All-line Rail Rover trip plan - would love your thoughts

[davsarg]

Hi Everyone,

I've bought a 7 day 1st class ALRR for the beginning of June. Wrexham General is my home station and I would love your thoughts on my current plan:

Friday 3rd June
Wrexham General >>>> Chester >>>> Crewe >>>> Glasgow Central >> (walk to)>> Glasgow Queen Street >>>> Inverness >>>> Aberdeen

Saturday 4th June
Aberdeen >>>> Penzance (hopefully XC direct!)

Sunday 5th June : Slow and leisurely day out to St. Ives

Monday 6th
Penzance >>>> Newton Abbot >>>> Bristol Parkway >>>> Newport >>>> Wrexham General (on the 'Gerald' train)

Tuesday 7th
OUT - Wrexham General >>>> Chester >>>>> Liverpool Lime Street (Via Halton Curve)>>>>>York
RETURN - York >>>>> Manchester Victoria or Manchester Oxford Road >>>>> Chester >>>> Wrexham General

Wednesday 8th
OUT - Wrexham General >>>>> Crewe >>>>> London Euston >>(underground to Victoria)>> London Victoria >>>>>>>Brighton
RETURN - Brighton >>>>> London St Pancras/KingsCross (Thameslink) >> (walk to)>> London Euston >>>>> Wrexham General

Thursday 9th
Wrexham General >>>> Shrewsbury >>(via Heart of wales line)>> Swansea >>>>Cardiff Central >>>> Wrexham General (once again on the 'Gerald' train)

I've booked reservations on all the long distance Avanti West Coast services that I'm traveling on and I'll be booking reservations for Cross Country and the TFW Gerald Train as soon as they become available to book.

I've tried to allow plenty of time for changing trains. The only day it could be a bit tight is on the Monday when I head home from Penzance with an average change time of 15 minutes.

So anyway it would be really interesting to hear your thoughts on my plan.

Cheers

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Sunday 5th June : Slow and leisurely day out to St. Ives

I appreciate you may desire a rest after the Aberdeen to Penzance marathon but in my view the planned Sunday is hardly cost effective use of a significant financial outlay.
How about a slow and leisurely morning then do your Monday itinerary starting Sunday around lunchtime - or a variation of it since presumably Gerald is not available on Sunday.
This would give you Monday free for further trips which could be planned around use of Gerald on the final leg.

Otherwise it looks a decent plan.

 

[Iskra]

I appreciate you may desire a rest after the Aberdeen to Penzance marathon but in my view the planned Sunday is hardly cost effective use of a significant financial outlay.
How about a slow and leisurely morning then do your Monday itinerary starting Sunday around lunchtime - or a variation of it since presumably Gerald is not available on Sunday.
This would give you Monday free for further trips which could be planned around use of Gerald on the final leg.

Otherwise it looks a decent plan.

I agree on both counts. A full day in St Ives is a long time to spend there. And although this itinerary would be a very good one on a STD class ALR, it isn't getting great value for money on the first class element due to too much time on trains with poor/non existent 1st class catering. Although that said, at face value just the XC train in 1st class is a significant saving on a 1st ALR compared to a walk up ticket...

Have you not considered spending more time on operators with better catering- ie Avanti and LNER? To me going to Brighton on Electrostar is a waste on a 1st class ALR, why not head North on LNER instead?

 

[davsarg]

I've worked out that even with ticket splitting, the same journeys would cost over £1200 without the rover so I'll still be saving anyway. The idea of St.Ives is for two reasons. Firstly. I've always wanted to go (a bit like taking the heart of wales line)and secondly, after two long days of travelling (especially on the XC train) I'll be in need of a bit of a rest to re-charge my batteries. Plus the fact that the friday, saturday and sunday nights are the only ones I'm able to stay away.

 

[Hadrian]

Approaching 52 years ago, in the autumn of 1970, I bought a 14 day 1st class all line rover and used a sleeper every one of the 15 nights. My main objectives were to travel on some interesting named trains and eat most meals in restaurant cars. I also took in distant Scottish lines (Oban and Thurso) and 'survived' without a restaurant car (buffet instead) for those round trips from Glasgow and Inverness. The day I went to Mallaig I took the sleeper from Kings Cross (with different restaurant cars for dinner and breakfast) and had lunch and dinner on the way back to Glasgow (in the same diner as breakfast in the morning).

