Accidentally been using expired Railcard

[takehe1824]

Hi, my situation is as the title reads. I have received my letter today and I'm looking for how to reply in a way that gives the best chance of avoiding court.

I discovered that my Railcard had expired when informed by the ticket officer. This came as a complete shock to me, I have travelled using the Railcard multiple times since its expiry which was months ago. I understand that I only have my own negligence to blame here. Had I known it had expired I would've purchased a new one, which is what I did at the earliest opportunity after learning mine was out of date.

The letter I've received does not contain a fixed penalty which makes me worry that they intend to prosecute. This would be disastrous in my line of work. I am anxious to repay the full amount that I unintentionally received invalid discounts for, plus penalty fines and additional investigation costs.

How should I approach this opportunity to respond with my explanation in order to not receive a criminal record/go to court?

I appreciate any responses that are intended to help. If you feel the need to comment on my stupidity please refrain, I am already aware and worried sick about this situation.

 

[Gloster]

It would help if you could post a copy of the letter. Obscure your name, address, any reference numbers and any other details that might identify you.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@takehe1824. Welcome to the forum. If you engage positively with the train company's investigation team, it should be possible to negotiate a so-called "out of court" settlement, depending, of course, on who the train company is. (Is it Northern or TPE, perhaps?)

Could be expensive though, you might well get asked to pay the full undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare for each and every journey you made using (inappropriately) discounted tickets after your railcard had expired (with a return journey usually calculated as 2 x singles) plus a three figure sum added on top towards their admin and investigation expenses.

Not necessarily the end of the world, though, just rather costly!

P.S. In the meantime, have you now renewed your expired railcard?

 

[Haywain]

Without knowing who you are dealing with we cannot give useful advice.

This would be disastrous in my line of work.

This is rarely the case - if this ends in court the prosecution will be for a relatively minor offence. If you are a member of a trade union or professional body you could ask for guidance on this. In general terms it is seen as more to serious to hide the facts from an employer than to tell them, but if a prosecution id avoided this will all be irrelevant.

I appreciate any responses that are intended to help. If you feel the need to comment on my stupidity please refrain, I am already aware and worried sick about this situation.

You will generally get a sympathetic hearing here, especially for a case of overlooking the renewal of a railcard. If you feel a post is not providing advice or assistance you can use the report button to inform the forum staff.

 

[takehe1824]

It would help if you could post a copy of the letter. Obscure your name, address, any reference numbers and any other details that might identify you.

The letter is as follows:

Dear [Name],

This office acts as the prosecuting authority for Northern Trains Limited.
On [Date Time] you were spoken to by an authorised member of staff in relation to an alleged contravention of Railway Regulations. An evidential report has been submitted to this office regarding this incident. Before the Company proceeds further with its investigations in respect of this matter, we would like to give you the opportunity of responding with your explanation concerning it. Please complete the bottom section of this letter and if you wish to make any comments, please do so on the reverse. Only written mitigation will be accepted.

As you will appreciate, this could be a serious matter; therefore it is imperative that you respond as soon as possible to. ascertain the full facts in this matter. Your response can be sent to [email protected] or the above freepost address. Failure to respond to this reasonable request within 14 days of the date of this letter will result in legal action being taken (Regulation of Railways Act and Railway Bylaws apply*).
Should legal proceedings be invoked, in addition to any fines imposed by the court there will be an application for a minimum of £150 as a contribution to our costs.
*Regulation of Railways Act 1889: shall be liable on a summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 (£1,000) on the standard scale. Or in the discretion of the court to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months. Railway Byelaw offences: shall be liable on a summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 (£1,000) on the standard scale
Yours sincerely

Revenue Enforcement Delivery Manager, Northern Trains Limited

 

[takehe1824]

@takehe1824. Welcome to the forum. If you engage positively with the train company's investigation team, it should be possible to negotiate a so-called "out of court" settlement, depending, of course, on who the train company is. (Is it Northern or TPE, perhaps?)

Could be expensive though, you might well get asked to pay the full undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare for each and every journey you made using (inappropriately) discounted tickets after your railcard had expired (with a return journey usually calculated as 2 x singles) plus a three figure sum added on top towards their admin and investigation expenses.

Not necessarily the end of the world, though, just rather costly!

P.S. In the meantime, have you now renewed your expired railcard?

Hi! It's Northern Rail. I don't mind the expense as it's my own fault - I've calculated the cost of repaying the entirety of each journey I've taken using invalid discounts and should just about be able to manage it + additional costs.

My railcard is now renewed and I've saved the a date 30 days before its expiry.

Without knowing who you are dealing with we cannot give useful advice.

This is rarely the case - if this ends in court the prosecution will be for a relatively minor offence. If you are a member of a trade union or professional body you could ask for guidance on this. In general terms it is seen as more to serious to hide the facts from an employer than to tell them, but if a prosecution id avoided this will all be irrelevant.

You will generally get a sympathetic hearing here, especially for a case of overlooking the renewal of a railcard. If you feel a post is not providing advice or assistance you can use the report button to inform the forum staff.

