Access to old Manchester Victoria from north side

[Springs Branch]

Here's a question about the "old" Manchester Victoria - pre construction of the MEN Arena above.......

Was there ever an official passenger entrance/exit point on the northern side of the old station, direct from Platform 16 to New Bridge Street?

Reason for asking is I had an uncle who commuted for years from Bolton to Man Vic up to the early 80s and worked in an office just up Cheetham Hill Road. He said he never had to walk "the long way around" from his train (via the main concourse & Long Millgate), as there was a short-cut.

Does anyone know if there was any legitimate ticket barrier from New Bridge Street, or whether he was using some unofficial staff or parcels entrance - week in, week out for many years?

I travelled to the rambling old station myself during the 1980s, but never bothered looking for this "short cut" at the time. My uncle passed away years ago, so I can't ask him.

 

[jp4712]

Absolutely! There was indeed a ticket barrier - but in my time, in the 1980s, there was no ticket office there. You could only go that way if you already had your ticket.

I took the picture below in 1983. Football specials used to arrive at platform 16 so the supporters could get straight on to the buses waiting for them on New Bailey Street.

Paul


Greater Manchester 1123, New Bailey St, April 1983 by jp4712, on Flickr

 

[snail]

Football specials used to arrive at platform 16 so the supporters could get straight on to the buses waiting for them on New Bailey Street.

<pedant mode>
It was New Bridge Street. New Bailey Street is adjacent to Salford Central station.

 

[table38]

I've attached an old map, but it's a bit huge so not ideal for mobile devices, sorry!

 

[Springs Branch]

Thanks for the info guys.

Presumably the barrier to New Bridge Street was only open part-time, during daytime in the 1970s and 80s.

I'd imagine it would be a pretty lonely, dangerous job being the sole ticket inspector there after dark, given that part of Strangeways was lonelier, more isolated and blighted back then than it is now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just a brief aside....

Was the road access from Victoria Street that led to the island platforms 12 and 13 only ever used for goods access or was there ever a ticket barrier there at the top of the incline ?

 

[Welshman]

I used platforms 12/13 frequently in my younger days, from about 1958-1966, as that was the platform normally used by trains too/from the Calder Valley.

While I remember the fencing and gate towards the west end of the island, I cannot remember there being any foot access/egress for passengers that way, so always used the steps, the subway and the incline to the barriers on the concourse adjacent platform 11.

 

[jp4712]

I used the New Bridge Street 'back door' many times in the 1980s but although I knew where the ramp was, I never used it - I recall a big sign written sign saying 'no public entry' at the bottom of the ramp.

 

[Springs Branch]

Just a brief aside....

Was the road access from Victoria Street that led to the island platforms 12 and 13 ........

Slipping briefly into pedant mode, was this access point technically from Great Ducie Street (the A56 changing from Victoria Street to Great Ducie St as it passes beneath the railway)?

 

[jp4712]

Yes, it was actually in Great Ducie Street a few yards from the junction with New Bridge Street. I even recall Scammell Scarabs in yellow waiting to enter the traffic there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I love the Manchester archive photo website...

In the first image, you're standing facing south towards the Victoria/Exchange bridge, and the Arena is now to your left. The curve round of the kerb at the extreme left of the shot is not the junction with New Bridge Street, but with the ramp up the platforms 12/13.

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web...hp?irn=79848&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=78798

Standing at the bottom of the ramp, this was the view:

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web...php?irn=10232&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=1748

No Scammell Scarab, but a Karrier Bantam in BR yellow does the job!

If you then walked up the roadway a few yards, you'd get a better view of the bridge carrying platforms 13 to 16 over the ramp.

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web...hp?irn=59904&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=62943

Meanwhile if you walked around the corner into New Bridge Street, you'd find the original topic of this thread: the direct entrance to platform 16. I'm not sure if the van on the left is a Bedford or an Austin as they had similar designs for a while, but the one on the right is definitely a Dennis - possible an 'Ace'. This view is looking more-or-less due south towards Great Ducie Street and Exchange station.