On a couple of occasions on arrival in the morning I used railway hotels, where one could get a peaceful bath and an excellent breakfast before starting the rest of the day a little later.

The highlight from a culinary perspective was the first day (Sunday) when, after taking the sleeper from Paddington (leaving after midnight) to Penzance I returned to Paddington on the Cornish Riviera. The diner was attached at Plymouth - I followed my normal habit of taking the first sitting for Lunch (even if rather early). An excellent meal including plenty of roast beef. Three more full sittings followed with demand not fully satisfied so a fifth sitting of whatever was left (mostly high tea ingredients) started just before Reading. They do not do it like that any more. Then the let down was continuing on to Manchester from Euston with the advertised diner unstaffed - the only occasion in the two weeks when I could eat none of the expected on-train fare.

Many of the daytime journey were on what latterly became Intercity and included a fine variety of dining vehicles - Pullmans ancient and modern, first opens (mark I and II), loose chaired (RUO) and even several Mark II second opens (the ones with 2+1 seating and rather mean tables). Some meals were eaten in the vehicle containing the kitchen - a griddle car, several RUs (with loose seats) and an RF.

All of which would be rather different in the current era. No dining at all on many of the equivalent trains and much less variety of rolling stock. It was quite tiring and the quality of the ride in the sleepers was rather variable. Twice I experienced 12 wheel sleepers which rode even worse than the Scottish internal sleepers which lacked B4 bogies. I do not think I would try a similar trip again! I leave that to those younger and more tolerant of limited creature comforts.

 

[xotGD]

If I was doing an ALR I would be doing an overnight train every night. Spending money on a hotel when you have got a valid ticket in your pocket seems like a waste.

 

[davsarg]

If I was doing an ALR I would be doing an overnight train every night. Spending money on a hotel when you have got a valid ticket in your pocket seems like a waste.

But then you'd be spending every night just travelling between either London and Scotland or London and Cornwall. That feels a bit limiting to me.

 

[xotGD]

But then you'd be spending every night just travelling between either London and Scotland or London and Cornwall. That feels a bit limiting to me.

You could do a couple of overnights. For example, after arriving into Aberdeen, sleeper to London, next day (say) in East Anglia then, as you would like to spend some time in Cornwall anyway, getting there on the sleeper would be ideal.

And avoids sitting on a Voyager for a very long time from Aberdeen to Penzance!

 

[Magdalia]

If you value your sleep then it is difficult to get good value out of an all line rover. I have only ever done one once, in 2002, when it was still possible to get in and out of Penzance in daylight loco hauled, and there was still classic a/c electric traction on the WCML.

The current plan does not make good use of a very expensive outlay. Sunday is virtually a dead day, and NSE trips like Brighton are poor value. Given that you are based so close to Central Wales, it makes sense to do that as a day trip, not as part of an all line rover, avoiding duplication of two identical afternoons too. My enhancements to the itinerary would be:

• If you have not been to Cornwall before, do two or possibly three of the branches on the Sunday.
• Swap Norwich for Brighton, possibly including one of the Norfolk branches too.
• Save Central Wales for another day and instead take in a day on the ECML or MML.
• If you have not been on a sleeper before, it is a must to do at least one.

 

[43096]

You could do a couple of overnights. For example, after arriving into Aberdeen, sleeper to London, next day (say) in East Anglia then, as you would like to spend some time in Cornwall anyway, getting there on the sleeper would be ideal.

And avoids sitting on a Voyager for a very long time from Aberdeen to Penzance!

Agreed. Spending a day on a Voyager from Aberdeen to Penzance is a poor use of a day.

Mind you I've just looked at the ALR first class price and it's an absolute rip-off. You can get a 10-days-in-two-months first class all countries Interrail for just over half the price of the ALR, and that comes without any stupid time restrictions as to when you can leave or arrive at certain stations.

