Aber hourly service,warning.

[Gareth Marston]

Which is there for a reason, the schedule does not work without it in which I explained many moons ago.

Agreed on the whole it works but its a solution tied into having access to INTL forever more. It also means 2 2 Car Class 158 units are effectively east of Birmingham all day in a franchise that's short of stock. Theirs no shortage of other trains between New St and INTL.

ORCATS aside it makes perfect operational sense to do this.

I only mentioned it as Arriva promised the Cambrian punctuality would be sorted out from day one of the franchise (Dec 03) funnily enough it was only sorted 5 years later when there was extra money for them! If you spent that time commuting with a personal PPM of about 58% like me you develop views on it mostly spent stuck in Talerddig loop for 20 minutes at a time.

 

[tbtc]

Bangor which is the highest revenue earning station north of the M4 in Wales( it takes twice the cash of Wrexham and Rhyl its nearest rivals)

Didn't know that, interesting

 

[connor7777]

surely, any extra trains on the Cambrian to Aber will be an improvement.
As long as there is a 16.01 and an 18.01 departure from welshpool, thats the busy times in the evening back to shrewsbury.

 

[Gareth Marston]

surely, any extra trains on the Cambrian to Aber will be an improvement.
As long as there is a 16.01 and an 18.01 departure from welshpool, thats the busy times in the evening back to shrewsbury.

Not sure that the market for leaving the Mid Wales is in the evening is that strong to make it a priority Take a look at A458 between Welshpool and Shrewsbury in the AM and evening peaks its in the other direction to what you suggest.

A 0630 & 0830 departure from Aberystwyth and 1627 and 1827 return from Shrewsbury would tick many boxes. This whole things got bogged down on hourly because it was easier to sell to politicians and other stakeholders. The fact is we could have had some additional trains at any time in the last 14 years since we At SARPA first started campaigning for them - without the infrastructure enhancements. We first suggested in 1997 a 153 running from Machynlleth to Shrewsbury for a commuter arrival and then shuttling back and forth to Newtown in the daytime, crossing the Birmingham trains at Welshpool and then running back to Mach around 1830. This would have proved the market for additional services and could have been withdrawn if unsuccessful.

 

[merlodlliw]

Not sure that the market for leaving the Mid Wales is in the evening is that strong to make it a priority Take a look at A458 between Welshpool and Shrewsbury in the AM and evening peaks its in the other direction to what you suggest.

A 0630 & 0830 departure from Aberystwyth and 1627 and 1827 return from Shrewsbury would tick many boxes. This whole things got bogged down on hourly because it was easier to sell to politicians and other stakeholders. The fact is we could have had some additional trains at any time in the last 14 years since we At SARPA first started campaigning for them - without the infrastructure enhancements. We first suggested in 1997 a 153 running from Machynlleth to Shrewsbury for a commuter arrival and then shuttling back and forth to Newtown in the daytime, crossing the Birmingham trains at Welshpool and then running back to Mach around 1830. This would have proved the market for additional services and could have been withdrawn if unsuccessful.

an interesting trinket from North Wales rail website http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

ERTMS developments (copy with permission)

It appears that the new ERTMS signalling system is to be implemented across the whole of the Cambrian lines system before the end of March; can anyone confirm this and tell us what effect this will have on train services during the changeover?

Runour has it that there have been some 'Signal Passed at Danger' incidents during the pilot running between Barmouth and Pwllheli, in which drivers have gone past marker boards without receiving movement authorization from the ERTMS system. Investigations are under way as to why this should happen.ends.


Bob

 

[The Planner]

Suggests either something is wrong with the system or the 158s, I was under the impression that it should put the brakes on if it thinks it is going to overshoot the end of movement authority/marker board.

 

[seagull]

Just one extra 15x allocated to Mach could prove very useful in carrying extra Cambrian passengers, even based around pretty much the existing timetable but assuming use of Dovey Jn loop, and incorporating the Newtown shuttle suggestion, i.e:

M-F
05.45 ECS Mach-Aber arr 06.15
06.20 Aber-Mach-Welshpool (X07.50)-Shrewsbury arr 08.15
08.35 Shrewsbury-Welshpool (X09.00)-Newtown arr 09.15
09.35 Newtown-Welshpool (X09.50)-Shrewsbury arr 10.15
10.35 Shrewsbury-Welshpool (X11.00)-Newtown arr 11.15
11.35 Newtown-Welshpool (X11.50)-Shrewsbury arr 12.15
12.35 Shrewsbury-Welshpool (X13.00)-Newtown arr 13.15
13.35 Newtown-Welshpool (X13.50)-Shrewsbury arr 14.15
14.35 Shrewsbury-Welshpool (X15.00)-Newtown arr 15.15
15.35 Newtown-Welshpool (X15.50)-Shrewsbury arr 16.15
16.35 Shrewsbury-Welshpool (X17.00)-Mach arr 17.50 shunt to CS
from CS 19.00 Mach-Barmouth arr 19.55
M-Th 20.00 Barmouth-Mach arr 20.55
FO 22.12 Barmouth-Mach arr 23.05

