Accessible TFW replacement coaches

[markymark2000]

Of course if the railway contracts toilets they are in breach of contract by doing so, so always be sure to report it if you see this done.

I believe that it isn't requested else that would rule out most operators.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe that it isn't requested else that would rule out most operators.

Perhaps it needs to sort that out, then, because Crohn's and urinary frequency issues are a disability and are also more likely with age, so failure to ensure the provision of toilets when these are normally provided on trains is both age and disability discrimination, and as most coaches have toilets ensuring they are in use is definitely a reasonable adjustment.

 

[markymark2000]

Perhaps it needs to sort that out, then, because Crohn's and urinary frequency issues are a disability and are also more likely with age, so failure to ensure the provision of toilets when these are normally provided on trains is both age and disability discrimination, and as most coaches have toilets ensuring they are in use is definitely a reasonable adjustment.

Toilets are available at stations. Trains can run without toilets so why can't coaches. Merseyrail have no toilets for example on trains.
Also, trains run often with disabled toilets locked out.

That's before you go into other modes of transport.


If there was a genuine need, I'm sure most drivers would open the toilet for the person but to leave it open all the time for anyone, you have to understand how disgusting the public are. One driver, and I quote 'i don't understand how human waste got that high, even if someone was doing a handstand, it wouldn't get that high'.

Tramps ruin it and given its normally the drivers responsibility to clean the coach, why would they leave the toilets open so that tramps can trash it and cause the driver more work needlessly. Add to that, toilet tanks are small, it doesn't take much to fill it. Leaving it open means more emptying the tanks which again, is more work and costs.

It adds up. If there is a need, 95% of drivers would accommodate that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So making things easier for coach companies is more important than passenger comfort in your view.

That speaks volumes about the coach industry if you work in it or that's a general view.

 

[43066]

So making things easier for coach companies is more important than passenger comfort in your view.

That speaks volumes about the coach industry if you work in it or that's a general view.

To be fair there are trains running around with no toilets on board whatsoever. Not sure what that says about the railway industry!

 

[markymark2000]

So making things easier for coach companies is more important than passenger comfort in your view.

That speaks volumes about the coach industry.

How would you like to clean someone else's human waste off the toilet wall? I can put you in touch with a few people if you fancy giving it a try. It's a regular thing to happen on rail rep for some odd reason.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair there are trains running around with no toilets on board whatsoever. Not sure what that says about the railway industry!

Relatively few, and only those designed for very short journeys.

How would you like to clean someone else's human waste off the toilet wall? I can put you in touch with a few people if you fancy giving it a try. It's a regular thing to happen on rail rep for some odd reason.

That isn't my problem any more than cleaning vomit off the floor of a late evening train is.

 

[markymark2000]

That isn't my problem.

Who's problem is it then? Driver can't control who uses the toilet if it's unlocked as the driver should be concentrating on the road, not being a toilet monitor.

If people can't be trusted to use the toilets, they get locked. Same happens with all public toilets. If people trash them, they get locked and/or taken away.

 

[43066]

That isn't my problem.

Some people do have to do it, though. And generally get paid a pittance for doing so.

Who's problem is it then? Driver can't control who uses the toilet if it's unlocked as the driver should be concentrating on the road, not being a toilet monitor.

If people can't be trusted to use the toilets, they get locked. Same happens with all public toilets. If people trash them, they get locked and/or taken away.

I completely understand that. Sadly people behave like animals. I’ve heard some truly shocking stories on the railway and can imagine coaches are worse given the demographic using them (no offence intended, but it’s true).

 

[CyrusWuff]

I completely understand that. Sadly people behave like animals. I’ve heard some truly shocking stories on the railway and can imagine coaches are worse given the demographic using them (no offence intended, but it’s true).

A friend of mine is a coach driver. Following a recent trip to Blackpool (IIRC), the coach was that bad they had to dump it back at the yard with both doors open to air it out before they could even think about cleaning it.

And even then they pretty much had to don HAZMAT gear...

 

[43066]

A friend of mine is a coach driver. Following a recent trip to Blackpool (IIRC), the coach was that bad they had to dump it back at the yard with both doors open to air it out before they could even think about cleaning it.

And even then they pretty much had to don HAZMAT gear...

