All London Tube ticket offices to close, union claims

[Manchester77]

All 268 Tube ticket offices could be closed under "secret" London Underground plans, the TSSA transport union and Labour Party have warned.

They claim to have seen leaked documents that suggest the ticket offices will close and 6,000 jobs could be axed by 2020.

London Underground (LU) said 6,000 job losses was "completely unfeasible".

It said it planned to run more trains in future and continue to staff all its stations.

The Transport Salaried Staffs Association (TSSA) said up to 6,000 rail and Tube jobs could be axed over the next six years.

The first 2,000 could go in the next two years with Tube ticket offices replaced by travel centres, mainly at major stations such as Waterloo and Euston, the union said.

'More trains'

TSSA general secretary Manuel Cortes said: "The mass ticket offices closures are just the start. We expect 6,000 jobs to be axed by 2020.

"We have a deal with TfL which clearly rules out compulsory redundancies. If Mayor Boris Johnson tears that up, all bets are off.

"Here is a man who was elected in 2008 on a promise to keep every ticket office open."

Shadow London Minister Sadiq Khan said: "Boris Johnson pledged to keep a ticket office open at every Tube station, in his manifesto.

"These revelations are a complete betrayal of that promise."

Managing Director of LU and London Rail, Mike Brown said: "We are investing in London Underground to support jobs and growth in London and across the UK.

"We are committed to running more trains and that all Tube stations will continue to be staffed in future, with staff visible and available to help our customers."

The Mayor of London's office is yet to provide a response.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23670036

Surely this isn't true. And even if it is I'd doubt all would close, especially those at touristy stations as in my experiences people who aren't familiar will go to the person instead of machine?

 

[causton]

TfL are being very vague with that quote though, implying that some of what's mentioned will happen...

...can't imagine it happening though!

 

[joeykins82]

Well George Osborne & the Treasury cut TfL's operating budget by £220m from 2014/5. If there's a villain in the story I'd argue that it isn't the unions, TfL, the GLA or even Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.

 

[jon0844]

By 2020 I can imagine smart card ticketing being available just about everywhere. You'll be able to pay with a contact less card if you don't use Oyster, so paper tickets and cash will pretty much be a thing of the past.

As such, realistically, there will be almost no need for any ticket staff. There won't even be as much need for ticket machines if you're merely topping up a card or adding a season ticket etc.

Away from London it might take longer before this happens but it's as inevitable as the many other jobs that no longer exist today.

To be honest, Labour couldn't keep all of these people in a job to twiddle their thumbs either. Nobody could.

What would need to happen is other roles created, whether working gates or providing some other customer service role.

 

[WatcherZero]

All 268 Tube ticket offices could be closed under plans to save millions of pounds, the Evening Standard has learned.



Ticket offices would be replaced by 20 plus “travel centres” at the larger stations such as Waterloo, Euston and King’s Cross.

Passengers wanting to buy tickets at other Tube or London Overground stations would have to use automatic machines instead.

This newspaper has seen a confidential TfL document which lists all 268 stations. It poses the question alongside each one are “ticket offices staying open?” By each station named it states the word “no”.

Transport for London refused to confirm or deny the move saying various proposals were being discussed and staff “would be told first”.

But TSSA union bosses, which represents ticket office staff, said 2,000 jobs could be lost in two years.

The union claimed thousands of jobs across the capital’s Tube and Overground services could go “by the end of the decade”.

Other roles under threat range from train guards to management and IT staff. Cuts are being planned by a Transport for London team working out of offices at Kings Building in Smith Square. The squad is headed by Mike Strzelecki. former safety director and now re-titled Director of Transformation.

The job losses are the result of a 12.5 per cent — £220 million — cut following the government’s June spending review. The TfL spokesman described one claim of 6,000 job cuts as “not recognised and completely unfeasible.” He said any figures were “pure speculation” and TfL had a no compulsory redundancy policy.

Mike Brown, managing director of London Underground and London Rail, said: “We are investing in LU to support jobs and growth in London and across the UK. We are committed to running more trains and that all stations will continue to be staffed in the future with staff visible and available to help our customers.

“Learning lessons from the successful London 2012 Games we are looking at how we can improve the service to our customers while delivering the best possible value for fare and taxpayers money.”

There was a furious reaction from Labour politicians and the transport unions which threatened waves of strike action if compulsory job cuts are forced through.

Manuel Cortes, leader of the TSSA union whose members work in the ticket offices, said: “We have a deal with TfL which clearly rules out compulsory redundancies.”

Sadiq Khan, Labour shadow minister for London, said: “These secret plans will have a devastating effect on the daily commute.”

