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Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by swt class 450, 15 Jun 2017.
Very unlikely. There are some that would design the train themselves and still find fault
Bul depending on how much room there is between facing seats this might also impact comfort as it restricts where you can put your legs even on your own side
To clout my knees on? Yeah, great idea. Following Eurostar's awful example, then?
Merseyrail have the correct approach to this - just prosecute everyone that does it (unlike the confusing aspects of ticket validity, there is no excuse at all for thinking it is OK). People soon get the message.
The thing is Abellio in this franchise are very much a theoretical, quantity based operation rather than a practical,quality based one.
The cynic in me says that the bars are there because the leg-room is poor and they are being used as an artificial way of regulating how much people on each side of the bar takes up.
So we've seen seats facing each other without tables, table seats with bars to clout knees on, 3 in a row airline seating, and airline seating according to the last picture that is ultra high density.
Don't take my word for it - take the seat manufacturers
That's the way it is on a railway that is approaching 100% of capacity. The alternatives are:
longer trains - done that to the limit of infrastructure, (platform lengths, track layout, signal overlaps
more trains - no viable paths available, it would just increase delays and/or lower speeds
very high capacity rolling stock ala class700, - in times of high demand, accept that standing is necessary but make that as comfortable as is practicableUnless massive investment in infrastructure is made available, (I doubt that anytime soon), the busiest lines will gradually need to ignore the (mainly political) pressure of 'a seat for everybody', and recognise that delivering what passengers need is more important than what some say they want. On Thameslink, the better provision for high overall capacity rather that trying to seat everybody has reduced the probability of passengers being unable to board, to virtually zero. A side benefit is that better circulation of passengers on the trains has greatly reduced dwell times, - effectively reducing delays when running with minimum headways. I would imagine that Southend Vic., and Braintree/Colchester services will need that sort of rolling stock if rises in demand continue.
First things first, the Greater Anglia franchise is nothing like Thameslink so comparing it to that operator is folly.
There's nowhere near the crush loads that you will be getting on Thameslink for instance. and a good number of 8 car EMUs are going to be replaced by 5 car EMUs that hold far less passengers, which GA haven't directly confirmed, but if you read between the lines from some of their answers it will happen that way. TL had good reason for doing what they did but I don't think it applies to same extent here.
I'm not so sure there is demand for a 12 car Stansted Express high density layout, there's not even demand for an 8 car high density layout if you ask me since the current lower density 8 cars are enough most of the time and the majority of the trains that are busy from Stansted and considered 'overcrowded' tend to be absolutely heaving at the back of the train with the front being practically empty, hopefully the wider gangways will help deal with that though but everything I've seen just makes a NX coach to Stansted seem more attractive.
The rural services really do need a capacity uplift however and the longer trains there are going to be a massive benefit to anyone who travels on them so I see their thinking on that.
For the Intercity sets, even without using a high density layout there would be a big uplift in capacity since the space being used up on a platform for the DVT and loco is now going to be freed up for passenger carriage.
@F Great Eastern Aren't those just diagrams from the manufacturer demonstrating the potential density increase that the LEAN seat allows?
There's nothing thus far to say that GA will use that dense a layout.
First of the 755/3 755326 arrived today along with 755417 and 755418
Seems that the first three car 755 has arrived
Have there been any indications when we might start seeing the four cars entering sevice
Well if you look at the video posted up thread you will see they are using that layout unfortunately. The video posted shows the first non Greater Anglia issued shot of regular airline seats.
It makes it obvious why pretty much all the GA supplied shots have been at diagonal angles to give a false feeling of space or carriage ends, near doors and wheelchair spaces that have more space than your average seat.
By the way GA have continually refused to answer questions about seat pitch and leg room versus current stock. If there is nothing to hide why hide it?
A glance inside the 745 suggests that there is plenty of legroom. That lower diagram is not representative of what can be seen in videos of 745 and 755s. Time to put that one to bed before it gets tedious.
Agreed, the seats in the video are nowhere near as crammed as they are on that diagram.
