Addiscombe Branch

[R848]

Is it known if there any unbuilt plans to extend the Addiscombe line to either East Croydon / South Croydon or to Selsdon / Sanderstead before it was finally closed?

 

[John Webb]

According to Alan Jackson's book "London's Local Railways" (1999, Capital Transport) there were proposals in 1862 for a line from this branch to go round the west side of Croydon and head south to Caterham. The rival LBSCR stifled this proposal, so it was never built.

 

[edwin_m]

Is it known if there any unbuilt plans to extend the Addiscombe line to either East Croydon / South Croydon or to Selsdon / Sanderstead before it was finally closed?

I can't imagine there would have been any reason to extend it towards Selsdon, as it was a branch of a line that went there already.

 

[etr221]

I can't imagine there would have been any reason to extend it towards Selsdon, as it was a branch of a line that went there already.

The line to Selsdon was built as a branch off the line to Addiscoombe, as was the Hayes line: the Addiscombe line came first.

So - in effect the answer to the OP

Is it known if there any unbuilt plans to extend the Addiscombe line to either East Croydon / South Croydon or to Selsdon / Sanderstead before it was finally closed?

is, yes, there was a plan to build a line to Selsdon/Sanderstead, and it came fruition - but that line was closed before the Addiscombe line.

That apart, I'm not aware of any plan to extend from Addiscombe Station in recent years - although IIRC an early public plan for what became Tramlink did have it coming through the Addiscombe Station (having taken over the track bed from Elmers End), then via side roads to Central Croydon.

And going back to Victorian times, given the feud over the Caterham Railway, a proposal for a link between it and the Mid Kent would not surprise me.

 

[30907]

I can't imagine there would have been any reason to extend it towards Selsdon, as it was a branch of a line that went there already.

The Selsdon line wasnt opened till 1885, just after the present Oxted line (both were joint LBSC/SE). There had been previous proposals in the 60s for a line from the Mid-Kent to Brighton, but they would have started at Beckenham and run further East (Hajducki, Railways of Beckenham, Ardgour Press/Noodle Books 2011, p.39f).
They were opposed by the LBSC, and in turn the SE objected to the 60s Surrey and Sussex Junction proposal (predecessor of the Oxted line), so South of Woodside would have been a no-go until the two companies came to terms.

As to Addiscombe, as well as the Caterham propsal John Webb mentio s, according to Hajducki (p.35f) there were early proposals for a terminus at Fairfield and then at Croydon Town Hall - the Addiscombe terminus was the nearest the Mid Kent would be allowed by the LBSC, and the branch was aimed at residential traffic (aka commuters).

Apologies for slight overlap with etr221!

 

[R848]

As to Addiscombe, as well as the Caterham propsal John Webb mentio s, according to Hajducki (p.35f) there were early proposals for a terminus at Fairfield and then at Croydon Town Hall - the Addiscombe terminus was the nearest the Mid Kent would be allowed by the LBSC, and the branch was aimed at residential traffic (aka commuters).

Thanks.

While neither the Fairfield or Croydon Town Hall / Croydon Central proposals were allowed by the LBSC, it is known how near either proposal from Addiscombe would have traveled by East Croydon?

 

[edwin_m]

As to Addiscombe, as well as the Caterham propsal John Webb mentio s, according to Hajducki (p.35f) there were early proposals for a terminus at Fairfield and then at Croydon Town Hall - the Addiscombe terminus was the nearest the Mid Kent would be allowed by the LBSC, and the branch was aimed at residential traffic (aka commuters).

While neither the Fairfield or Croydon Town Hall / Croydon Central proposals were allowed by the LBSC, it is known how near either proposal from Addiscombe would have traveled by East Croydon?

Was blocking the competition why LBSC built a branch to Central Croydon? It seems rather pointless otherwise.

 

[30907]

Was blocking the competition why LBSC built a branch to Central Croydon? It seems rather pointless otherwise.

Wikipedia claims it was local pressure to serve the town centre better, though I suspect blocking may have played a part - it did indeed prove a white elephant.

While neither the Fairfield or Croydon Town Hall proposals were allowed by the LBSC, it is known how near either proposal from Addiscombe would have traveled by East Croydon?

I'm not sure whether plans were deposited, but it would have made sense for the line to have crossed the Brighton at about right angles a little north of Barclay Road, which would have been the nearest point. It wouldn't have been on a north-south alignment anywhere close to East Croydon.

PS I shouldn't technically have talked about the LBSCR "allowing" things, but opposing a Bill in Parliament, or threatening to, would have influenced the MKR/SER to back down.

 

[R848]

I'm not sure whether plans were deposited, but it would have made sense for the line to have crossed the Brighton at about right angles a little north of Barclay Road, which would have been the nearest point. It wouldn't have been on a north-south alignment anywhere close to East Croydon.

I see. So had the proposals somehow been approved, given the alignment of the intended route would it have allowed a potential extension to Waddon if deemed necessary?

 

[30907]

I see. So had the proposals somehow been approved, given the alignment of the intended route would it have allowed a potential extension to Waddon if deemed necessary?

I suppose so, though the gradient might have been a challenge. However, I can't see any reason why the MKR/SER would have wanted a connection with the LBSC Epsom branch, and even less reason for the LBSC to cooperate.

I'm intrigued by the whole discussion - are you perchance creating a location for a model railway?

 

[Busaholic]

Wikipedia claims it was local pressure to serve the town centre better, though I suspect blocking may have played a part - it did indeed prove a white elephant.



I'm not sure whether plans were deposited, but it would have made sense for the line to have crossed the Brighton at about right angles a little north of Barclay Road, which would have been the nearest point. It wouldn't have been on a north-south alignment anywhere close to East Croydon.

PS I shouldn't technically have talked about the LBSCR "allowing" things, but opposing a Bill in Parliament, or threatening to, would have influenced the MKR/SER to back down.

Off topic, but as it's in on a nostalgia thread.... I'd never been to Croydon as a kid (early 1950s) but the 119 bus from the end of my grandparents' road in Bromley was destined for Croydon, Barclay Road which, I believe, was not used as a terminal point by any other route.

 

[R848]

I suppose so, though the gradient might have been a challenge. However, I can't see any reason why the MKR/SER would have wanted a connection with the LBSC Epsom branch, and even less reason for the LBSC to cooperate.

I'm intrigued by the whole discussion - are you perchance creating a location for a model railway?

No, just interested in what was considered for the Addiscombe branch in terms of proposals which could have potentially stemmed the decline and eventual closure of the branch.