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web...hp?irn=59912&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=62993

But if you stood in the same place and swivelled left, what did we find? The fabled 'back door'! The brick and glass hut here looks postwar, which fits as this side of the station suffered very badly in the Christmas blitz of 1940. I recall that little hut well, I presented my ticket there many times. The photo on the link below was taken from platform 15 looking north west. I remember well that you didn't actually go through the hut - there was a little gate just to the right passing next to it.

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web...hp?irn=59946&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=63011

Ah, happy days...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Slipping briefly into pedant mode, was this access point technically from Great Ducie Street (the A56 changing from Victoria Street to Great Ducie St as it passes beneath the railway)?

Of course, you are right. It has always confused me as to the exact point where the road name actually changed.

 

[Bevan Price]

I used platforms 12/13 frequently in my younger days, from about 1958-1966, as that was the platform normally used by trains too/from the Calder Valley.

While I remember the fencing and gate towards the west end of the island, I cannot remember there being any foot access/egress for passengers that way, so always used the steps, the subway and the incline to the barriers on the concourse adjacent platform 11.

Yes, at one time there was passenger access to platforms 12/13 via the ramp. I seem to recall a wooden hut for a ticket collector at the barrier gate. I don't remember any ticket (selling) office there.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, at one time there was passenger access to platforms 12/13 via the ramp. I seem to recall a wooden hut for a ticket collector at the barrier gate. I don't remember any ticket (selling) office there.

That seems to ask the question I posed in posting # 6. Thank you.

 

[Springs Branch]

It's the OP back again. Thanks to everyone for this extremely informative discussion & attached images.

I'd never quite realised the extent of all the "back office" infrastructure at Victoria. Although I shouldn't be surprised, since they didn't do things by halves in those days, even if it did all get very shabby post-WW2.

Thanks to Paul for mentioning the Platform 12/13 entry. I knew there was something there, but assumed it was some sort of minor subway ramp - not such a substantial roadway. I guess this would be busy with newspaper lorries coming & going through the early hours delivering papers for loading on Platforms 12 & 13.

 

[Darren R]

Just a brief aside....

Was the road access from Victoria Street that led to the island platforms 12 and 13 only ever used for goods access or was there ever a ticket barrier there at the top of the incline ?

The ramp up to platforms 12 and 13 was constructed as part of the 1884 redevelopment, and originally had further ramps leading off it up to platforms 14/15, and 16/17. At the top of the main incline was a building which housed seven ticket windows to serve the LYR and a further one to serve the Midland; above (in the room behind the clocks) was the Station Master's Office. Platforms 16 and 17 were provided with waiting rooms but no booking office. The incline up to 12/13 had space for up to 30 cabs, and a cabmens' shelter was provided on one side and an excursion booking office on the other.

In 1912 the station was 'closed,' at which time the incline was closed, luggage lifts provided, and the platform was extended over part of the area. Only passengers with a valid ticket or a platform ticket were allowed entry this way; the latter could be bought from a dedicated machine near the barriers. The ticket office on platform 12/13 remained in use until the blitz in 1940, after which all ticket booking facilities were concentrated at the main booking office.

 

[Par]

I came across this rather wonderful panorama showing platforms 12-16 in the final dog days before demolition and the construction of the arena.

Platforms 12/13 ramp complete with van, and what appears to be the OP's exit into the car park from P16, are shown clearly.

Not sure what the structure is on P16, a shelter erected late into the station's life maybe?

 

[Mike99]

I came across this rather wonderful panorama showing platforms 12-16 in the final dog days before demolition and the construction of the arena.

Platforms 12/13 ramp complete with van, and what appears to be the OP's exit into the car park from P16, are shown clearly.

Not sure what the structure is on P16, a shelter erected late into the station's life maybe?