As to the recent ERTMS incidents, the fault lies with a combination of the system and inexperience, rather than the 158s, I believe. ERTMS is not really designed for use on non-electric trains and non-brand new lines, and certain flaws in its use as a replacement for RETB seem to have come to light.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The bags are off... Was at Aberystywth station today, and they have taken the bags off the new signs, so I presume that means ERTMS has been switched on (although the line will closed for a while still I've heard on here). A 158 was there in the loop, which suprised me (I didn't think any 158s would be doing anything on the Cambrian while it is shut) and to my anoyance somebody has put up a "passengers must not pass this point" sign halfway along the platform. There are new signs, red circle with black fill and two numbers. Apart from the fill colour, they look like a speed sign, the type giving both Sprinter linespeed and the linespeed for everything else. Out at the level crossing I think one of the numbers on these signs was 80, so is Aberystwyth level crossing to Borth/Machynlleth 80mph now?

Over on the narrow guage side, I noticed the old standard guage platform 1 has been demolished! Maybe the information I read online a while back that an extra platform is to be added for standard guage trains is not as bogus as I thought, as the space vacated by platform 1 would allow the Vale Of Reidol to move over there and make space for a standard guage platform on the opposite face from the current one. The VOR are also building a new shed a little further up the line, anyone know why?

I think the 150s returning from FGW were supposed to take 2x 158 off Maesteg - Cheltenham. That might make an all-day hourly service possible. Personally I think, in addition to the present half past the odd hour Aberystwyth departures, there should be half past the even hour services from 08:30am to 06:30pm (and maybe at a push 08:30pm). I also feel the present trains should remain in their current form, with the portion to/from the Cambrian coast, and I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible to do that after extra services have been added (the extras wouldn't have a coast portion of course).

I'm thinking that, with the Cambrian shut, Wednesday might be a good time to photograph a 158 in Pembrokeshire. The question is, do I go to Fishguard, Haverfordwest or Whitland?

 

[The Planner]

Out at the level crossing I think one of the numbers on these signs was 80, so is Aberystwyth level crossing to Borth/Machynlleth 80mph now?

Should be 80km/h, thus about 50mph. The 158s should be out testing it works, otherwise it would be a bit pointless it being shut for a week.

 

[Pacerpilot]

I'm thinking that, with the Cambrian shut, Wednesday might be a good time to photograph a 158 in Pembrokeshire. The question is, do I go to Fishguard, Haverfordwest or Whitland?

Fishguard will be unlikely to be a 158. Its formed at Cardiff from the 09.42 Bridgend - Cardiff via the VoG which in turn is the back working from the 07.38 Merthyr - Bridgend and only 150s and 14x units are cleared North of Taffs Well.

 

[Greenback]

Unlikely, but it can be a 158. I've been on a day Fishguard 158 twice - not bad as I;ve only used that train three times!

 

[anthony263]

Been a few class 158's working the Manchester - Milford Haven route so far this week with a pacer also on the Swansea - Pembroke Dock service

 

[Gareth Marston]

Been a few class 158's working the Manchester - Milford Haven route so far this week with a pacer also on the Swansea - Pembroke Dock service

Expect to see more once another 175 is doing a Holyhead to Cardiff diagram.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Expect to see more once another 175 is doing a Holyhead to Cardiff diagram.

So the Cambrian being shut isn't going to add to the 158s down here? And what about the 158 refurbishment, is that going to reduce their appearances?

I went out today to try and see a 158 in Pembrokeshire, the 10:34, 12:22 and 14:22 at Haverfordwest were all 175s, Fishguard was a 150 as normal. No Score. I noticed new seat covers on one of the 175s, I hope the refurbished 175s also have some extra padding on the seats as well, they seemed really hard last time I traveled on one (unrefurbished) (I had just come off a FGW 158 at the time).

 

[krus_aragon]

There are new signs, red circle with black fill and two numbers. Apart from the fill colour, they look like a speed sign, the type giving both Sprinter linespeed and the linespeed for everything else.

If I remember my signs correctly, those will be metric linespeeds for ETRMS. As mentioned above, 80kph is almost exactly 50mph.

 

[Gareth Marston]

So the Cambrian being shut isn't going to add to the 158s down here? And what about the 158 refurbishment, is that going to reduce their appearances?

I went out today to try and see a 158 in Pembrokeshire, the 10:34, 12:22 and 14:22 at Haverfordwest were all 175s, Fishguard was a 150 as normal. No Score. I noticed new seat covers on one of the 175s, I hope the refurbished 175s also have some extra padding on the seats as well, they seemed really hard last time I traveled on one (unrefurbished) (I had just come off a FGW 158 at the time).

