Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[87015]

It will indeed need a drink, mid shift, sort of a PNB but assume that will be part of the diagram, between workings a quick nip into the fuelling point for a quick top up -)

That’s optimistic, the bid diagrams for Norwich locals had it down as 50% electric mileage on Sheringhams and Wherrys, there wasn’t a plan for midday fuelling as they wouldn’t need it

 

[eastdyke]

Every unit though, or just the first? From my recollection the first unit is given a more stringent target as it's assumed that is sufficient to demonstrate the units are sufficiently reliable, the 500 miles for subsequent units simply to prove they don't have any major unit-specific defects out of the box, rather than waste energy / fuel running 2000 miles of testing for each unit, which rapidly adds up to a vast amount of mileage on big fleets.

Quite probably just the first. Subsequent units may be accepted on a lower [?500 miles] fault free operation.
For Class 331s I believe that the initial in UK type acceptance is 1500 miles fault free followed by 500 miles fault free for subsequent units.
Edited to add:
I have just found further reference to the 385s which seems to confirm 2000 miles for each unit.
https://www.railengineer.co.uk/2018/04/09/class-385-debut-further-delayed/
Part quote:

In February, Rail Engineer was invited to take a ride on a Class 385 unit during one of its mileage accumulation runs. Each unit has to complete 2,000 miles fault-free running before it can enter service.

 

[trebor79]

It will indeed need a drink, mid shift, sort of a PNB but assume that will be part of the diagram, between workings a quick nip into the fuelling point for a quick top up -)

That won't work for the Norwich - Cambridge at least. There's only a few minutes turnaround, often eroded to nothing as a result of TSRs.
Unless the plan is to swap units onto a different diagram part way through the day.

 

[trebor79]

That’s optimistic, the bid diagrams for Norwich locals had it down as 50% electric mileage on Sheringhams and Wherrys, there wasn’t a plan for midday fuelling as they wouldn’t need it

What planet were they on?

 

[Roast Veg]

Quite probably just the first. Subsequent units may be accepted on a lower [?500 miles] fault free operation.
For Class 331s I believe that the initial in UK type acceptance is 1500 miles fault free followed by 500 miles fault free for subsequent units.
Edited to add:
I have just found further reference to the 385s which seems to confirm 2000 miles for each unit.
https://www.railengineer.co.uk/2018/04/09/class-385-debut-further-delayed/
Part quote:

It's possible that infrastructure plays a role in the fault free running figure - newer infrastructure on the E&G could mean a higher level of risk, and the FLIRTs can self-rescue in the event of a power supply issue.

 

[dk1]

That’s optimistic, the bid diagrams for Norwich locals had it down as 50% electric mileage on Sheringhams and Wherrys, there wasn’t a plan for midday fuelling as they wouldn’t need it

Train planning have been pulling their hair out & there will be so much dead mileage & wasted drivers hours ferrying units back & forth to refuel. Dear oh dear this is going to be chaotic fun

 

[Grumbler]

Train planning have been pulling their hair out & there will be so much dead mileage & wasted drivers hours ferrying units back & forth to refuel. Dear oh dear this is going to be chaotic fun

Can't they put pumps on the platforms?

 

[eastdyke]

It's possible that infrastructure plays a role in the fault free running figure - newer infrastructure on the E&G could mean a higher level of risk, and the FLIRTs can self-rescue in the event of a power supply issue.

I doubt it. Fault free running is to prove the individual unit not the infrastructure. Both modes will need to be proven before acceptance into passenger service. Someone will know the figures applicable to the FLIRTs.

 

[dk1]

Can't they put pumps on the platforms?

I'm not sure whether you are serious or not. I'm hoping it's the latter

 

[eastdyke]

Can't they put pumps on the platforms?

There has been a strong run on jerrycans in Norfolk and Suffolk ........

 

[dk1]

There has been a strong run on jerrycans in Norfolk and Suffolk ........

Just as they made bardic torches smaller & lighter we get those as part of our equipment haha.

 

[Mike_0ne]

Train planning have been pulling their hair out & there will be so much dead mileage & wasted drivers hours ferrying units back & forth to refuel. Dear oh dear this is going to be chaotic fun

(long time lurker here) Wait, so they ordered these trains for these rural routes without thinking if they'd have the range to deal with it? O.o I was skeptical at the "bid team weren't communicating with the planning/timetabling teams" thing but this seems like a huge freaking over-sight, worthy of yes-minister/twenty-twelve

 

[hwl]

(long time lurker here) Wait, so they ordered these trains for these rural routes without thinking if they'd have the range to deal with it? O.o I was skeptical at the "bid team weren't communicating with the planning/timetabling teams" thing but this seems like a huge freaking over-sight, worthy of yes-minister/twenty-twelve

The fuel tanks also had to be made smaller as the units were to heavy.
If you want proper over-sight look at their Brantham (not) depot antics and how many EMU they did order and how many they actually need...

