Accused of reusing a open return ticket

[Adam1997]

Hi all,
Hope you are all well
Sorry to bother but I was travelling back from London Euston earlier today with an open return valid for one month. The ticket was part of an anytime return I brought on Wednesday for a work conference instead of travelling back on Wednesday. I travelled back the next day and booked a cheaper ticket for the journey back on Thursday. As I hadn’t used the return from the “anytime return ticket” nor was it scanned in any barrier I was under the impression that I could still use it as I hadn’t used it. Today I travelled back from London again using said ticket and as it had “expired” in my Apple wallet I was accused of having reused it by a inspector at London Euston and had to rebuy another ticket. The return portion is valid until March and it hasn’t been scanned by any inspector. Was I in the wrong ? Or should I make a complaint ?

 

[alistairlees]

Hi all,
Hope you are all well
Sorry to bother but I was travelling back from London Euston earlier today with an open return valid for one month. The ticket was part of an anytime return I brought on Wednesday for a work conference instead of travelling back on Wednesday. I travelled back the next day and booked a cheaper ticket for the journey back on Thursday. As I hadn’t used the return from the “anytime return ticket” nor was it scanned in any barrier I was under the impression that I could still use it as I hadn’t used it. Today I travelled back from London again using said ticket and as it had “expired” in my Apple wallet I was accused of having reused it by a inspector at London Euston and had to rebuy another ticket. The return portion is valid until March and it hasn’t been scanned by any inspector. Was I in the wrong ? Or should I make a complaint ?

If you hadn't previously used the return portion of the Anytime Return, and it is still valid, then I can't see how you could be in the wrong. You should claim the money back so you are no worse off than you would have been otherwise.

 

[gordonthemoron]

You can retrieve tickets in the wallet that have expired

 

[Adam1997]

You can retrieve tickets in the wallet that have expired

Oh yes I know but I was in a rush to get to the platform to get too the unreserved seating coach so I just quickly got it out and showed it from the expired pass section on my wallet

If you hadn't previously used the return portion of the Anytime Return, and it is still valid, then I can't see how you could be in the wrong. You should claim the money back so you are no worse off than you would have been otherwise.

Thank you since the ticket has been used I may just use it for a day trip later. After glancing the forum I imagine it’s common practice for people to fraudulently reuse an open return ticket.

Oh yes I know but I was in a rush to get to the platform to get too the unreserved seating coach so I just quickly got it out and showed it from the expired pass section on my wallet


Thank you since the ticket has been used I may just use it for a day trip later. After glancing the forum I imagine it’s common practice for people to fraudulently reuse an open return ticket.

Hasn’t been used *

 

[Chrisgr31]

If you can demonstrate what tickets you have used and purchased then I would complain. Its more difficult if you cant prove what you bought to do the other legs

 

[kacper]

If you can demonstrate what tickets you have used and purchased then I would complain. Its more difficult if you cant prove what you bought to do the other legs

surely the train company should be proving that OP used the ticket, not them proving they they didn’t reuse it

 

[fandroid]

Apple wallets are doing their users no favours if they show a ticket as expired, when they aren't.

My Google wallet has the opposite problem, showing return portions as valid when they have actually been used. They don't go into the expired section until their last validity date has gone.

I'm puzzled by this. Can other iPhone users confirm that this early expiry trick really does happen?

 

[AlterEgo]

Apple wallets are doing their users no favours if they show a ticket as expired, when they aren't.

My Google wallet has the opposite problem, showing return portions as valid when they have actually been used. They don't go into the expired section until their last validity date has gone.

I'm puzzled by this. Can other iPhone users confirm that this early expiry trick really does happen?

I have not had this happen to me - open returns stay "valid" until expiry in my experience, but nearly all my flexible tickets are purchased on the forum's site. I don't know if that makes a difference here.

 

[Haywain]

My Google wallet has the opposite problem, showing return portions as valid when they have actually been used. They don't go into the expired section until their last validity date has gone.

Which is the right thing to do as the eTicket contains no record of it having been used.

 

[MrJeeves]

I could imagine that whichever retailer you bought the ticket from had set the ticket to "expire" after your booked journey, which is what happened to it in your Apple Wallet.

 

[Adam1997]

I could imagine that whichever retailer you bought the ticket from had set the ticket to "expire" after your booked journey, which is what happened to it in your Apple Wallet.

Funnily enough I booked it directly from the Aventi west coast website which makes this even more ridiculous.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is this an eTicket or mTicket? LNER moved away from mTickets on the flows for this vey reason.

 

[sansyy]

I actually have the opposite problem! I still have tickets from August 2023 in my Apple wallet since they won’t go away, makes organisation a pain.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I actually have the opposite problem! I still have tickets from August 2023 in my Apple wallet since they won’t go away, makes organisation a pain.

Just delete them. Tap the ticket, tap ... in a circle at the top right, tap Remove Pass.

 

[sansyy]

Just delete them. Tap the ticket, tap ... in a circle at the top right, tap Remove Pass.

