Alcohol Consumption & Working on the railways

[Rescars]

Posts so far, in general, about the present day or recent past; it would appear that on the railways in distant times, different standards applied, and things were a lot more "free-wheeling" as regards drinking on the job. I recall the splendid (or not) story -- from David L. Smith's Tales of the Glasgow & South-Western Railway? -- of the public holiday something over a century ago, on which three double-headed return passenger specials were run, for Glaswegians to make a day excursion to sample the delights of Stranraer. It so happened -- fortunately, as it turned out -- that the six drivers involved, were teetotallers; they spent their time at the Stranraer end, decorously. All six firemen were fans of "the cup which cheers and inebriates", and spent the time between arrival, and departure for Glasgow, accordingly. On the return journey, the firemen were incapable of doing anything more than leaning out of the cab and throwing up; the drivers had to do the firing too. So far as I remember from the tale, none of the guilty parties lost their job because of this escapade.

Another tale from the same source recounts the time that, following a very liquid evening out, a ECS train (with a number of other railway staff illicitly aboard) ran out of steam, but whilst they stopped to blow up pressure, the engine crew fell asleep. They awoke the following morning before their travelling companions to find the fire was out, so they relit it, got up steam and got back home. Apparently all those involved never heard another word about it! A different world!

 

[Tio Terry]

Back in 1973, when I started working with British Rail, there was a bar on the top floor of Southern House in Croydon.

Remember it well.
It was guarded by a dragon of a woman, you had to be introduced to her by somebody who was already a member of the Officers Mess or you weren't let in- it was for EG staff only.
Meals were the same as those served in the general canteen, but you got waiter service and could order wine, spirits or bottled beer with your meal. Every month you got your mess bill.

I can remember helping to load the Inspection Special with beers and wine prior to it starting it's inspection tour. The top Engineer didn't do a lot of inspecting after lunch, that would be his Deputy's job!

 

[Trackman]

Back in 1973, when I started working with British Rail, there was a bar on the top floor of Southern House in Croydon.

There's a bar, well sort of a pub at Network Rail Westwood.
The first time I went it was a sunny evening, once I had checked into my room I had a stroll around grounds and fancied a pint.
I looked at my watch, it was about 20 minutes before the end of my shift (I'm being paid) so I sat in the 'beer garden' so to speak to wait. I noticed a sign near the door which said 'Network Rail Drugs and Alcohol policy is in force here'. It didn't bother a couple of my colleagues who were with me (on the same shift), they were already on their second pint!
I've seen some really boozy nights at Westwood, and it's usually managers or above.

 

[Elecman]

There's a bar, well sort of a pub at Network Rail Westwood.
The first time I went it was a sunny evening, once I had checked into my room I had a stroll around grounds and fancied a pint.
I looked at my watch, it was about 20 minutes before the end of my shift (I'm being paid) so I sat in the 'beer garden' so to speak to wait. I noticed a sign near the door which said 'Network Rail Drugs and Alcohol policy is in force here'. It didn't bother a couple of my colleagues who were with me (on the same shift), they were already on their second pint!
I've seen some really boozy nights at Westwood, and it's usually managers or above.

Westwood closes in December

 

[Trainfan2019]

Fascinating reading this thread and what an eye-opener of what happened years gone by, thanks for all the comments.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

1998 I was a steward for National Express. In between my run in from South Shields and the overnight run to Edinburgh the coach was parked next to Vauxhall Bridge. The driver that brought the coach in was due to stay in digs overnight so after parking up we both headed to the adjacent Brunswick Social club opposite Vaipuxhall station For a couple of jars. When we walked in i noticed it was full of South West Trains staff. Stood at the bar we are ordering drinks when the phone rings and the chap behind the bar answers it. He then shouts for someone to come over, an old chap who was playing pool. He picks up the phone, mumbles a few words and ends the call. Passing his pint to the bar staff in his deep cockney accent he says “pop that in the fridge for me for when i get back, I got to do a shunt at Clapham Junction!”

Fast forward to a few weeks ago and I passed the Brunswick club, which is still there and looking very smart from the outside its no longer a “workingman’s” club as such but is still very much a members club and the waste land that was the coach and lorry park has been replaced with some high rise buildings. I doubt you will find any “spare” crews in the Brunswick today….

 

[TheSeeker]

When I worked at the Ministry of Agriculture at Tolworth there was a bar and, amazingly a badminton court. Both saw regular use at lunch times. I seem to remember the bar maid was one of the cleaners who was paid for an hours work through a whip round each week.

 

[AVK17]

There's a bar, well sort of a pub at Network Rail Westwood.
The first time I went it was a sunny evening, once I had checked into my room I had a stroll around grounds and fancied a pint.
I looked at my watch, it was about 20 minutes before the end of my shift (I'm being paid) so I sat in the 'beer garden' so to speak to wait. I noticed a sign near the door which said 'Network Rail Drugs and Alcohol policy is in force here'. It didn't bother a couple of my colleagues who were with me (on the same shift), they were already on their second pint!
I've seen some really boozy nights at Westwood, and it's usually managers or above.