 

[Gloster]

It all depends on whether you want to extract every penny of value out of your Rover, or whether you just want to do a lot of things in a way that is cheaper than doing them one at a time. It is great to spend your nights on the sleeper, unless you are so tired that you fall asleep at teatime and miss something you were looking forward to.

 

[ChrisC]

Taking it easy on the Sunday with a day in St Ives does seem a waste when you have paid so much for just 7 days travel, especially 1st Class. However, I fully understand the need to have a rest. That’s the problem with the ALR and one of the reasons why I’ve never done one. I always thought that when I retired and had a Senior Rail Card to get it at a reduced rate, I would do a 14 Day 1st Class one. Now I’ve reached that age the thoughts of feeling that I must travel considerable distances each day to get my money’s worth puts me off. I would now need one or two days off to rest. If they would do something like 8 days in 15 or even 7 days in 10, I think I would probably do more than one a year.

 

[davsarg]

Agreed. Spending a day on a Voyager from Aberdeen to Penzance is a poor use of a day.

Mind you I've just looked at the ALR first class price and it's an absolute rip-off. You can get a 10-days-in-two-months first class all countries Interrail for just over half the price of the ALR, and that comes without any stupid time restrictions as to when you can leave or arrive at certain stations.

Except that the Interrail pass can't be used in the UK with the exception of making a single outbound and single inbound trip to and from another country during the validity of the pass

 

[Andy Pacer]

It's a shame the "Gerald" restaurant service is no longer included in the ticket price, used to be the highlight of the week on an ALR for me.

 

[davsarg]

• If you have not been to Cornwall before, do two or possibly three of the branches on the Sunday.
• Swap Norwich for Brighton, possibly including one of the Norfolk branches too.
• Save Central Wales for another day and instead take in a day on the ECML or MML.
• If you have not been on a sleeper before, it is a must to do at least one.

Doing more branches in Cornwall - Yes, good idea but depends on how I'm feeling on the day.

Doing Norwich and Cromer instead of Brighton - That was something I had actually thought about before deciding on Brighton.... hmm, something to think about

ECML - hmmm, flat and straight and rather boring, especially between XC and Darlington

The sleeper doesn't float my boat - or whatever the train equivalent of that is . Seriously, I would never get any sleep then I would just be totally knackered the following day

 

[davsarg]

It's a shame the "Gerald" restaurant service is no longer included in the ticket price, used to be the highlight of the week on an ALR for me.

Do you know how much the cost of the meal is now please?

 

[43096]

Except that the Interrail pass can't be used in the UK with the exception of making a single outbound and single inbound trip to and from another country during the validity of the pass

True, I was more making a point about pricing (although an Interrail is far more enjoyable, too!).

 

[Magdalia]

ECML - hmmm, flat and straight and rather boring, especially between XC and Darlington

I was thinking more of the south end of the ECML (and also the MML), routes that you are unlikely to use except as part of an all line rover. Starting from Wrexham you could go over to Derby or Nottingham then do the ECML one way and the MML the other way, only having to cross the road between termini in London. And both St Pancras and Kings Cross are well worth seeing in their own right.

The sleeper doesn't float my boat - or whatever the train equivalent of that is . Seriously, I would never get any sleep then I would just be totally knackered the following day

My sleeper days are behind me for that very reason. If that's your judgement stick with it!

 

[mrcheek]

Far too much negativity in this thread.

Seven days of travel in a row can be exhausting (speaking as someone who has done no fewer than 13 ALRs, always of 14 days). A partial rest day is a very good idea. Especially as rail services on a Sunday have been appalling for the last few years on long distance services.

Using sleeper services every night would be daft, since you wont get a good night's sleep, and you cant enjoy the view at night time either!

Make sure you have back up plans in place, since things often go wrong. But aside from that, looks like a good plan. Enjoy, and make sure to let us know how it all went!

 

[mrcheek]

Also, remember that if any trains are delayed, make use of delay repay. Since any refund is calculated on the basis of a First Class single fare, it can end up being a substantial amount

 

[stephens]

You could do a couple of overnights. For example, after arriving into Aberdeen, sleeper to London, next day (say) in East Anglia then, as you would like to spend some time in Cornwall anyway, getting there on the sleeper would be ideal.

