Advice on DBS Check

[witlesss]

Hi everyone!

Saw a helpful thread on this from a few months back and now find myself in a similar situation so thought I would post and see if anyone would be able to help.

In 2022 I came home from university and brought a train ticket with my railcard, not realising it was expired (only by a few weeks) as I had not used it during my time away. When asked to show my railcard by a member of staff after my ticket was not working I discovered it was expired, and he said I could either pay a fine there or get sent a letter which would allow me to appeal. I chose to recieve a letter as he said I would have a chance of appealing the fine given it was an accident. I gave the correct address, but he wrote it down wrong and the letter was delivered to my neighbour who had just moved in and did not know my last name, so did not think to pass it on to us. I thought that was everything after not receiving a letter, but months later received another letter in the post saying I was due to make a court appearance and pay a fine, and could end up with a criminal record.

We got in contact with the court, and settled the matter with an out of court payment, as they acknowledged it was not my fault the original payment hadn't been made due to their mistake sending it to the wrong address. I paid the fine and have not heard anything of the matter since.

However, I am now in the process of starting a new job and need to complete a DBS check, and am wondering if this is something I have to disclose. I have seen some say on here things will not come up if settled out of court, however I am concerned if I do not mention it and it comes up I am at risk of getting into trouble with the employer, but likewise if I do mention it and it doesn't come up am I putting my job at risk for no reason?

The question where I think I may have to mention it reads:
"Have you ever been issued with a penalty notice for disorder or other fixed penalty notice (other than for parking)? If yes, please provide details including incident or offence, sentence or punishment, sentencing authority and dates."

Also worth noting that I am unsure whether this is a standard or enhanced DBS check, as the role is not within the police but does contain some work with legal data. Nothing has been said to me suggesting it is enhanced but it is a possibility due to the nature of the job.

Happy to provide more info or answer any questions.

 

[cool110]

You settled out of court, so you haven't been convicted of an offence. It's not a FPN as those only exist for other offences and accepting them is equivalent to a guilty plea.

 

[ikcdab]

But the question is "have you ever been issued with a fixed penalty notice"?
Surely the answer to that is "yes". That is was settled out of court is irrelevant.
To be honest this is a very minor infraction - an out of date railcard - that can hardly impact a career. It must be better to mention it than risk it coming up in a search.

 

[Haywain]

But the question is "have you ever been issued with a fixed penalty notice"?

And the answer is no.

 

[cool110]

But the question is "have you ever been issued with a fixed penalty notice"?
Surely the answer to that is "yes".

No it isn't, a Fixed Penalty Notice is a specific legal procedure that can only be used by the police, councils, and other authorities. The railway does not have the power to issue them

 

[Pushpit]

The question where I think I may have to mention it reads:
"Have you ever been issued with a penalty notice for disorder or other fixed penalty notice (other than for parking)? If yes, please provide details including incident or offence, sentence or punishment, sentencing authority and dates."

Also worth noting that I am unsure whether this is a standard or enhanced DBS check, as the role is not within the police but does contain some work with legal data. Nothing has been said to me suggesting it is enhanced but it is a possibility due to the nature of the job.

You will remember these from the Covid-19 restrictions. Two of the last 3 prime ministers have received them, the current one having 2 such FPNs on his record. Mostly they are traffic or parking related. Either way, you privately settled the dispute over the railcard so you answer "no" to that question, you don't have a spent or unspent conviction to anticipate what I think is the next question. The only thing I note is that you state that you "paid the fine" - did you pay via HMCTS or did you pay the rail company?

 

[witlesss]

No it isn't, a Fixed Penalty Notice is a specific legal procedure that can only be used by the police, councils, and other authorities. The railway does not have the power to issue them

Ok thank you, so it isn’t relevant to this question and therefore not worth mentioning? Do you think it would come up for any other questions or at all? thanks

You will remember these from the Covid-19 restrictions. Two of the last 3 prime ministers have received them, the current one having 2 such FPNs on his record. Mostly they are traffic or parking related. Either way, you privately settled the dispute over the railcard so you answer "no" to that question, you don't have a spent or unspent conviction to anticipate what I think is the next question. The only thing I note is that you state that you "paid the fine" - did you pay via HMCTS or did you pay the rail company?

