Air conditioning not working on various units

[matacaster]

First hot day of year. Taken two northern trains CL 185 & 158 neither has aircon working. Having had all winter to fix any issues it beggars belief that it fails as usual. Pathetic!

 

[cjmillsnun]

Unfortunately aircon can go faulty at any time.

Also depending on how many stops the train has to make and how long the doors are open at a station, then any cooling that may have happened is wiped out and may take up to an hour to get to cool again. This is why units with end doors tend to be cooler than units with 1/3 and 2/3 doors as they have a vestibule door that shields the main saloon from the exit doors.

158s were designed to work with R12 freon that has since been banned because it is a CFC and damages the ozone layer. It doesn't run as well with the R134a refrigerant that is used as a replacement.

 

[PHILIPE]

First hot day of year. Taken two northern trains CL 185 & 158 neither has aircon working. Having had all winter to fix any issues it beggars belief that it fails as usual. Pathetic!

All Winter ? Many years actually especially with 158s

 

[AM9]

Hardly the end of the world. A/C frequently fails, on trains, boats and cars. At least it is a failure that doesn't prevent passengers making important journeys.

 

[bramling]

Hardly the end of the world. A/C frequently fails, on trains, boats and cars. At least it is a failure that doesn't prevent passengers making important journeys.

Whilst not the "end of the world", it's pretty unpleasant - can be bordering on unbearable - if there's no opening windows.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very unusual for Siemens aircon not to work - it's usually pretty reliable on the 350s and 444/450s down South.

Class 158 aircon is just pointless, it hasn't worked properly since the CFC ban. It needs binning and replacing.

Neil

 

[northernchris]

I've done Manchester-Leeds on a rammed 185 on a hot day with no working air con, so can sympathise with how unpleasant it can get. I was on a 333 yesterday which had perfect air con (was like a fridge!) Is the temperature set remotely or can traincrew amend this?

 

[Mojo]

First hot day of year. Taken two northern trains CL 185 & 158 neither has aircon working. Having had all winter to fix any issues it beggars belief that it fails as usual. Pathetic!

It isn't the first hot day of the year. We had similar temperatures on the 19th-20th April and it also wasn't that much colder yesterday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've done Manchester-Leeds on a rammed 185 on a hot day with no working air con, so can sympathise with how unpleasant it can get. I was on a 333 yesterday which had perfect air con (was like a fridge!) Is the temperature set remotely or can traincrew amend this?

Depends on the unit. Traincrew can certainly adjust it on Pendolinos.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I've done Manchester-Leeds on a rammed 185 on a hot day with no working air con, so can sympathise with how unpleasant it can get. I was on a 333 yesterday which had perfect air con (was like a fridge!) Is the temperature set remotely or can traincrew amend this?

Generally speaking train air-con systems are designed to avoid "interference" by train-crew especially on more modern stock. While many guards will be aware of certain things they can do most of the time it's up to depot maintenance staff to ensure that the air-con is set up correctly. The question at this time of year is therefore whether any testing has taken place on depot to ensure everything is A1 and any faults arising have been fully rectified. In theory it should not be an issue as fully working air-con is just as important during the winter to remove rain-induced dampness from the saloon environment. However what happens in practice may be another matter...

As for earlier comments about Siemens built units when they were first delivered the air-con was invariably set to too low a temperature. Anyone who has travelled on German loco-hauled air-conditioned stock will know that the German preference is for very fridge-like conditions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for earlier comments about Siemens built units when they were first delivered the air-con was invariably set to too low a temperature.

That lower temperature seems to have been kept on the WCML units (SWR's are noticeably warmer), and it's lovely on a day like today.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

166’s in GWR territory are just as unreliable as the 158’s but as least have more openable hopper windows.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for earlier comments about Siemens built units when they were first delivered the air-con was invariably set to too low a temperature. Anyone who has travelled on German loco-hauled air-conditioned stock will know that the German preference is for very fridge-like conditions.

Which is odd, given that on non-aircon stock the rule is very much "thou shalt not open the window".

166’s in GWR territory are just as unreliable as the 158’s but as least have more openable hopper windows.

166s are worse (or were prior to the recent mod), it flat doesn't/didn't work.

 

[ATW158Xpress]

166’s need to replace there air con with something they doing with the 165 fleet by fitting air cooler units at the moment

 

[Bantamzen]

First hot day of year. Taken two northern trains CL 185 & 158 neither has aircon working. Having had all winter to fix any issues it beggars belief that it fails as usual. Pathetic!

Just to be correct, the 185s are owned by TransPennine Express and a couple are leased on a daily basis to Northern, so Northern can hardly be blamed for the A/C not working. But as others have said, the 158s often have problems although usually the hopper windows are opened in these cases.

 

[dgl]

Another thing to remember is that the 158/9's used by SWR and previously SWT have different AC systems (Liebherr) retrofitted so generally work, primarily as they are designed to use non-CFC (probably R134a) from the outset, if the other users were prepared to pay to have a similar system retrofitted then the AC would work much better.

