ALR planning

[Muzer]

I'm going to do my first ALR (All Line Rover for those who don't already know - a ticket that allows you to travel on (almost) any National Rail service around the country for a period of days). Not quite sure when - probably not over Christmas, so it'll probably end up being Easter break from uni. 7 days, standard class, 16-25 Railcard. Bearing in mind I'll have to try to work around another commitment in Easter (this shouldn't be too hard as I get 4 weeks' break), Is there a recommended time to go such that it won't be insanely busy (especially on the sleeper - see below)?

Firstly, how do you buy them? Can you buy them well in advance or do they have similar, weird restrictions to season tickets such that you can buy them no more than a day in advance from the ticket office?


I'm interested in covering routes, but I don't think I'll rush around too much - I'd quite like to see some of the Scottish highland routes, as I expect they're pretty amazing and I've been to Scotland by rail very few times. Any particular suggestions for these?

Because of this, I'll probably go on sleeper services. How exactly does this work? How much extra does it usually cost? Can I go up the night before the validity date (I seem to remember reading something about sleepers being somewhat flexible in validity dates? Am I making this up?) or do I have to spend the first day doing something else to go up on the first evening? I've only been on a sleeper once, with my parents, a long time ago, so is there anything I should probably know (I know about the whole sharing berths thing on the Caledonian sleeper).

Any other suggestions for interesting places to go/stay, interesting things to do, etc. (not necessarily around Scotland - I quite possibly won't spend all 7 days there)?



I've only just decided I'll do one, so I haven't even started looking at route planning or anything yet, so please do excuse the vagueness. I plan to print off some sort of network map and figure out where I want to go, also armed with RTT and/or a healthy stack of timetables
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think since I still haven't been a rail enthusiast for too long, it's probably easier to say what I have done than what I haven't:

* I've made a dent in services around London, but still haven't done much of that
* I've done a significant portion of Devon, and a friend and I plan to do Devon and Cornwall together at some point so I don't think doing Devon or Cornwall is necessary
* I've done a lot of North Wales
* I've done little bits around Greater Manchester, Cheshire and Liverpool, though not too much
* I've done the S&C (though I suppose you can't do too much of that...)
* I've not done much else - highland Scotland, lowland Scotland, North East, North West (north of Manchester/Liverpool), South East (in the sense of East of London, I've done a little more West of London only by virtue of living in that area), South Wales - pretty much all of the Midlands - all places I've barely touched. Any recommendations would be much welcome. I'm interested in covering routes, travelling on any interesting/unusual rolling stock (Chiltern bubble car and silver train perhaps?), nice views from trains (hopefully with the odd photo opportunity - I'm not a photter but have friends who are so I'm sure they'd appreciate me bringing back lots of lovely photos), and generally anything interesting/quirky to a person from SWT land


I'm not averse to paying extra for various things eg for single journeys (like the myriad of cross-London transfers I'm sure I'll have to do), but don't really want to spend days shuttling around on various metro systems if they're not actually valid on the ALR - wouldn't exactly be the most efficient use of the cost of one

 

[harry42]

Northern Rail: Hope Valley Line
Northern Rail: Buxton Line
East Midlands Trains: Derwent Valley Line
All abppve feed into peak district with good scenery.

Stoubridge branch line: people carry movers?

Any questions about the east midlands railways, I'd happily answer!

Friday generally busy day on all services I find.

 

[anthony263]

I reconmend a trip along the west wales line between Swansea & Carmarthen as you get some good views of the sea between Lougher and Ferryside.

The Valley Lines network is pretty scenic one of the best lines being the Rhymney Line.
The line between Severn Tunnel Junction and Gloucester has some good views as well.

 

[Steve wakerly]

You can buy the ALR up to a around week in advance at any staffed station. Scotrail sleepers you need to make a reservation for both seated area and berths. The berths they charge a supplement, as to using the the ticket the night before check with the rail company.

 

[alex17595]

You can them up to a year in advance on the first great western website.

 

[Lrd]

I did an ALR earlier this year (and currently planning one for the end of this month). To give you an idea on what I did I have attached a copy of my itinerary (sorry about the formatting, I had to somehow convert it from a .pages (Mac) file and that was the best I could do without buying iWorks) for you to take a gander at.

Is there a recommended time to go such that it won't be insanely busy (especially on the sleeper - see below)?

Where the days are long and it's fairly warm, I'm sure Easter will be a good time but there tends to be a fair bit of long engineering works blockades across the country so you'll have to plan carefully.

Firstly, how do you buy them? Can you buy them well in advance or do they have similar, weird restrictions to season tickets such that you can buy them no more than a day in advance from the ticket office?