Thank you for this, so it doesn’t come under that category and is not worth mentioning. I will check now where I paid the fine, is it likely to make a difference on whether or not it comes up in checks?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ok thank you, so it isn’t relevant to this question and therefore not worth mentioning? Do you think it would come up for any other questions or at all? thanks

If it is DV you can download the entire questionnaire, it's online somewhere. However they can and will ask anything, and if they do you must answer honestly because if they find you haven't it's likely your application will fail. They aren't out to trap you with obfuscated questions in that sense, if they wanted to know if you'd ever been caught without a ticket on public transport they'd ask that specifically.

Supposedly the interviewers tend to be quite friendly, all they want is to know everything about you honestly and truthfully so they can make a decision on your trustworthiness with state secrets, they aren't out to catch you out for anything other than dishonesty or blackmail potential.

 

[witlesss]

You will remember these from the Covid-19 restrictions. Two of the last 3 prime ministers have received them, the current one having 2 such FPNs on his record. Mostly they are traffic or parking related. Either way, you privately settled the dispute over the railcard so you answer "no" to that question, you don't have a spent or unspent conviction to anticipate what I think is the next question. The only thing I note is that you state that you "paid the fine" - did you pay via HMCTS or did you pay the rail company?

I have just checked, it was paid directly to the rail company, will attach the email and website I received when directed to payment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That is an out of court settlement and would not come up on any form of DBS check. However if specifically asked about such things on a DV interview you must be honest, particularly as the second letter notes that a Court was aware of the case so it'll be noted *somewhere*.

 

[witlesss]

If it is DV you can download the entire questionnaire, it's online somewhere. However they can and will ask anything, and if they do you must answer honestly because if they find you haven't it's likely your application will fail. They aren't out to trap you with obfuscated questions in that sense, if they wanted to know if you'd ever been caught without a ticket on public transport they'd ask that specifically.

Supposedly the interviewers tend to be quite friendly, all they want is to know everything about you honestly and truthfully so they can make a decision on your trustworthiness with state secrets, they aren't out to catch you out for anything other than dishonesty or blackmail potential.

Would it be helpful if I attached the whole questionnaire to see if it needs to be mentioned anywhere? Happy to do so.

I have already been interviewed for the job and signed the contract, these are checks that come afterwards I assume to check for suitability due to potential sensitive data.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would it be helpful if I attached the whole questionnaire to see if it needs to be mentioned anywhere? Happy to do so.

It would be well out of the scope of this Forum to give advice on completing DV paperwork. As I said the only correct answer with this is to honestly answer the question asked.

 

[AlterEgo]

Would it be helpful if I attached the whole questionnaire to see if it needs to be mentioned anywhere? Happy to do so.

I have already been interviewed for the job and signed the contract, these are checks that come afterwards I assume to check for suitability due to potential sensitive data.

Unless you are handling Secret or Top Secret government files you will not be anywhere near Developed Vetting. In any case, don't sweat anything, just be honest.

 

[witlesss]

It would be well out of the scope of this Forum to give advice on completing DV paperwork. As I said the only correct answer with this is to honestly answer the question asked.

Unless you are handling Secret or Top Secret government files you will not be anywhere near Developed Vetting. In any case, don't sweat anything, just be honest.

I know don’t worry! Just want to be honest and not leave any information out, but obviously worried not mentioning this is not being honest. But if it isn’t going to come up then i won’t mention it.

 

[Pushpit]

I have just checked, it was paid directly to the rail company, will attach the email and website I received when directed to payment.

That's definitely not a conviction and would not come up in DBS or EDBS. Even with the dodgy admin processes of some part of HMCTS / DBS / police forces I can't see how that could even mistakenly get put on to a DBS and EDBS. If it's either of those then you get to see it first anyway, before the employer, and if by some extraordinary reason it ended up on your DBS then you could safely take the DBS in to your HR department and it would not be a problem.

If it's legal + government related it's usually a BPSS or CTC check, not DV, and it's broadly the same principle as DBS and EDBS respectively. In short you don't need to worry. But yes, if you are asked specifically about (e.g.) getting a court summons or getting in trouble with a transport provider, but that's all very unlikely.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I have already been interviewed for the job and signed the contract, these are checks that come afterwards I assume to check for suitability due to potential sensitive data.