If you use the above link and then scroll down the page there is a further link to a flickr page of about 20 photos of Victoria

 

[edwin_m]

I came across this rather wonderful panorama showing platforms 12-16 in the final dog days before demolition and the construction of the arena.

Platforms 12/13 ramp complete with van, and what appears to be the OP's exit into the car park from P16, are shown clearly.

Not sure what the structure is on P16, a shelter erected late into the station's life maybe?

What's the dead-end viaduct in the background?

 

[Ash Bridge]

What's the dead-end viaduct in the background?

I think it is known as New Allen St. Viaduct, which lead to the former Oldham Road Goods Depot. Most of the site of which is now Manchester Mail Centre.

Sorry about about that duff information, was looking at the route East of Victoria at the time on Google Earth

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What's the dead-end viaduct in the background?

It is the covered brick-built area that the iconic platform 17 served and not a viaduct. If you count outwards from the roadway to platforms 12 and 13, this makes it clear where the location lies.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think it is known as New Allen St. Viaduct, which lead to the former Oldham Road Goods Depot. Most of the site of which is now Manchester Mail Centre.

Not so, as the New Allen Street viaduct ran from the running lines which bifurcated in the area leading to Miles Platting, which was totally in the opposite direction from the view shown in the image in the link, which looks across the platforms 12 to 17 area and onwards toward the prison at Strangeways.

However you are correct with the information that you stated about the New Allen Street viaduct, originally constructed as a 72 chain length two running line connection from Oldham Road junction by the Manchester and Leeds Railway to their terminal station of Manchester Oldham Road, built in 1839, which served as such until the link was built that saw Manchester Victoria station served by connectional lines that joined the Liverpool and Manchester Railway to the Manchester and Leeds Railway in 1844, That meant that Oldham Road station effectively became a goods terminus and in the period onwards, a very large goods handling area with many lines was laid out. To facilitate the large extra areas, New Allen Street viaduct was later widened to a four running lane viaduct. The bridges over roads such as Livesey Street and Reather Street on the original viaduct had large stone blocks, but the later addition was constructed in brick, up to the area of the rail bed. The Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway was the successor of the Manchester and Leeds Railway. Just past Livesey Street was a junctional incline that allowed trains to descend to the level of the main goods station layout. The arch areas under the viaduct were used as enclosed storage areas for many companies including those of the Wholesale Fruit Market that was based a short distance away in Shude Hill.

In 1916, Manchester Oldham Road goods depot, as it was then known, was completely rebuilt by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, save for the early passenger station building which was retained. Separate product areas called shed were constructed with full handling facilities and there were known as the Fruit Shed, the Provision Shed, the Fish Shed, the Cloth Shed, the Grain Shed and the Potato Shed. There were also two large areas known as the Shipping Shed and the Delivery Shed.

 

[edwin_m]

It is the covered brick-built area that the iconic platform 17 served and not a viaduct. If you count outwards from the roadway to platforms 12 and 13, this makes it clear where the location lies.

Ah, that makes sense thanks Paul. What looks a bit like a viaduct with shrubbery on top is actually a long curved building with a grey roof and various large entrances that vaguely resemble bridge spans.

 

[Springs Branch]

It is the covered brick-built area that the iconic platform 17 served ........

Ah, good old Platform 17.

How long did this one remain in use?
Was No. 17 abandoned some time before the big demolition and re-construction at Victoria?

Trains Annual 1963 has an excellent 14 page article on Manchester Victoria & Exchange in the early 1960s (except it neglects to mention any of the interesting road access points brought up in this thread). It states "Platform 17, a dead-end, is used for parcels traffic exclusively, except for one Friday night passenger train to Todmorden for about two months in the summer". This was 50 years ago.

This use makes sense, as it would be very easy for parcels lorries to drive directly onto Platform 17 to/from New Bridge Street, without many pesky passengers getting in the way.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This use makes sense, as it would be very easy for parcels lorries to drive directly onto Platform 17 to/from New Bridge Street, without many pesky passengers getting in the way.