Thanks

 

[sheff1]

I'm puzzled by this. Can other iPhone users confirm that this early expiry trick really does happen?

Yes, tickets with return validity are moved the the 'expired' section of Apple Wallet once the outward day has passed. Easy enough to move back to the active section though.

However, I don't see why it should matter which section of the Wallet the ticket is displayed in - surely a ticket inspection scan would read the barcode and confirm its validity, as it would if a PDF was saved on the phone or printed out ?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Yes, tickets with return validity are moved the the 'expired' section of Apple Wallet once the outward day has passed. Easy enough to move back to the active section though.

However, I don't see why it should matter which section of the Wallet the ticket is displayed in - surely a ticket inspection scan would read the QR code and confirm its validity, as it would if a PDF was saved on the phone or printed out ?

Would the inspector say a ticket was used if you fished it out of the bin? A CCST, maybe, but a printed e-ticket surely they'd scan it to check? That said, I suspect if you said "threw the wrong one out" as you fished a CCST out of the bin, they'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[The exile]

There’s a simple solution…

 

[AlterEgo]

There’s a simple solution…

It’s for retailers to stop automatically marking return portions as used after the booked departure.

 

[robbeech]

surely the train company should be proving that OP used the ticket, not them proving they they didn’t reuse it

Unfortunately that isn’t how the railway operates today. You are guilty of every railway offence until you can prove otherwise, and it’s the railway’s job to make it as difficult as it can to prove otherwise. In many cases we now just see people giving up and paying up.

My Google wallet has the opposite problem, showing return portions as valid when they have actually been used. They don't go into the expired section until their last validity date has gone.

This surely should never be classed as a problem.

Funnily enough I booked it directly from the Aventi west coast website which makes this even more ridiculous.

Never underestimate the Railway’s ability to create problems for passengers that turns into potential revenue increase for them. This is usually through incompetence though.

I'm puzzled by this. Can other iPhone users confirm that this early expiry trick really does happen?

I’ll admit I’ve never known it happen, I usually have to remove them myself after I’ve made the journey (or often some time later whilst I’m bored).

Yes, tickets with return validity are moved the the 'expired' section of Apple Wallet once the outward day has passed. Easy enough to move back to the active section though.

There must be either a setting or a difference in how some e-tickets are created in there as mine do not do this.

There’s a simple solution…

Yes, provide actual training to staff on the railway so customers have a better experience. Of course this is discouraged by the railway as providing this training costs money, and the result of this training will be less people stopped and charged new tickets.

(I’m assuming your simple solution is to just use paper tickets)

 

[Deafdoggie]

There’s a simple solution…

Yes. Train staff properly. But it'll never happen.

 

[Haywain]

It’s for retailers to stop automatically marking return portions as used after the booked departure.

Except that this appears to be a problem associated with the wallet app, and not the ticket produced by the retailer.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Off topic, but what are the advantages of using an Apple/Google wallet? I travel from Banbury to Birmingham Snow Hill twice a week, and just open the ticket from the Chiltern website. I do get the message saying "add to Apple Wallet", but never do it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Off topic, but what are the advantages of using an Apple/Google wallet? I travel from Banbury to Birmingham Snow Hill twice a week, and just open the ticket from the Chiltern website. I do get the message saying "add to Apple Wallet", but never do it.

It's just quicker to access the ticket. It comes up on the home screen and is displayed with a single tap.

 

[jfollows]

In addition to the previous post, with which I agree, it's also possible to display the ticket - or rather the Aztec code - on an Apple Watch (with a good enough resolution to scan) if you have one, if it's been placed in the Apple Wallet first. I do this occasionally.

 

[Buzby]

Not only that - the Apple Wallet is echoed on the Apple Watch (if you have one). If there’s a ticket check and I’m already using my phone, rather than faff around switching apps, I use my watch and much prefer this - until I get to a gateline where I’m expected to have long arms or drop to my knees to reach the scanner!

 

[BanburyBlue]

It's just quicker to access the ticket. It comes up on the home screen and is displayed with a single tap.

Okay, so when I open Apple Wallet, it's asking me to scan for app's to add? So how does it work? Ta.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Okay, so when I open Apple Wallet, it's asking me to scan for app's to add? So how does it work? Ta.

When you have bought the ticket, just tap the "Add to Apple Wallet" link on the confirmation email or in the app if there is one (Trainline shows it in the app, others don't all show it), confirm when asked and it'll add it.

 

[rs101]

Off topic, but what are the advantages of using an Apple/Google wallet? I travel from Banbury to Birmingham Snow Hill twice a week, and just open the ticket from the Chiltern website. I do get the message saying "add to Apple Wallet", but never do it.

They're also available offline, so if you have data issues, the ticket will still work.

 

[Haywain]

They're also available offline, so if you have data issues, the ticket will still work.

And they are shown as rail tickets rather than random pdf files or emails that have to be searched for.