Advance ticket: cancelled train

[TheManOnThe172]

If one has an Advance ticket for a train that is cancelled, does one have the right to jump on a previous train?

T&Cs say "If the train you purchased a ticket for is cancelled or is delayed and you still decide to travel, special arrangements will be made to accommodate you on another train".

But there seems to be no default expectation of what those special arrangements may be or how you can find out what they are in a hurry.

If a passenger arrives at the station early enough to have the option of catching an earlier train, it may be by quite a narrow margin. The rules as written seem to suggest that the passenger couldn't just jump on that earlier train but would have to watch it leave if they hadn't by then been able to find a member of staff (or get through on the phone from an Info point) to check whether this was allowable.

Is that really right?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, generally TOC policy prefers to accommodate on the next train, delay people and incur Delay Repay than to take pragmatic solutions. Though this depends on TOC - VTWC at Euston normally advise the train before or after.

 

[unlevel42]

No.

Last year.
Cross country guard flatly refused entry for an earlier journey from Brockenhurst to Sheffield despite knowing an outage at Bournemouth was delaying trains by at least 50 minutes (and subsequently cancelled).
His train was already running 40 minutes late.
The SWT platform staff was appalled by his attitude and said so to him. Their local knowledge knew the problem was severe.

Full Delay repay cost his company over a hundred pounds.

 

[wimbledonpete]

As with so much it seems to be down to individuals - was at Doncaster once with severe delays - my train was still way up the track and I had a connection at St Pancras so I asked the guard of the first train that arrived and he was fine with me jumping on.

 

[yorkie]

If one has an Advance ticket for a train that is cancelled, does one have the right to jump on a previous train?

Potentially, but as you've not given us details of this scenario we cannot really answer this conclusively.

For example, if there was a train every 30 minutes and the previous train was 20 minutes late and your train was cancelled, and the next one was on time, it may be that the previous train is very busy and you'd not get a seat on it. So the train company may want to insist you take the later train, and for you to be entitled to 50% of your money back.

On the other hand, if there was a train every hour, and the previous train was 60 minutes late, and you were faced with a one hour delay if you waited for the next train, then the train company really should be allowing you to depart at the contracted time. The problem is that it may not be a comfortable journey for you if the train is heavily loaded.

Also if you are making a journey that requires more than one train, your ability to make further changes down the line, should also have an impact. It would be absurd if a company refused to let you on an earlier train if that resulted in you missing an important connection.

If you provide full details of your intended journey we may be able to advise.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

In this case all was simple - my daughter was booked on Bristol TM to Reading at 1430 on Sat 26 - the1430 was cancelled so she caught the 1400. But she could do that only because I had spotted the cancellation an hour ahead, and called GWR Customer Service for her and got the OK: there was apparently nobody at the gateline to ask and hunting around would have missed her the 1400 and left her waiting for 1500.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Train Company generic instructions, staff ability to assess situations, service frequency and the level of disruption all vary, so I don't think there is a 'one size fits all' answer. Bear in mind that services can be re-instated and/or started short if means allow.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Depends on the TOC and the times of the services.

 

[TheManOnThe172]

I accept that one can imagine specific scenarios where a TOC might want to block passengers from catching an earlier service than booked (or from catching a particular succeeding service), but surely the onus needs to be on the TOC to give instruction to passengers when this is the case.

When the TOC is silent (and with no staff readily available to ask). then the passenger needs a default rule to rely upon.

If (audible) announcements about alternative services are made, passengers should be expected to comply. If there are staff at the gateline, passengers should be expected to ask about which train they may catch.

But in the absence of staff or announcements, passengers should be able to take a reasonable alternative service (before or after the cancelled train) safe in the knowledge that they won't get hammered for some horrendous penalty fare or the requirement to repurchase a more expensive ticket.

 

[221129]

I accept that one can imagine specific scenarios where a TOC might want to block passengers from catching an earlier service than booked (or from catching a particular succeeding service), but surely the onus needs to be on the TOC to give instruction to passengers when this is the case.

When the TOC is silent (and with no staff readily available to ask). then the passenger needs a default rule to rely upon.

If (audible) announcements about alternative services are made, passengers should be expected to comply. If there are staff at the gateline, passengers should be expected to ask about which train they may catch.

But in the absence of staff or announcements, passengers should be able to take a reasonable alternative service (before or after the cancelled train) safe in the knowledge that they won't get hammered for some horrendous penalty fare or the requirement to repurchase a more expensive ticket.

If no station staff then why not have a word with the guard before you board?

 

[Starmill]

I will add to say that in my experience (and not as a comment on policy) guards and booking office staff do prefer passengers from cancelled trains to receive delay repay than to get their passengers to their destinations as quickly as possible.

On one memorable occasion, my booked London KX to Grantham (I was travelling to Nottingham using an Advance ticekt) service was cancelled. I asked for advice at the Travel Centre and was told that I was absolutely not permitted to join any train to Nottingham other than the one an hour later that stopped at Grantham, despite there being two earlier trains from London KX that called at Grantham (one did so normally, there would have been no hour-long gap, and there was another making an additional call) because the ticket clerk put Kings Cross to Nottingham into his jounrney planner and the train an hour later is the one it reccomended. I suggested I should instead take the first available East Coast train to Grantham and just wait there, but was told that if I did that, and didn't wait an hour at Kings Cross, I would be charged for a new ticket. So I followed his advice and waited, missed the next connection for Nottingham and was something like 3 and a half hours late - I would have been under 2 hours late if I had ignored his advice!