My suggestion would be to disclose. You've been offered the job so (unless they've suddenly decided that they don't want you) they will not be looking for reasons to turn you down. That being the case, it's better to be overly open rather than overly private as
- if they really don't care about an out of court settlement, they'll ignore that you've told them
- if they want to know about your fundamental honesty, disclosing something which reflects (a little) badly on you shows that you are committed to being honest with your employer, even if it's embarrassing to you
- if it is something they need to know about and you don't tell them, they will have found out from elsewhere but be concerned that you didn't admit it.

 

[AlterEgo]

There is absolutely no need to declare you privately settling a matter to your employer whatsoever. Unless this is regarding a very, very sensitive role in the intelligence services or dealing with national infrastructure and you need SC/DV don't tell them. It's not their business.

 

[87 027]

This is a helpful summary of the different levels of clearance, situations where they are required and what sorts of enquiries are carried out

National security vetting: clearance levels

www.gov.uk

National Security Vetting and DBS checks are entirely separate things!

 

[witlesss]

Thank you everyone for your help.

This is a helpful summary of the different levels of clearance, situations where they are required and what sorts of enquiries are carried out

National security vetting: clearance levels

www.gov.uk

National Security Vetting and DBS checks are entirely separate things!

That's definitely not a conviction and would not come up in DBS or EDBS. Even with the dodgy admin processes of some part of HMCTS / DBS / police forces I can't see how that could even mistakenly get put on to a DBS and EDBS. If it's either of those then you get to see it first anyway, before the employer, and if by some extraordinary reason it ended up on your DBS then you could safely take the DBS in to your HR department and it would not be a problem.

If it's legal + government related it's usually a BPSS or CTC check, not DV, and it's broadly the same principle as DBS and EDBS respectively. In short you don't need to worry. But yes, if you are asked specifically about (e.g.) getting a court summons or getting in trouble with a transport provider, but that's all very unlikely.

Just checked and it’s an NPVV3 check as well as a security clearance, alongside a DBS check. Would this increase likelihood for it to come up as it’s a more sensitive check? If so I’ll mention it to HR, just in case.

 

[Pushpit]

Just checked and it’s an NPVV3 check as well as a security clearance, alongside a DBS check. Would this increase likelihood for it to come up as it’s a more sensitive check? If so I’ll mention it to HR, just in case.

OK, so the underlying intent on NPVV is to find out if you could be blackmailed by criminals, or open to corruption due to financial issues. Or you have friends / relatives who are criminals, hence this check can cover family members too. I think you would be right to mention that you settled a penalty to a rail company for an out of date railcard. I doubt it would be a problem, but it shows that you are engaging fully in the process. If they want to know more then you can go into the circumstances behind it, such as the narrow avoidance of a court hearing, if they choose to explore this further.

 

[87 027]

Must confess I've never heard of NPPV3 but it seems to be a check which is specific to civilians working for police forces and is separate from both the DBS process and National Security Vetting (which is mainly applicable to the civil service), although is broadly equivalent to SC.

From a quick internet search, for example

How NPPV Vetting Differs from DBS

If you’ve been looking at making a move into working with the Police, you’ve probably seen the term NPPV. NPPV stands for Non-Police Personnel Vetting and applies to people who are working with the Police but who aren’t police officers.

clearcheck.co.uk

NPPV is all about building an overall picture of your character and weeding out any people who might be susceptible to being blackmailed or tempted to pass on information to criminals for financial gain.

These checks recognise that very few people are monks or saints but I would echo the advice above from other posters to be open in response to anything you are asked about. Many years ago I was asked to act as a character referee for a friend applying for DV clearance, which involved a very in-depth interview with "a man from the Ministry". I was honest in my answers and my friend did get his clearance.

Edited to add: I also have DBS Enhanced with Barring clearance in my capacity as a charity trustee; it has been through several renewals and in my experience you get a copy of whatever information is provided

 

[Ediswan]

Must confess I've never heard of NPPV3 but it seems to be a check which is specific to civilians working for police forces and is separate from both the DBS process and National Security Vetting (which is mainly applicable to the civil service), although is broadly equivalent to SC.

In this context, police officers are also civilians. The formal term used here is 'non-police personnel'.

 

[Lockwood]

NPPV is non police personnel - I work for a company that provides software services for emergency services as my day job and that requires us to hold NPPV3+SC, but not directly for a police force.

The SC questionnaire is more detailed than the NPPV one, but the NPPV element needs a declaration done more frequently.

Our workplace guidance for NPPV is to declare any interaction with the police, even as a witness.