car GA Aventra will be 192m which is 32m longer than a current 8 car and a 4 car will be 96m which will be pretty close for the bays at around 100m. I think it’s almost certain GA won’t want or get 20m Aventra vehicle trains either!