You can buy them online on the FGW website or from the ticket office, I think they can be purchased a few days beforehand but you'll be lucky to find someone that can do it. I like to purchase on the day because it is quite an expensive ticket and I don't want to risk losing it.

I'm interested in covering routes, but I don't think I'll rush around too much - I'd quite like to see some of the Scottish highland routes, as I expect they're pretty amazing and I've been to Scotland by rail very few times. Any particular suggestions for these?

Check out my plan, I did a loop via the Isle of Skye which was a good way to get a lot of route coverage. The ferry and bus only cost a few quid and was well worth the time saving on not having to go back over the same route again. All routes out of Inverness are very scenic and I loved it up in the Highlands.

Because of this, I'll probably go on sleeper services. How exactly does this work? How much extra does it usually cost? Can I go up the night before the validity date (I seem to remember reading something about sleepers being somewhat flexible in validity dates? Am I making this up?) or do I have to spend the first day doing something else to go up on the first evening? I've only been on a sleeper once, with my parents, a long time ago, so is there anything I should probably know (I know about the whole sharing berths thing on the Caledonian sleeper).

When I did the sleepers (both Caledonian and Night Rivieria) I did them in the seated portion which just required a free seat reservation which you can get from any ticket office. You can use the sleeper a day before your ALR but you will need to purchase a ticket up to a calling point that is after midnight (Crewe or Preston or wherever it is they stop). You can pay a supplement (~£50) to have a berth but I have not done this so can't advise you.

Any other suggestions for interesting places to go/stay, interesting things to do, etc. (not necessarily around Scotland - I quite possibly won't spend all 7 days there)?

Try and get a few nights in a hotel/hostel and not spend every night on the sleeper as you will want to shower and refresh yourself. A good website I use for hostels is www.hostelworld.com where you can reserve a room and pay a 10% deposit and pay the rest on the night.

I've only just decided I'll do one, so I haven't even started looking at route planning or anything yet, so please do excuse the vagueness. I plan to print off some sort of network map and figure out where I want to go, also armed with RTT and/or a healthy stack of timetables

Be sure to check and double check your connections and be sure to use the Working time table if you want a few extra minutes, especially sleepers as they have a fair amount of padding and can arrive into London 30 mins early the majority of the time.

It's also worth having a back up plan noted down, or at least know the frequencies on routes and alternative routes to take just in case it all goes wrong. I used my phone and had all sorts of maps, timetables and info saved which I could use to help me get out of sticky situations. Also, take paper copies with you in case you lose your phone/laptop etc. This also applies for directions to hostels/hotels, print off the reservations and directions on getting there, there is nothing worse than wondering around a new town looking for refuge when you are hungry/tired and it's piddling down with rain. Always plan for the worse to happen and be prepared for it.

I was quite lucky and didn't encounter any major delays but I did miss a couple of trains and had to replan an entire day, luckily I had my laptop on me, so just went to McDonalds and used their free Wi-Fi.

I'm not averse to paying extra for various things eg for single journeys (like the myriad of cross-London transfers I'm sure I'll have to do), but don't really want to spend days shuttling around on various metro systems if they're not actually valid on the ALR - wouldn't exactly be the most efficient use of the cost of one

I managed to plan it so that I didn't have many cross-London transfers, mainly because I kept to the North of London and the South West. For the couple of transfers I did do, I just used Oyster.

I was rather doubtful that I would make it through the whole week and it was hard at times but I just kept going and made it through and had a fantastic time. You just have to spend time planning on what you want to do and check it all over and you'll be fine and I'm sure you'll have a great time.

 

[Buttsy]

A few pointers I would offer:

1. Consider the areas you're going such as Scotland and Wales as you may find that these would be cheaper to do on an area specific rover than an ALR and allow you to really enjoy these over a 7 day period rather than 'rushing' it;
2. If you get lucky with Scotrail's website, you can pick up a sleeper berth (Bargain Berths) for as little as £19 so you don't have to worry about ticket validities;
3. The GBTT is probably the most useful document you can have with you after the ticket;
4. Where there is a very frequent service to your next destination, it's often worth choosing a service 30 mins/1 hour later to allow for late running or food stops;
5. Mallaig - Armadale - Broadford - Kyle is a great run, but check the bus times as they change depending on schooldays (services 51 & 52 - there is a South Skye timetable on the Stagecoach website, but the service may be run by MacLeans coaches in the winter/spring. Also, Ardvassar is a max 5 min walk from Armadale ferry terminal).

 

[Muzer]

Northern Rail: Hope Valley Line
Northern Rail: Buxton Line
East Midlands Trains: Derwent Valley Line
All abppve feed into peak district with good scenery.

I'll have a look at these.

Stoubridge branch line: people carry movers?

Ooh, hadn't considered this - I might try to fit that in, good idea.