 

[superkev]

Sadly I suspect Northerns depots don't see air conditioning faults as a priority.
K

 

[Jonfun]

The problem is when you allow staff to fiddle with the air con temperature, the passengers will get wise to it and a small minority expect the temperature to be set to their own personal preference, particularly a problem when you have a unit with working air con and someone wants it warmer - you can put a jumper on, at the end of the day, but theres a limit to the number of clothes you can take off if its too warm! I'd rather it be set at a consistent temperature off depot. I remember when they introduced the 185s, the air con was fantastic, it sort of lost its way at some point though.

 

[Phlip]

All Nothern 158 were fitted with New Liebherr A/C systems as of a couple of years ago. If properly maintained they should be fine.

 

[sportzbar]

Most train crew on the Northern 158s are given a basic overview of the aircon system when traction training. There is a simple fault finding diagram on board where the control panel is located. I have used this several times to reset a fault with the aircon and 99% of the time it works. It just sometimes needs a reboot. A lot of staff however tend to forget this reset trick or are too scared incase it goes wrong.

 

[alangla]

The other issue with 158 units seems to be crew impatience - unit parked in the sun with the engine stopped, crew get on, start it, air con starts to slowly reduce temperature, "it's not working" windows open, air con cooling the lineside. I could understand leaving the windows open for a couple of miles to let the worst of the hot air exit, but they never seem to be closed again so the air con units are constantly fighting a losing battle.

 

[superkev]

If my car was as unreliable I'd either think it wasn't being maintained properly or needed scrapping.
I always prefer my car these days with its comfy seats, lots of leg room, view out and working air con. Just the opposite of Northern trains I suppose.
K

 

[MrCub]

I shouldn't worry too much; I was on a 700 yesterday which had its heating ON. In general they tend to have the temperature too high on those anyway, forgetting people wear coats and jackets (cue can of worms about the 'right' temp setting for aircon).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If my car was as unreliable I'd either think it wasn't being maintained properly or needed scrapping.
I always prefer my car these days with its comfy seats, lots of leg room, view out and working air con. Just the opposite of Northern trains I suppose.
K

If 158 air-conditioning was as unreliable as it is made out to be on here, I'd agree...

But it isn't. Most of the time it works fine, but nobody talks about that time they got a Northern 158 with functioning air-con, because that isn't "news".

 

[Bletchleyite]

Re cars aircon is about the least reliable bit too...

 

[Goldfish62]

First hot day of year. Taken two northern trains CL 185 & 158 neither has aircon working. Having had all winter to fix any issues it beggars belief that it fails as usual. Pathetic!

Usual issue with the Class 458s down south. First hot weekend of the year and most of them have their emergency hoppers open.

 

[LiftFan]

I don't see the point of installing air con on trains over here. It often fails and I find it far better being on a 150 or 166 with a good number of air hoppers (a breeze also makes a huge difference). Not to forget, the weather is also only this hot for maybe 14 days in a year in this country.

 

[superkev]

If 158 air-conditioning was as unreliable as it is made out to be on here, I'd agree...

But it isn't. Most of the time it works fine, but nobody talks about that time they got a Northern 158 with functioning air-con, because that isn't "news".

Sorry but we will have to disagree on this one. Noticed today at Sowerby Bridge newly refreshed 754 and 755 along with 762 I think all with some open hoppers.
I'm sure 754 was the unit I rode on around 3 weeks ago with the centre car hoppers open just as today. If it's been broken for 3 weeks that's very poor.
K

 

[Goldfish62]

I don't see the point of installing air con on trains over here. It often fails and I find it far better being on a 150 or 166 with a good number of air hoppers (a breeze also makes a huge difference). Not to forget, the weather is also only this hot for maybe 14 days in a year in this country.

Aircon has a year-round function, not just chilling the air on hot days, which incidentally opening windows never manage effectively.

 

[northernchris]

Generally speaking train air-con systems are designed to avoid "interference" by train-crew especially on more modern stock. While many guards will be aware of certain things they can do most of the time it's up to depot maintenance staff to ensure that the air-con is set up correctly. The question at this time of year is therefore whether any testing has taken place on depot to ensure everything is A1 and any faults arising have been fully rectified. In theory it should not be an issue as fully working air-con is just as important during the winter to remove rain-induced dampness from the saloon environment. However what happens in practice may be another matter...

As for earlier comments about Siemens built units when they were first delivered the air-con was invariably set to too low a temperature. Anyone who has travelled on German loco-hauled air-conditioned stock will know that the German preference is for very fridge-like conditions.

Sorry but we will have to disagree on this one. Noticed today at Sowerby Bridge newly refreshed 754 and 755 along with 762 I think all with some open hoppers.
I'm sure 754 was the unit I rode on around 3 weeks ago with the centre car hoppers open just as today. If it's been broken for 3 weeks that's very poor.
K

I was on 2 Northern 158s today, and both had functioning air conditioning