And avoids sitting on a Voyager for a very long time from Aberdeen to Penzance!

I enjoy an Aberdeen to Penzance trip on a 1st class ALR, I'm doing one next week. I enjoy going from one end of the country to the other in less than 24 hours.
My route is LNER 0952 Aberdeen to Kings Cross then that night's Night Riviera sleeper Paddington to Penzance. Bert supplement on the sleeper is only £50 - cheaper than hotels.
I would advise against doing the Caledonian sleeper as the Mark V stock is poor quality and the berth supplement is £180.

 

[davsarg]

Bert supplement on the sleeper is only £50 - cheaper than hotels.

Is that for a single berth or do you have to share?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Do you know how much the cost of the meal is now please?

Food and drink on our trains | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

Different tariffs depending whether breakfast, or number of evening courses. Still good value, but was nice when it was part of the ticket price.

I'm sure I will use it when I do my next 1st ALR.

 

[david1212]

What we do not know is your reasons for choosing the destinations and if specific things you want to do and see while there. Also what railway routes would be new to you and which you travel at least occasionally.

I presume you specifically want the experience of travelling Aberdeen - Penzance in one day.

On the Tuesday I would think about making a loop e.g York >> Derby >> Crewe >> Chester or the reverse although no first class for part.

For Brighton to/from London use two routes. Once could be could be MML or via Reading. East coast perhaps too long plus part repeats the Tuesday to York. An alternative to Brighton would be heading to Kent.

On the Sunday while needing to use the bus also visit St Michaels Mount rather than so long in St Ives. Another idea is only one night in Penzance, St Ives then Looe then Plymouth, Exeter or Torbay overnight ?

 

[stephens]

Is that for a single berth or do you have to share?

Single

 

[davsarg]

What we do not know is your reasons for choosing the destinations and if specific things you want to do and see while there. Also what railway routes would be new to you and which you travel at least occasionally.

I presume you specifically want the experience of travelling Aberdeen - Penzance in one day.

On the Tuesday I would think about making a loop e.g York >> Derby >> Crewe >> Chester or the reverse although no first class for part.

For Brighton to/from London use two routes. Once could be could be MML or via Reading. East coast perhaps too long plus part repeats the Tuesday to York. An alternative to Brighton would be heading to Kent.

On the Sunday while needing to use the bus also visit St Michaels Mount rather than so long in St Ives. Another idea is only one night in Penzance, St Ives then Looe then Plymouth, Exeter or Torbay overnight ?

The seed and inspiration for the whole idea was actually the longest train video that Geoff and Vicky (All the Stations) did for the direct train between Aberdeen and Penzance. I thought to myself... "I would love to do that!", so the Friday to Monday has been built around that. At first I was going to do ticket splitting, but then quickly realised that a 7 day ALR was going to be a bit cheaper and give me the advantage of three days of extra travelling on top.

I deliberately chose the Friday to Monday route to minimise traveling the same tracks twice, although travelling to and from Penzance and Bristol Parkway was unfortunately unavoidable).

I chose St.Ives for the Sunday cos It's really nice there and cos I'll be needing a quiet relaxing day out in the fresh air after two solid days of traveling.

I chose York basically cos I want to go to the National Railway Museum, although I have been considering carrying on to Scarborough , down to Hull and then back to Manchester and then home to wrexham.... but the Railway Museum is always a big temptation

Brighton was a difficult choice. What I really wanted to do that day was to get to Manchester early then take the direct XC service from Manchester to Bournemouth, but I don't think there'd really be enough time to spend in Bournemouth when I got there... but it's still tempting.

The Heart of Wales line was a simple choice - I've never travelled that line and I've been wanting to do it for ages (again, Geoff and Vicky have inspired me). However some have pointed out that it might be better to do this as a separate trip another time.... this is something I am considering

As far as getting value for money is concerned, I'm not interested in squeezing out every bit of value out of an ALR by spending all day and night zooming up and down the country on long distance day and night services - where's the fun in that!. As long as the ALR works out cheaper in the end than the equivalent individual tickets then that's good enough for me. All I care about is having a relaxing week, seeing some nice places and definately ticking off that epic Aberdeen to Penzance direct train.