Regular traveler/observers know that as it is ATW cant always get enough 175's out the depot every day to run all existing Holyhead /Cdf, Manchester/Cdf and Llandudno/Manchester diagrams. You'll find a 158 somewhere in the mix every day and 150's on Holyhead turns are not unknown. With another 175 being taken the chances are more likely that they'll pop up.
Last summer ATW was able to strengthen some North Wales coast turns to 4 car 158's - I doubt with the refurb and WAG 2 that this will happen this year. Spotting a 158 @ Haverfordwest may add interest but an overcrowded train at Rhyl will be the consequence.

 

[merlodlliw]

Regular traveler/observers know that as it is ATW cant always get enough 175's out the depot every day to run all existing Holyhead /Cdf, Manchester/Cdf and Llandudno/Manchester diagrams. You'll find a 158 somewhere in the mix every day and 150's on Holyhead turns are not unknown. With another 175 being taken the chances are more likely that they'll pop up.
Last summer ATW was able to strengthen some North Wales coast turns to 4 car 158's - I doubt with the refurb and WAG 2 that this will happen this year. Spotting a 158 @ Haverfordwest may add interest but an overcrowded train at Rhyl will be the consequence.

You are correct about North Wales coast, WAG2 175 will be pinched from somewhere, so a 158 will be a replacement(if you are lucky) and of course
a 150 set loaned to Northern will not help.

I have seen the chronic overcrowding at Rhyl, if ATW revert back to two car 158s they will arrive from Junction pax already standing,plus many CDF/HDD are already 158s.

Bob

 

[anthony263]

You are correct about North Wales coast, WAG2 175 will be pinched from somewhere, so a 158 will be a replacement(if you are lucky) and of course
a 150 set loaned to Northern will not help.

I have seen the chronic overcrowding at Rhyl, if ATW revert back to two car 158s they will arrive from Junction pax already standing,plus many CDF/HDD are already 158s.

Bob

Another problem is that ATW still have the 2 class 150's on loan to FGW, These i belive were supposed to be returned once FGW had the class 150's from London midland.

But considering that London midland have only just got the 1st 2 class 172's only 1 of which i think has been fitted with seats i cant see FGW getting any london midland class 150's till september at the earliest

 

[fermit]

Gareth's info on the grass is interesting,anybody in that area started growing an extra ear yet?.

A friend of mine was growing oats in the fields next to the railway last year - she seems normal.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The bags are off... Was at Aberystywth station today, and they have taken the bags off the new signs, so I presume that means ERTMS has been switched on (although the line will closed for a while still I've heard on here).

Plenty of trains have been running up and down between Machnylleth and Aberystwyth for the last few days.

A 158 was there in the loop, which suprised me (I didn't think any 158s would be doing anything on the Cambrian while it is shut) and to my anoyance somebody has put up a "passengers must not pass this point" sign halfway along the platform.

It ran empty from Mach and was one of the last RETB signalled trains, as for the sign the security guard hired to protect the 158 didn't mind me walking past it - I presume it's to protect Arriva if you trip up on the lumpy platform. :roll:

one. The VOR are also building a new shed a little further up the line, anyone know why?

A new running shed for the VOR locos and a place to do restoration on other locos.

 

[the-gog]

Westbury Loop was taken out in the 1990s, ostensibly because of appalling reception problems with RETB making its use as a Token Exchange Point problematic, to say the least. No doubt cost effectiveness played its part too.

No reason under ERTMS why it shouldn't go back in, other than the incredibly huge expense which seems to accompany such projects.

There were firm rumours only a few years ago that Westbury would regain a loop, and Sutton Bridge Jct to Hookagate would also be re-doubled. Evidently nothing came of it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Buttington Jnc to Forden was double track

Yebut, nobut. A good friend of mine is a snapper, like his father, and his father snapped, well, pretty much everywhere, but also Welshpool to Buttington Jct. Going from what I've been told, while it looked like it was double track from Welshpool to Buttington Jct, it was effectively two single lines laid parallel to each other, both being bi-directionally signalled as well. The north line handled traffic to/from Oswestry, the south line handled the Shrewsbury traffic.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Never understood why they didn't extend the Welshpool loop both sides of the station, as far as Buttington to the east.

Apparently, because of the condition of what we call the "Buttington arches", just to the east of the river bridge.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yebut, nobut. A good friend of mine is a snapper, like his father, and his father snapped, well, pretty much everywhere, but also Welshpool to Buttington Jct. Going from what I've been told, while it looked like it was double track from Welshpool to Buttington Jct, it was effectively two single lines laid parallel to each other, both being bi-directionally signalled as well. The north line handled traffic to/from Oswestry, the south line handled the Shrewsbury traffic.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


From 1960 when intermediate stations between Welshpool and Shrewsbury closed including Buttington Jnc, was proper double until then. Allowed the box to close at Buttington Jnc. Was singled after Oswestry line closed in 65. The eastern Shrewsbury side or original DOWN line was kept.

Hence your early 60's snapper was snapping something already altered.