In the brick wall that separated platforms 16 and 17, there were a number of quite wide openings where the railway platform trolleys could bring goods in and out of the protective brick train shed that was there on platform 17.

 

[theblackwatch]

Ah, good old Platform 17.

How long did this one remain in use?
Was No. 17 abandoned some time before the big demolition and re-construction at Victoria?

Trains Annual 1963 has an excellent 14 page article on Manchester Victoria & Exchange in the early 1960s (except it neglects to mention any of the interesting road access points brought up in this thread). It states "Platform 17, a dead-end, is used for parcels traffic exclusively, except for one Friday night passenger train to Todmorden for about two months in the summer". This was 50 years ago.

This use makes sense, as it would be very easy for parcels lorries to drive directly onto Platform 17 to/from New Bridge Street, without many pesky passengers getting in the way.

I frequented Man Vic in the 1980s and can't remember there being a 'Platform 17' - I'm pretty sure all the signs only went up to 16. The place really has changed beyond recognition now, it would be interesting to see what this view (as linked earlier in the thread) looks like now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I frequented Man Vic in the 1980s and can't remember there being a 'Platform 17' - I'm pretty sure all the signs only went up to 16. The place really has changed beyond recognition now, it would be interesting to see what this view (as linked earlier in the thread) looks like now.

That is why platform 16 was the highest numbered passenger platform, but it does not alter the fact that platform 17 was well and truly there, having the Bridge Street side wall abutment of the station infrastructure making the enclosed area somewhat foreboding to the younger trainspotting elements.

If you disembarked on platform 16 when coming off services that had passed through the western approaches (as many services used platform 16 for this purpose) and walked up the platform towards the Cheetham Hill Road overbridge, you would have noticed that there was a track on your left hand side, which was that which went into the east facing bay platform 17.

 

[table38]

The place really has changed beyond recognition now, it would be interesting to see what this view (as linked earlier in the thread) looks like now.

It's a bit cluttered up with the roads, but you can get an idea of what the west end of the station is like now from Bing maps here. At least the Boddingtons Brewery and Strangeways Chimneys are still there!

There are some other pictures here:
http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/v/manchester2006/aa02234b-men-arena.jpg.html

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's a bit cluttered up with the roads, but you can get an idea of what the west end of the station is like now from Bing maps here. At least the Boddingtons Brewery and Strangeways Chimneys are still there!

There are some other pictures here:
http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/v/manchester2006/aa02234b-men-arena.jpg.html

Wasn't the Boddingtons Brewery demolished in 2007?

 

[theblackwatch]

That is why platform 16 was the highest numbered passenger platform, but it does not alter the fact that platform 17 was well and truly there, having the Bridge Street side wall abutment of the station infrastructure making the enclosed area somewhat foreboding to the younger trainspotting elements.

If you disembarked on platform 16 when coming off services that had passed through the western approaches (as many services used platform 16 for this purpose) and walked up the platform towards the Cheetham Hill Road overbridge, you would have noticed that there was a track on your left hand side, which was that which went into the east facing bay platform 17.

I do remember there being a track there, and seem to recall there was sometime a 40 parked in there. However, I'd never considered it to be a platform as such.

Can anyone advise when the old trainshed was actually demolished? The last visit I can remember when it was still there was in July 1992 when I went across for 37065 on a Manchester-Blackpool Summer Saturday service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Trains Annual 1963 has an excellent 14 page article on Manchester Victoria & Exchange in the early 1960s (except it neglects to mention any of the interesting road access points brought up in this thread). It states "Platform 17, a dead-end, is used for parcels traffic exclusively, except for one Friday night passenger train to Todmorden for about two months in the summer". This was 50 years ago. This use makes sense, as it would be very easy for parcels lorries to drive directly onto Platform 17 to/from New Bridge Street, without many pesky passengers getting in the way.

This was one regular usage of platform 17 in those far-off days.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

On Network Northwest day in c1991 they had a brand new Class 158 parked on 17 for public nosing

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