One of my better railway stories was the guard telling me we would be delayed departing due to waiting for an “industrial cleaner”. On the train’s inbound journey someone had made a nest of toilet paper right next to the toilet (in the passenger saloon), evacuated their bowels into it, and fallen asleep next to it.

 

[TUC]

Perhaps it needs to sort that out, then, because Crohn's and urinary frequency issues are a disability and are also more likely with age, so failure to ensure the provision of toilets when these are normally provided on trains is both age and disability discrimination, and as most coaches have toilets ensuring they are in use is definitely a reasonable adjustment.

I very much agree. TOCs need to ensure that rail replacement vehicles either provide accessible facilities or provide taxis as alternatives, with the instruction to stop at services when the passenger requires it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who's problem is it then?

The coach company.

I'm sure not providing wheelchair access is also more convenient, but the law provides otherwise.

 

[TUC]

A friend of mine is a coach driver. Following a recent trip to Blackpool (IIRC), the coach was that bad they had to dump it back at the yard with both doors open to air it out before they could even think about cleaning it.

And even then they pretty much had to don HAZMAT gear...

I'm sorry to her that but, as ever, the answer isn't to punish all of the other passengers by a lack of toilet facilities,

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some people do have to do it, though. And generally get paid a pittance for doing so.

Some people have to do unpleasant jobs - such is life.

I completely understand that. Sadly people behave like animals. I’ve heard some truly shocking stories on the railway and can imagine coaches are worse given the demographic using them (no offence intended, but it’s true).

I also understand this, but it isn't an excuse for disability discrimination. As for public toilets I do think the statutory duty to provide needs to be reinstated on Councils because non provision in public spaces blocks a considerable number of the population from using them - it hits three protected characteristics - gender (a man can urinate in a bush), age (more likely to have frequency issues) and disability (e.g. Crohn's). I can't think of much else that gets that many.

I'm sorry to her that but, as ever, the answer isn't to punish all of the other passengers by a lack of toilet facilities,

Indeed.

 

[markymark2000]

I very much agree. TOCs need to ensure that rail replacement vehicles either provide accessible facilities or provide taxis as alternatives, with the instruction to stop at services when the passenger requires it.

You then need 2 buses per trip to provide suitable capacity and also I'd argue it's not safe for wheelchairs to be moving into accessible toilets while the bus is in motion.
Train stations are acceptable and most drivers would honour that if needed. Other stops would depend on various other factors.

The coach company.

I'm sure not providing wheelchair access is also more convenient, but the law provides otherwise.

Coach companies provide what is requested. Toilet access isn't needed thought even on private hire, toilets get locked out sometimes. It's down to the individual driver.

Some people have to do unpleasant jobs - such is life.

The job of coach driver doesn't including cleaning human waste of walls. It involves driving coaches and keeping passengers safe.

Don't ask others to do a job you aren't willing to do yourself.

I also understand this, but it isn't an excuse for disability discrimination. As for public toilets I do think the statutory duty to provide needs to be reinstated on Councils because non provision in public spaces blocks a considerable number of the population from using them - it hits three protected characteristics - gender (a man can urinate in a bush), age (more likely to have frequency issues) and disability (e.g. Crohn's). I can't think of much else that gets that many.



Indeed.

It happens everywhere. If people act like tramps, privileges get removed. Whether that be throwing rocks at buses, the route get removed. If toilets get trashed, they get removed. If the local play area gets damaged often, the items get removed.

I'd then add, most companies don't provide toilet paper, that's down to the driver and how do you think the tanks get emptied? They only have a small tank and so need emptying regularly. It's not as simple as go over a drain and drop the waste, you have to go to an approved site and overall, this process can take an hour or so in the case of the Barmouth block as you have to go to Nefyn Coaches, dump, refill tanks and get back. That's basically the whole break gone and the driver NEEDS a 45 min break as the run is too long.

That means you'd need an extra bus all day which costs more money which ultimately comes from taxpayers. More cost all the time for cleaning. All so you can go to the loo whenever you want. There is often time en route to go and that applies to everyone. It's not discrimination if it applies to all, that's equality.

 

[Cowley]

I think the question has probably been answered for now and we’ve ended up discussing things that aren’t really related to the original question.
@Caleb2010 - If you get a reply that you’d be willing to share, please hit the report button on this post and we’ll reopen the thread for an update.

Thanks everyone