These look like nice trains to this layman. Looking forward to riding in them soon.
The seats near the doors and the carriage ends and wheelchair spaces have more room than the ones in the middle of the carriage - look at that side on view of the airline seats in the video up thread, it's like sardines.
Which video is that, would you mind linking to the post? The recent video of the 745 doesn't exactly give a clear interior shot, or are those claims being made based on appearances from outside?
It's nothing like as high density at the diagram. In the diagram, the gap between the front of the fusion and the back of the seat in front is much less than the distance from the back to the from of the cushion. In the video that gap is clearly of much larger proportions.
It might be a relatively high density layout, but I wouldn't say it's sardines.
Needs to have all windows you can lean out of, three full buffet cars and a smoke-belching engine to get the thumbs up here!
Not really, I don't particularly like the seats in the MK3s, far prefer air-con to windows, very rarely use the buffet and have no obsession with locos and hating underfloor engines, but each to your own
It's a shame that these new units get so much hate by people, complaining about everything on them, why one door, not british built, etc. I personally like these new units and its a bit unfair to compare a full EMU to locohauled stock.
Except the emus are replacing loco hauled stock, so I'd say it's fair to compare in this case.
Not that I agree with all the criticism. I'll await and see when I see them.
It doesn't look any more tightly-packed than a 350/1, which due to the design of the seat I find more comfortable than anything with IC70s in.
FWIW, the first (and presently only in-service) use of those seats on the UK system is...SWR First Class. I had a brief go (not up for paying Weekend First for 2+2 seats when the Grammer E3000s in the rest of the train are perfectly decent) and they seemed pretty good - possibly could unseat (!) the IC3000 as my preferred UK seat.
It really isn't the first interior photo. The train was on display at Innotrans, and many photos exist over the Internet and Flickr, and they were linked to earlier in the thread. One source: https://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p192874246
I like the FLIRT as a product, I just don't like the specification GA have chosen.
They do, they have possibly some of the nicest 1st class areas found in modern EMUs with very plush, reclining and comfortable seats. 2+1 too!
I still don't understand why the 12-car FLIRTs weren't a homogeneous fleet. They could always have flogged First Class as a £5 upgrade or similar and left the buffet closed on StanEx services.
I agree that they should have been a homogeneous fleet with more spares to compensate for the slack in the fleet. I don't know how they will pull it off with one spare based some hundred miles away in Norwich! I think retaining first class would have been a great idea for the Airport service and was a trick missed. There's a lot of people flying from Stansted who are splashing out quite a bit on a holiday and to get away from the horrible crowds that have formed on board can escape to a quieter haven that is first class.
I think the interior spec of the trains look good on the whole but I genuinely fear that the lack of two doors per carriage, disposing of 1st class on Stansted Express and not having more spares with one on standby at Ilford or somewhere closer is going to cause more problems than it solves. It will come to bite the bean counters.
This is especially confusing considering that the same franchise's entire London Commuter operations are done by just two very similar variants of the same train!
Agreed will still be a while before it actually bites though. Those who though ti up long gone at that stage though!
Some of them already have!
Test trips next week... (provisional)
Monday 20th May 7554xx running mileage accumulation to Colchester/Ipswich 7554xx Route proving to Sheringham
Tuesday 21st May 7554xx running mileage accumulation to Lowestoft 7554xx Route proving to Yarmouth
Wednesday 22nd May 7554xx running mileage accumulation to Sheringham 7554xx Route proving to Yarmouth
Thursday 23rd May 7554xx running mileage accumulation to Colchester/Ipswich 745104 fatigue testing to Colchester Delivery of first Intercity EMU12. 7554xx Route proving to TBA
Friday 24th May 7554xx running mileage accumulation to Thetford 745104 fatigue testing to Colchester 7554xx Energy Consumption to Liverpool Street
Saturday 25th May 745104 fatigue testing to Colchester 7554xx Energy Consumption to Cambridge
What are current views on the first IC one in service on a Norwich, out of interest? This year?