There was of course the legendary night at Westwood in 2013 when there was a big conference for a particular grade (p-way Section Managers sticks in my head) which got riotously out of hand when they went into battle against a class of Graduates and the police were called to calm it down. Because of this there was unannounced D&A screening the next morning and when word got round people were seen fleeing the site over the lawn at the back. Quite a few who stayed lost their jobs that day.

I was staying at Westwood for a night just one week for after these shenanigans and had the upstairs lounge next to the bar entirely to myself because no one was drinking. As you say I’ve also had some thoroughly enjoyable nights there. It’s a real shame it’s closing but I suppose it was inevitable really.

 

[Dave W]

When I worked at the Ministry of Agriculture at Tolworth there was a bar and, amazingly a badminton court. Both saw regular use at lunch times. I seem to remember the bar maid was one of the cleaners who was paid for an hours work through a whip round each week.

Drifting slightly, but many Civil Service buildings had bars and recreational facilities. I believe several had full shooting ranges. I was one of a cadre of young upstarts who, when Somerset House finally closed to civil servants, was involved in the repatriation of their very high quality table tennis table to another nearby building (also since closed and disposed of, and I suspect the table along with it). Recent revelations about parties have largely halted on-site fun and games - probably rightly - but I've been several sheets to the wind at my desk in the past. There again, that's in an office, and not at the sharp end of several hundred tons of metal!

And as for military bases and MOD sites...

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I worked for EDS years ago there was a social club and bar onsite, and that was in a company that did have a strict policy of no drinking during working hours. It was busy after work. It was quite common, I believe, in "campus style" out of town tech offices alongside a canteen. The whole thing had a bit of a "grown up research university" feel to it which despite liking homeworking I miss a bit.

 

[TheSeeker]

many Civil Service buildings had bars and recreational facilities

Yes, MAFF had its own sports ground (bar and dance floor) where I faired very badly in the cricket and rounders on sports day. Thinking back it is all quite surreal. Coaches would bring staff from the north of Scotland, all over the country for the event.

This culture lasted a lot longer here in Belgium. My old office in Anderlecht served wine with lunch and let people smoke in their offices until 2007. The main reason why colleagues from the Netherlands always liked coming to us for meetings.

 

[Capybara]

The Isobar at the Met Office in Bracknell was legendary. Some of the drunkest people I've ever known worked at the Met Office.

 

[Dai Corner]

The Isobar at the Met Office in Bracknell was legendary. Some of the drunkest people I've ever known worked at the Met Office.

The BBC Club (licensed bar) was a feature of all their large premises. It's said that many good ideas for programmes were hatched there.

 

[Magdalia]

Drifting slightly, but many Civil Service buildings had bars and recreational facilities.

The Treasury's Whitehall HQ had the Treasury Tap. It was busy enough to have Youngs Bitter on handpump.

 

[Rescars]

Back in BR days, the management grades of British Transport Hotels were paid a bar or "cellar allowance". This did not extend to similar grades within Travellers Fare (sadly!).

 

[Dave W]

The Treasury's Whitehall HQ had the Treasury Tap. It was busy enough to have Youngs Bitter on handpump.

I should rather like to know where exactly in HQ that was; I might be willing to have a guess but I'd probably be wrong and all was probably swept away with the refurb at any rate. One can still get an allowance for alcohol for an event but it was very strictly policed even before recent events.

It's quite intriguing how culture seems to have changed in some areas but not others. Referring back to early posts, I vividly remember the Eltham report making reference to the driver being a heavy drinker and regularly causing disorder, to the effect he was sacked for such an offence before being reinstated on appeal. Would an offence outside work cause such a response today on the railway?

(one last CS reference I can't resist, early in my career I was having a pint - ironically - with a proper old timer Customs Officer who had started in the ports. He said - and I suspect there was a little embellishment! - it was pretty much in his job description that every afternoon he'd get in his car and tour the port looking for the Surveyor (the boss) who would invariably be in amongst containers ostensibly checking for illicit alcohol and giving it all a "thorough" test. His job was to persuade him to get in the motor and drive him home to Mrs Surveyor! Having been to several parties with ex-Customs and Excise officers, that story is absolutely not implausible!!!)

 

[D6968]

I should rather like to know where exactly in HQ that was; I might be willing to have a guess but I'd probably be wrong and all was probably swept away with the refurb at any rate. One can still get an allowance for alcohol for an event but it was very strictly policed even before recent events.

It's quite intriguing how culture seems to have changed in some areas but not others. Referring back to early posts, I vividly remember the Eltham report making reference to the driver being a heavy drinker and regularly causing disorder, to the effect he was sacked for such an offence before being reinstated on appeal. Would an offence outside work cause such a response today on the railway?