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...be-axed-in-plan-to-save-millions-8757242.html

 

[ModernRailways]

For all it may be job losses. Quite a lot of those at stations outside of Zone 1/2 which see mostly Londoners/Commuters/local people, with very very little tourists (more importantly brain-dead tourists) don't need ticket offices as people can just use a ticket machine, or the more common method Oyster card.

Ticket Machines will need to be able to sell railcard discounted tickets, like the DLR machines (when they want too).

All stations would still be staffed as long as the barriers are in operation so you would still have someone there to be able to help out using a machine if necessary at the quieter stations.

At bigger Zone 1/2 stations there will be travel centres at touristy stations - essentially a ticket office - and then people manning ticket barriers at less touristy stations meaning they can help if required. All stations currently have two or more staff, it really isn't needed. Especially at quiet stations such as Amersham/Chesham. One person can work the ticket barriers and easily help out on the ticket machines if need be! Busy stations would have multiple staff members who would be able to assist.

One question that could be posed though, is how would people buy an Oyster card? Right now, if I forget mine I can go to the ticket office as soon as I arrive at the station, pay £5 and get the discounted fares. However, with no ticket office that would mean I would have to order one online a week in advance (no good if I've forgotten/lost it) or go to a travel centre. A good solution would be for ticket machines to be able to get your Oyster card details from a 'Cloud based system' that would be printed onto normal ticketing stock, so you could still use discounted fares. I believe a similar system is in IKEA whereby if you forget your IKEA Family card you can print a temporary one off that is only valid on that day. The only problem is it may be open to abuse, but the Oyster card right now could be abused in a similar fashion!

 

[Mojo]

All stations currently have two or more staff, it really isn't needed.

Not all stations have at least two members of staff - a not insignificant number just have a Station Supervisor on duty all day, although many of these locations have a part time CSA rostered to assist in the ticket hall for four hours during weekday mornings.

One question that could be posed though, is how would people buy an Oyster card? Right now, if I forget mine I can go to the ticket office as soon as I arrive at the station, pay £5 and get the discounted fares.

Ticket machines have been able to vend new Oyster cards for around 2 years now. The AFMs capable of doing this are fitted at all LU managed stations except for Roding Valley, Gunnersbury, Kew Gardens and all stations Queens Park - Harrow/Wealdstone. In addition to buying from these machines and buying online they are also available from TfL Travel Information Centres and hundreds of newsagents and other small shops across the London area.

 

[ModernRailways]

Not all stations have at least two members of staff - a not insignificant number just have a Station Supervisor on duty all day, although many of these locations have a part time CSA rostered to assist in the ticket hall for four hours during weekday mornings.

That will probably be why I've thought they had two staff. Whenever I've been to a station they have always had two staff members one working barriers, and one working in the ticket office. Barrier staff have always been chatting to the ticket office clerk whilst watching over the barriers.

Ticket machines have been able to vend new Oyster cards for around 2 years now. The AFMs capable of doing this are fitted at all LU managed stations except for Roding Valley, Gunnersbury, Kew Gardens and all stations Queens Park - Harrow/Wealdstone. In addition to buying from these machines and buying online they are also available from TfL Travel Information Centres and hundreds of newsagents and other small shops across the London area.

Forgot about newsagents, but ticket machines? That's a new one on me. I did buy my Oyster 4 years ago though and always top up online so I haven't really had any need to use a machine. When I plan to do some bashing I always buy paper travelcards online and collect them from a station, as Oyster hates me when I stay on the system too long :P

 

[bicbasher]

The LU TVM's will need upgrading to do the following:

Resolving incomplete Oyster journeys by offering a refund.
A print out of an Oyster Usage Statement.
Being able to add NR railcard and TfL Bus and Tram Photocard numbers to an Oyster.
Able to sell annual Travelcards and Bus & Tram Passes.
Exchange of faulty Oyster cards.

The last is wishful thinking, however I'd like to see them selling a full range of NR tickets, even if the station isn't served by NR services.

 

[gordonthemoron]

This is the same as Munich and to a, lesser extent, Berlin. However, won't the Barriers have to be manned or are they intending to get rid of the barriers too?

 

[joeykins82]

The intention is to close the ticket offices, not to completely remove the staff from the stations. It'll presumably mean that at the outer stations the same member of staff will be monitoring the barriers, (hopefully) providing assistance to anyone having issues with the TVMs and doing all of the other bits and bobs rather than having someone dedicated to sitting behind the ticket counter window.

 

[Mojo]

The LU TVMs will need upgrading to do the following:

Resolving incomplete Oyster journeys by offering a refund
...
Being able to add NR railcard and TfL Bus and Tram Photocard numbers to an Oyster.

The above are both already possible - with staff assistance.

For what it's worth, TVM is a National Rail abbreviation, for London Underground the abbreviation to describe the self-service machine is Pom (Passenger Operated Machine).