 

[Bletchleyite]

This really should be dealt with by a standard rule, that if a booked train is cancelled or is delayed such that a connection will not be reached (definition: the train will not arrive at the connecting station by the defined connection time for that station), the ticket becomes equivalent to an Anytime Day Single without break of journey being allowed, at least within the TOC restriction on the ticket.

 

[Coolzac]

This really should be dealt with by a standard rule, that if a booked train is cancelled or is delayed such that a connection will not be reached (definition: the train will not arrive at the connecting station by the defined connection time for that station), the ticket becomes equivalent to an Anytime Day Single without break of journey being allowed, at least within the TOC restriction on the ticket.

I think that is a very sensible rule. If the train you are promised can't be delivered, thereby creating you a lot of inconvenience, why on earth shouldn't the rail network do all they can to limit the inconvenience?

 

[James Wake]

On Saturday I had a problem with the 0729 Reading to Bath which I was using as part of a journey to Warminster. It was cancelled, and despite the fact my inbound train was ETA at Reading at 0659 (the 0531 from Gatwick booked in at 0701 but arrived at 0659), they wouldn't hold the 0700 service to Bristol for even 60 seconds. I got to the platform as the rear power car passed me.

I got permission to travel via Basingstoke and Salisbury, had no problems with any guards and got to Warminster at 0923 instead of 0911 for the start of my Imberbus duty. No delay repay for them and a satisfied customer. Although I was sad about missing a good chunk of HST mileage.

 

[westv]

If my train was cancelled I would just jump on the most convenient train for ME not the TOC.

 

[221129]

If my train was cancelled I would just jump on the most convenient train for ME not the TOC.

Sure but if you are foul of the rules then feel free to no whinge when you get correctly charged for your journey.

 

[robbeech]

Last week whilst at King's Cross i witnessed a young lady with a baby and a fair bit of luggage talking to Station staff about her train that had been cancelled. She wanted to get to Harrogate, and had an advanced single. (For reference she wasn't booked on the Direct VTEC service that goes there she was booked with a connection at Leeds). She was told that she could have got the one before which had already left, all be it late (she would have never made it anyway) or she could get the one after which would be very full and either way she wouldn't have a seat reservation. She politely asked if she could get the Edinburgh train to York and was told this was absolutely not possible. This to me seemed ridiculous. She's a young lady, possibly even still a teenager, with 2 suitcases, a ruck sack, and a baby strapped to the front of her. Her train is cancelled, and London to Harrogate is permitted via Leeds or York, she's getting a Northern Connecting service one way or another, why go out of their way to make her life harder than it already is?

My advice to her afterwards was to go to platform (x - whatever the Edinburgh train was running from) and explain to the guard and see what they say as they might let you travel. She went down the platform and didn't come back so hopefully she found a sensible member of staff there that just let her on.

 

[yorkie]

Agreed; I am sure they would have.

I'd have had words with the individual who gave out the inappropriate advice; sadly there is a minority of undesirable characters who create all sorts of problems for passengers and, potentially, their employers. The train companies should do far more to identify and monitor such individuals and ensure that appropriate training and performance management takes place.

 

[yorkie]

Sure but if you are foul of the rules then feel free to no whinge when you get correctly charged for your journey.

If the following is still within the internal KnowledgeBase, then the correct charge is zero:

Where a Train Company is apparently at fault - DO NOT CHARGE EXCESS FARE. Issue a ‘Free’ Excess ticket to cover the journey.

 

[najaB]

She politely asked if she could get the Edinburgh train to York and was told this was absolutely not possible.

Did you happen to hear why it was apparently not possible?

 

[robbeech]

They didn't give a reason, just said no and that if she wanted to go on that train she'd have to buy a new ticket.

 

[dvboy]

At Euston, if a Virgin train is cancelled the departure board will advise the appropriate alternative for each calling point (or say "ask staff" if there is no direct train). Last time I saw it, it advised an earlier train for stations to Manchester, until that earlier train had departed, when it changed to advising the next train. I imagine this is automated somehow, and why would you not try to split the load of a cancelled train over the services both before and after it?

 

[MotCO]

I was once booked on a Grand Central from Sunderland to Kings Cross at around midday, but noticed that the train to form the incoming service had been cancelled due to technical problems. I tweeted Grand Central and they agreed I could travel on the earlier train (there only being three direct services that day).

 

[najaB]

They didn't give a reason, just said no and that if she wanted to go on that train she'd have to buy a new ticket.

Shame. It would've been interesting to see the logic that lead to that decision.

 

[gray1404]

Anther option would be to tweet the TOC who cancelled the service and see what they tell you to do. They may tell you to approach station staff (and even then it is a question of who? booking office/platform staff etc), state the specific train you should get or something more general, which may work to the passengers advantage. The good thing about that is you have something in electronic format to produce in the event of any discussions.