 

[davsarg]

Also, remember that if any trains are delayed, make use of delay repay. Since any refund is calculated on the basis of a First Class single fare, it can end up being a substantial amount

That's a good idea but I do have a question. Assuming you don't have a reservation, how do you prove you were on a delayed train when you have an ALR?

 

[david1212]

The seed and inspiration for the whole idea was actually the longest train video that Geoff and Vicky (All the Stations) did for the direct train between Aberdeen and Penzance. I thought to myself... "I would love to do that!", so the Friday to Monday has been built around that. At first I was going to do ticket splitting, but then quickly realised that a 7 day ALR was going to be a bit cheaper and give me the advantage of three days of extra travelling on top.

I deliberately chose the Friday to Monday route to minimise traveling the same tracks twice, although travelling to and from Penzance and Bristol Parkway was unfortunately unavoidable).

I chose St.Ives for the Sunday cos It's really nice there and cos I'll be needing a quiet relaxing day out in the fresh air after two solid days of traveling.

Indeed St.Ives is pleasant to walk around, sit & relax so long as at least dry and ideally bright and warm if not sunny.

I chose York basically cos I want to go to the National Railway Museum, although I have been considering carrying on to Scarborough , down to Hull and then back to Manchester and then home to wrexham.... but the Railway Museum is always a big temptation

I did wonder if NRM was part of the agenda, also if timing going on to Scarborough then down to Hull worked without an early start and/or late return.

Brighton was a difficult choice. What I really wanted to do that day was to get to Manchester early then take the direct XC service from Manchester to Bournemouth, but I don't think there'd really be enough time to spend in Bournemouth when I got there... but it's still tempting.

With the direct XC service only every two hours and no real alternative changing at Reading then Basingstoke your options are limited. This is why I did not suggest returning from Brighton via Southampton. Then Bournemouth station a long walk to the town and even further to the seafront. Quicker with the bus but definitely need to be back at the station in good time for your return train.

In comparison a much more frequent service to/from London then on to/from Brighton. Briskly walking about 15 minutes to/from the seafront. For the Lanes / Laines ( I'm not getting into a discussion about which is correct ) and Royal Pavilion turn left part way down.

The thought I had was including High Speed 1 as i think ALR is valid on UK trains just not Eurostar. Maybe an alternative if weather is not good for Brighton.

The Heart of Wales line was a simple choice - I've never travelled that line and I've been wanting to do it for ages (again, Geoff and Vicky have inspired me). However some have pointed out that it might be better to do this as a separate trip another time.... this is something I am considering

It is a route I want to do sometime too.
While I note your comment below about not getting maximum value from Wrexham walk on fares are not high so do think about better value. While difficult not to repeat routes this would cost much more if times work for you. Wrexham > Hereford > Worcester > Cheltenham > Swindon > Didcot/Reading > Oxford > Birmingham > Shrewsbury > Wrexham or of course in reverse. Cheltenham station is far from the town but you could have breaks in Worcester and Oxford.

As far as getting value for money is concerned, I'm not interested in squeezing out every bit of value out of an ALR by spending all day and night zooming up and down the country on long distance day and night services - where's the fun in that!. As long as the ALR works out cheaper in the end than the equivalent individual tickets then that's good enough for me. All I care about is having a relaxing week, seeing some nice places and definately ticking off that epic Aberdeen to Penzance direct train.

 

[miklcct]

Hi Everyone,

I've bought a 7 day 1st class ALRR for the beginning of June. Wrexham General is my home station and I would love your thoughts on my current plan:

Friday 3rd June
Wrexham General >>>> Chester >>>> Crewe >>>> Glasgow Central >> (walk to)>> Glasgow Queen Street >>>> Inverness >>>> Aberdeen

Saturday 4th June
Aberdeen >>>> Penzance (hopefully XC direct!)