 

[jon0844]

I've always that National Rail machines should be known as PITA machines.

 

[Muzer]

I've always that National Rail machines should be known as PITA machines.

Can we come up with a plausible backronym for that?

(No, but seriously, I rather like many TVMs)

 

[tbtc]

Would people really notice a huge difference if some Underground ticket offices replaced by travel centres?

A rose by any other name...

 

[joeykins82]

It'll make the purchase of annual travelcards and the application of railcard discounts to Oyster cards a nuisance: the queues at the stations where there'd be a travel centre are horrendous all of the time already.

 

[ModernRailways]

It'll make the purchase of annual travelcards and the application of railcard discounts to Oyster cards a nuisance: the queues at the stations where there'd be a travel centre are horrendous all of the time already.

But there's a high chance Railcards will become smart and so you may be able to tap your railcard and then your Oyster to get the discount. Alternatively, you could do it online - if you have a Railcard bought online. If you're Railcard was bought in a train station and is a paper version then you would need to go to the station. Unless of course when you get a paper version from a station you are given some code so that you can register it online and add it to your Oyster.

Annual travelcards could be done online and you get an Oyster sent out to you with it loaded or you can load it up at a station. You must buy it online though.

There are plenty of ways around these problems.

 

[joeykins82]

I know you can buy annual TCs online, but you don't get the Gold Record Card nor the gold card discounted rates for out-of-zone travel, and until they've sorted out their processes to do tasks like this they'll have a hard time getting people on board.

 

[Mojo]

I know you can buy annual TCs online, but you don't get the Gold Record Card nor the gold card discounted rates for out-of-zone travel, and until they've sorted out their processes to do tasks like this they'll have a hard time getting people on board.

Many station staff have access to a facility on the ticket machines which allows Railcard/Gold card discounts to be added. You can also do this in newsagents if you can find a shopkeeper competent enough (cue laughter). According to a thread I've just read on the moneysavingexpert forum, someone had their Gold record card posted to them after collecting their Travelcard bought online.

 

[bicbasher]

Many station staff have access to a facility on the ticket machines which allows Railcard/Gold card discounts to be added. You can also do this in newsagents if you can find a shopkeeper competent enough (cue laughter).

I'm lucky enough to have a local newsagent who's trained all of his staff to add the Bus and Tram Photocard discount to Oyster, yet the majority of experiences I've had with Oyster Ticket Stops about adding the discount has been negative.

Then again, I remember one experience I had getting the discount added at Leicester Square ticket office where the clerk informed me that although my Oyster card was registered, my details were not showing on the system and he couldn't do it without me showing ID to prove who I was.

However, he went on the phone and got authorisation to add the discount regardless. However, 99% of the time, I have no problems getting it added every six months at a tube station.

 

[Muzer]

At Heathrow T1,2,3 I was asked to re-register my Oyster (despite it already having been registered) in order to have the railcard discount applied.

 

[bicbasher]

At Heathrow T1,2,3 I was asked to re-register my Oyster (despite it already having been registered) in order to have the railcard discount applied.

I registered my card at the London Travel Information Centre at Victoria station, where they used the older Oyster ticket stop terminals with the touch screen facility. At the time, Ticket Stops were getting the portable Oyster terminals instead.

 

[Ploughman]

Any ideas how people travelling on BR Staff Travel boxes will be able to buy priv tickets as now?

 

[SS4]

for London Underground the abbreviation to describe the self-service machine is Pom (Passenger Operated Machine).

Not gonna lie, pom was not the first thing I saw when reading that sentence

 

[Mojo]

Any ideas how people travelling on BR Staff Travel boxes will be able to buy priv tickets as now?

Priv discount has been available for a number of years on Oyster cards for single journeys 'Pay As You Go.' For LU single fares this is the cheapest way of making the journey.

 

[Darren R]

Not gonna lie, pom was not the first thing I saw when reading that sentence

Glad I'm not the only one! I did think that was an extraordinary service for TfL to be providing passengers!

 

[Tiny Tim]

Although there are plenty of alternatives to ticket offices it requires being familiar with the system to use them. Whilst outlying stations might lose their ticket offices, central London will still need to show some hospitality to visitors to the capital, and not just visitors from abroad.

 

[jon0844]

Once everyone gets an Oyster to travel, the people needed in central London to help tourists will be staff on the ground, not behind a desk.

 

[causton]

Priv discount has been available for a number of years on Oyster cards for single journeys 'Pay As You Go.' For LU single fares this is the cheapest way of making the journey.

Don't believe these are available for all TOCs though...? Or are they?

 

[Mojo]

Don't believe these are available for all TOCs though...? Or are they?

What do you mean? If someone has a Priv that gets them a discount on LU single fares then they can have this discount put onto a standard blue Oyster card, irrespective of their employer.