Hi! Perhaps disastrous was a bit inflated, I work with children so it's really not ideal to have a record (I appreciate it never is regardless of sector). Not part of a union etc, and I don't think there's a professional body I could go to.

 

[Haywain]

Hi! It's Northern Rail. I don't mind the expense as it's my own fault - I've calculated the cost of repaying the entirety of each journey I've taken using invalid discounts and should just about be able to manage it + additional costs.

My railcard is now renewed and I've saved the a date 30 days before its expiry.

Northern Rail usually settle with those who engage with them, and it sounds like you are as prepared as you reasonably can be. If you have held previous railcards it may be worth digging those out or any evidence you have of them as we have seen recently that train companies are looking further back and asking for evidence of previous railcards.

Perhaps disastrous was a bit inflated, I work with children so it's really not ideal to have a record

It's not ideal, but this is unlikely to be considered something that would make you unsuitable for that type of work.

 

[takehe1824]

Northern Rail usually settle with those who engage with them, and it sounds like you are as prepared as you reasonably can be. If you have held previous railcards it may be worth digging those out or any evidence you have of them as we have seen recently that train companies are looking further back and asking for evidence of previous railcards.


It's not ideal, but this is unlikely to be considered something that would make you unsuitable for that type of work.

Thanks! This happens to be my first railcard so no dice there. I got it through signing up for a student bank account so I have admittedly been pretty ignorant to how they usually work.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks! This happens to be my first railcard so no dice there. I got it through signing up for a student bank account so I have admittedly been pretty ignorant to how they usually work.

If you start drafting up your reply to the letter you have got and post it here people will be able to check it for you and suggest improvements - see other threads with posts from @Hadders for a short list of the structure you should use in such replies

gist is:
- apologise for what has happened
- explain it was an oversight (ie you are not an intentional fare evader)
- state what you have done to prevent it happening again (bought new R-card, set renewal reminder date)
- offer to pay what you owe
- ask if they will kindly consider settling the matter without it needing to be dealt with in court (ie an out of court settlement)

Hope this helps

 

[takehe1824]

If you start drafting up your reply to the letter you have got and post it here people will be able to check it for you and suggest improvements - see other threads with posts from @Hadders for a short list of the structure you should use in such replies

gist is:
- apologise for what has happened
- explain it was an oversight (ie you are not an intentional fare evader)
- state what you have done to prevent it happening again (bought new R-card, set renewal reminder date)
- offer to pay what you owe
- ask if they will kindly consider settling the matter without it needing to be dealt with in court (ie an out of court settlement)

Hope this helps

Thank you! I am working on a draft now

Here's my current draft:

To whom it may concern,


I am writing in response to the initial contact letter I have received regarding alleged contravention of Railway Regulations. On [Date] I was made aware by an authorised member of staff that my 16-25 Railcard had expired upon the inspection of my ticket and railcard both of which I willingly provided. I was shocked to learn of its expiry and sickened in the knowledge that I had used it multiple times in the months since. I apologise profusely for doing so - I understand the gravity of this and that I only have my own negligence to blame. I can attest that my intention has at no point been to evade train fares using a railcard and I have since purchased a new one at the earliest opportunity, as well as setting a reminder a month prior to my current railcards expiry to prevent this ever happening again. I am anxious to repay the full amount that I unintentionally received invalid discounts for, plus penalty fines and any additional costs the investigation may incur. I ask for your consideration in settling this matter outside of court.


Apologies and thank you for your time, [Name]

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you! I am working on a draft now

Here's my current draft:

To whom it may concern,


I am writing in response to the initial contact letter I have received regarding alleged contravention of Railway Regulations. On [Date] I was made aware by an authorised member of staff that my 16-25 Railcard had expired upon the inspection of my ticket and railcard both of which I willingly provided. I was shocked to learn of its expiry and sickened in the knowledge that I had used it multiple times in the months since. I apologise profusely for doing so - I understand the gravity of this and that I only have my own negligence to blame. I can attest that my intention has at no point been to evade train fares using a railcard and I have since purchased a new one at the earliest opportunity, as well as setting a reminder a month prior to my current railcards expiry to prevent this ever happening again. I am anxious to repay the full amount that I unintentionally received invalid discounts for, plus penalty fines and any additional costs the investigation may incur. I ask for your consideration in settling this matter outside of court.


Apologies and thank you for your time, [Name]

I would not offer to pay Penalty Fines as well (because the process is more either / or - they can issue a Penalty Fare but did not do this presumably, they don't then issue them later on as part of this process, or they can agree settlement out of court through payment of fares owed + admin charge (usually c£150), but you don't want to be paying for new tickets plus a penalty fare type sum for every occasion you might have travelled by mistake with your expired Railcard) .

 

[takehe1824]

I would not offer to pay Penalty Fines as well (because the process is more either / or - they can issue a Penalty Fare but did not do this presumably, they don't then issue them later on as part of this process, or they can agree settlement out of court through payment of fares owed + admin charge (usually c£150), but you don't want to be paying for new tickets plus a penalty fare type sum for every occasion you might have travelled by mistake with your expired Railcard) .

okay thank you for this info! That part now reads '...invalid discounts for, plus any additional costs the investigation may incur'.