Sunday 5th June : Slow and leisurely day out to St. Ives

Monday 6th
Penzance >>>> Newton Abbot >>>> Bristol Parkway >>>> Newport >>>> Wrexham General (on the 'Gerald' train)

Tuesday 7th
OUT - Wrexham General >>>> Chester >>>>> Liverpool Lime Street (Via Halton Curve)>>>>>York
RETURN - York >>>>> Manchester Victoria or Manchester Oxford Road >>>>> Chester >>>> Wrexham General

Wednesday 8th
OUT - Wrexham General >>>>> Crewe >>>>> London Euston >>(underground to Victoria)>> London Victoria >>>>>>>Brighton
RETURN - Brighton >>>>> London St Pancras/KingsCross (Thameslink) >> (walk to)>> London Euston >>>>> Wrexham General

Thursday 9th
Wrexham General >>>> Shrewsbury >>(via Heart of wales line)>> Swansea >>>>Cardiff Central >>>> Wrexham General (once again on the 'Gerald' train)

I've booked reservations on all the long distance Avanti West Coast services that I'm traveling on and I'll be booking reservations for Cross Country and the TFW Gerald Train as soon as they become available to book.

I've tried to allow plenty of time for changing trains. The only day it could be a bit tight is on the Monday when I head home from Penzance with an average change time of 15 minutes.

So anyway it would be really interesting to hear your thoughts on my plan.

Cheers

The entire industry is deliberately set up and run as a race to the bottom, first there " wins".

The seed and inspiration for the whole idea was actually the longest train video that Geoff and Vicky (All the Stations) did for the direct train between Aberdeen and Penzance. I thought to myself... "I would love to do that!", so the Friday to Monday has been built around that. At first I was going to do ticket splitting, but then quickly realised that a 7 day ALR was going to be a bit cheaper and give me the advantage of three days of extra travelling on top.

I deliberately chose the Friday to Monday route to minimise traveling the same tracks twice, although travelling to and from Penzance and Bristol Parkway was unfortunately unavoidable).

I chose St.Ives for the Sunday cos It's really nice there and cos I'll be needing a quiet relaxing day out in the fresh air after two solid days of traveling.

I chose York basically cos I want to go to the National Railway Museum, although I have been considering carrying on to Scarborough , down to Hull and then back to Manchester and then home to wrexham.... but the Railway Museum is always a big temptation

Brighton was a difficult choice. What I really wanted to do that day was to get to Manchester early then take the direct XC service from Manchester to Bournemouth, but I don't think there'd really be enough time to spend in Bournemouth when I got there... but it's still tempting.

The Heart of Wales line was a simple choice - I've never travelled that line and I've been wanting to do it for ages (again, Geoff and Vicky have inspired me). However some have pointed out that it might be better to do this as a separate trip another time.... this is something I am considering

As far as getting value for money is concerned, I'm not interested in squeezing out every bit of value out of an ALR by spending all day and night zooming up and down the country on long distance day and night services - where's the fun in that!. As long as the ALR works out cheaper in the end than the equivalent individual tickets then that's good enough for me. All I care about is having a relaxing week, seeing some nice places and definately ticking off that epic Aberdeen to Penzance direct train.

You have missed the best part of the National Rail by not including HS1, Great Western Main Line, East Coast Main Line, etc. in your plan!

If I were you, I will do

2022-06-04
Go to Birmingham and take the XC train to Penzance

2022-06-05
day out in St Ives, then go to Southampton

2022-06-06
Visit beaches en-route along the Coastway until Dover, and stay a night there

2022-06-07
Take the HS1 in the morning peak to London, have a day in London, then go to York in the afternoon to visit the museum, and travel to Aberdeen for the night

2022-06-08
Have a day out in Aberdeen, then take the sleeper back to Paddington

2022-06-09
Go to Bristol / Newport / Cardiff / Swansea and have a day out there

2022-06-10
Return home by Heart of Wales line.

On the above itinerary, you can experience the following:
- the XC Aberdeen - Penzance train on day 1
- high speed travel on Great Western Main Line, East Coast Main Line, HS1
- peak hour travel into London on a commuter route
- the fabulous beaches in Sussex such as Brighton and Eastbourne
- the Caledonian Sleeper on day 5
- Heart of Wales line on day 7
- days out in big cities including London, Bristol, York, etc.

 

[Mikw]

You should visit Leicester, it's officially the best city in the entire universe.....