(one last CS reference I can't resist, early in my career I was having a pint - ironically - with a proper old timer Customs Officer who had started in the ports. He said - and I suspect there was a little embellishment! - it was pretty much in his job description that every afternoon he'd get in his car and tour the port looking for the Surveyor (the boss) who would invariably be in amongst containers ostensibly checking for illicit alcohol and giving it all a "thorough" test. His job was to persuade him to get in the motor and drive him home to Mrs Surveyor! Having been to several parties with ex-Customs and Excise officers, that story is absolutely not implausible!!!)

For someone who works in a small brewery, it’s rather interesting to see how many places in Cambridge still have bars for staff use, and how many we supply (and it’s not necessarily the College’s either)
Getting back on Topic, Adrian Vaughn mentions in one of his books about how he’d mind the footplate of trains that he’d had to put in the loop at Challow whilst the crew went and had a pint, when he could give them the road he used to let them know by using the whistle!

 

[AVK17]

It's quite intriguing how culture seems to have changed in some areas but not others. Referring back to early posts, I vividly remember the Eltham report making reference to the driver being a heavy drinker and regularly causing disorder, to the effect he was sacked for such an offence before being reinstated on appeal. Would an offence outside work cause such a response today on the railway?

A drink related offence absolutely would have consequences for employment these days if the railway found out about it.

I remember being told about a train driver (pre T&WA 1992) who was well known by the management to be an alcoholic and spent most of his days laid out incapable with his secondman driving. Eventually he was downgraded for some drink related misdemeanour - the position they downgraded him to? Traincrew minibus driver! So he then spent his days sitting at the bar in the station, occasionally leaving it to provide terrifying white kuckle rides up to the depot, bouncing from kerb to kerb, until eventually the police stopped him for drink driving and he became a platform sweeper.

 

[contrex]

(one last CS reference I can't resist, early in my career I was having a pint - ironically - with a proper old timer Customs Officer who had started in the ports. He said - and I suspect there was a little embellishment! - it was pretty much in his job description that every afternoon he'd get in his car and tour the port looking for the Surveyor (the boss) who would invariably be in amongst containers ostensibly checking for illicit alcohol and giving it all a "thorough" test. His job was to persuade him to get in the motor and drive him home to Mrs Surveyor! Having been to several parties with ex-Customs and Excise officers, that story is absolutely not implausible!!!)

Nearly 50 years ago I knew a girl whose Irish-born father was a customs officer at the (then) London Docks. He regularly brought home bottles of whisky. He said ''Tis a crime to pour it away!'.

 

[Falcon1200]

There was of course the legendary night at Westwood in 2013 when there was a big conference for a particular grade (p-way Section Managers sticks in my head) which got riotously out of hand

I remember hearing about that too, fortunately it was not during one of my visits to Westwood, which were much more sedate affairs.

There is no doubt that attitudes on the railway to drinking on duty have, thankfully, changed utterly since the 'good old days', to the extent that no-one is under any illusions about what will happen should they transgress.

 

[MP33]

When I was in the Civil Service whenever the Christmas Party was mentioned, someone would say I hope it is not another, name of a building. At this party someone let off a smoke bomb. The Fire Brigade arrived and rather than checking if doors were unlocked just smashed their way in with axes.

When I used to read of cases of drinking on the Railway, it always appeared to be the worst cases. There was one where a driver drove an EMU on a late evening service from Liverpool Street rather badly. At his trial a BTP Officer said that following an unscheduled stop at a station, he asked for an explanation. The answer was we are all on the fiddle.

 

[Tangent]

It's quite intriguing how culture seems to have changed in some areas but not others. Referring back to early posts, I vividly remember the Eltham report making reference to the driver being a heavy drinker and regularly causing disorder, to the effect he was sacked for such an offence before being reinstated on appeal. Would an offence outside work cause such a response today on the railway?

There was a disturbing feature that Colonel Robertson does not highlight in the report. Driver Wilsdon's second arrest for being drunk & disorderly, in 1969, took place in Ennersdale Road, which is only a couple of streets away from the Hither Green depot where he was based.

The most natural assumption is that Wilsdon must have been on duty before being arrested; but his superiors seem to have taken no pains to establish this before giving him a warning about his off-duty drinking habits. Had they investigated the occurrence more thoroughly, then Colonel Robertson would surely have mentioned the fact.

 

[R Martin]

When I was at Willesden MPD in the early 1960's There was a BRSA club just at the entrance to the MPD ( We called it the "Institute") It was always full of drivers drinking, but most only moderately, although I was only a fitter/electrician I had a few myself!

 

[wellhouse]

As a child with railway relatives, I had a cab ride on a CIE Metrovick (I think it was a 201) from Cahersiveen to Valentia. On arrival the crew made straight for the pub for a pint before the return trip. This was 1959.