 

[TheBigD]

(long time lurker here) Wait, so they ordered these trains for these rural routes without thinking if they'd have the range to deal with it? O.o I was skeptical at the "bid team weren't communicating with the planning/timetabling teams" thing but this seems like a huge freaking over-sight, worthy of yes-minister/twenty-twelve

Happy to be corrected but isn't the limited range/smaller fuel tanks a necessary measure to ensure the units are light enough to run at 'SP' speeds? Or is that just another railway rumour?

 

[hwl]

Happy to be corrected but isn't the limited range/smaller fuel tanks a necessary measure to ensure the units are light enough to run at 'SP' speeds? Or is that just another railway rumour?

Correct.

 

[jopsuk]

simple solution: electrify the lines

 

[Midnight Sun]

simple solution: electrify the lines

Or do as they do down under on long distance trains and attach a tank wagon fitted with a auto pump to keep the tanks topped up under way.

 

[DidcotDickie]

Can't they put pumps on the platforms?

Excellent. Top trolling!

 

[Roast Veg]

I doubt it. Fault free running is to prove the individual unit not the infrastructure. Both modes will need to be proven before acceptance into passenger service. Someone will know the figures applicable to the FLIRTs.

Although FFR is of course for the unit, the actual running miles would be subject to variation - all I'm suggesting is that the FLIRTs might be subject to the FFR of a diesel unit rather than an electric one.

 

[F Great Eastern]

What planet were they on?

Welcome to Abellio's approach to bidding for franchises.

Get a group of bid managers to promise everyone the world and plenty of big soundbites that sound good in theory so they win the franchise and make it the problem of someone else to make it work in practice and then blame them when it all goes wrong.

 

[Class 170101]

It will indeed need a drink, mid shift, sort of a PNB but assume that will be part of the diagram, between workings a quick nip into the fuelling point for a quick top up -)

PNB is in at Norwich by the look of it. It shouldn't need a trip to the fuel point mid turn though. The fault free mileage route as described is electrified.

 

[Shunter_69]

The first of each variant (3 car, 4 car, airport and Inter City) needs 2500 miles fault free running and each subsequent unit requires 1500 miles

 

[eastdyke]

The first of each variant (3 car, 4 car, airport and Inter City) needs 2500 miles fault free running and each subsequent unit requires 1500 miles

Thank you very much.
Do you know if there is any formal split for the bi-modes, ie to prove operation on each power source?
No good if all the fault free miles are under the wires when a unit is at Cromer!

 

[Shunter_69]

That split hasn’t been mentioned yet but I’m sure both modes will be tested thoroughly on each train.

 

[Bayum]

Is the lack of range in addition to the problems with one-door entry? Or has that now been solved? What a kerfuffle!

 

[jopsuk]

Thank you very much.
Do you know if there is any formal split for the bi-modes, ie to prove operation on each power source?
No good if all the fault free miles are under the wires when a unit is at Cromer!

I'd guess the precedent would be the similar testing for the Class 800? and do dual voltage trains undergo a programme on each power source?

 

[Richard Ingram]

I'm not sure whether you are serious or not. I'm hoping it's the latter

Excellent. Top trolling!

I'm not sure its such a stupid idea, I seem to remember seeing fuel pumps on the platforms at Skegness last time I left there by train. I could have been mistaken, I will check this weekend when I visit. Although, even if true, it would be a relatively special case, it's the only station I know where you are not allowed on the platform until the train is waiting.

 

[LAX54]

The 755/745's are now cleared for all routes at Norwich, and at Colchester all routes bar one. (Sudbury sdg), Somerleyton Bridge also OK now.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm not sure its such a stupid idea, I seem to remember seeing fuel pumps on the platforms at Skegness last time I left there by train. I could have been mistaken, I will check this weekend when I visit. Although, even if true, it would be a relatively special case, it's the only station I know where you are not allowed on the platform until the train is waiting.

those are water, not fuel!

 

[Richard Ingram]

those are water, not fuel!

I did wonder. Why do they need to be there? I can't see a modern train needing enough water to warrant a top up during the day.