Any questions about the east midlands railways, I'd happily answer!

Friday generally busy day on all services I find.

Thanks!

I reconmend a trip along the west wales line between Swansea & Carmarthen as you get some good views of the sea between Lougher and Ferryside.

The Valley Lines network is pretty scenic one of the best lines being the Rhymney Line.
The line between Severn Tunnel Junction and Gloucester has some good views as well.

Thanks, I'll have a look at these as well.

You can them up to a year in advance on the first great western website.

Ah - that's the sort of thing I was hoping to hear! Excellent.

I did an ALR earlier this year (and currently planning one for the end of this month). To give you an idea on what I did I have attached a copy of my itinerary (sorry about the formatting, I had to somehow convert it from a .pages (Mac) file and that was the best I could do without buying iWorks) for you to take a gander at.

Thanks a lot for that - it looks like it'll be rather useful. It certainly gives me a good idea of the amount of stuff I can get done.

Where the days are long and it's fairly warm, I'm sure Easter will be a good time but there tends to be a fair bit of long engineering works blockades across the country so you'll have to plan carefully.

Yep - noted. Hopefully I'll be able to get a period of easter in the uni holidays but not in the school holidays, to avoid both business and engineering works.

You can buy them online on the FGW website or from the ticket office, I think they can be purchased a few days beforehand but you'll be lucky to find someone that can do it. I like to purchase on the day because it is quite an expensive ticket and I don't want to risk losing it.

True - I expect the guard wouldn't mind the commission as well, assuming it's done as a percentage type thing! I think I'll buy reasonably far in advance, though - I think I trust myself not to lose it.

Check out my plan, I did a loop via the Isle of Skye which was a good way to get a lot of route coverage. The ferry and bus only cost a few quid and was well worth the time saving on not having to go back over the same route again. All routes out of Inverness are very scenic and I loved it up in the Highlands.

An excellent idea. I hadn't considered this, either. Thanks!

When I did the sleepers (both Caledonian and Night Rivieria) I did them in the seated portion which just required a free seat reservation which you can get from any ticket office. You can use the sleeper a day before your ALR but you will need to purchase a ticket up to a calling point that is after midnight (Crewe or Preston or wherever it is they stop). You can pay a supplement (~£50) to have a berth but I have not done this so can't advise you.

Right, thought this might be the case. In that case, probably best to spend the first day knocking around the south (perhaps I can do some Chiltern-y things and/or have a go on HS1) and get to the sleeper in the evening.

Try and get a few nights in a hotel/hostel and not spend every night on the sleeper as you will want to shower and refresh yourself. A good website I use for hostels is www.hostelworld.com where you can reserve a room and pay a 10% deposit and pay the rest on the night.

Yep, naturally - it would be rather hard to plan a trip using nothing but sleepers for nights

Be sure to check and double check your connections and be sure to use the Working time table if you want a few extra minutes, especially sleepers as they have a fair amount of padding and can arrive into London 30 mins early the majority of the time.

It's also worth having a back up plan noted down, or at least know the frequencies on routes and alternative routes to take just in case it all goes wrong. I used my phone and had all sorts of maps, timetables and info saved which I could use to help me get out of sticky situations. Also, take paper copies with you in case you lose your phone/laptop etc. This also applies for directions to hostels/hotels, print off the reservations and directions on getting there, there is nothing worse than wondering around a new town looking for refuge when you are hungry/tired and it's piddling down with rain. Always plan for the worse to happen and be prepared for it.

I was quite lucky and didn't encounter any major delays but I did miss a couple of trains and had to replan an entire day, luckily I had my laptop on me, so just went to McDonalds and used their free Wi-Fi.

Good advice - I'd like to think I'd have done all this anyway, but thanks.

I managed to plan it so that I didn't have many cross-London transfers, mainly because I kept to the North of London and the South West. For the couple of transfers I did do, I just used Oyster.

I was rather doubtful that I would make it through the whole week and it was hard at times but I just kept going and made it through and had a fantastic time. You just have to spend time planning on what you want to do and check it all over and you'll be fine and I'm sure you'll have a great time.

Thanks!

1. Consider the areas you're going such as Scotland and Wales as you may find that these would be cheaper to do on an area specific rover than an ALR and allow you to really enjoy these over a 7 day period rather than 'rushing' it;

I don't think I'd spend the whole 7 days in just Scotland and/or Wales. I'll certainly be using a load of Intercity trains and I might spend time around other places/lines. Good advice, though, I'll be sure to have a look.

2. If you get lucky with Scotrail's website, you can pick up a sleeper berth (Bargain Berths) for as little as £19 so you don't have to worry about ticket validities;

That sounds pretty good, I'll try to look as soon as I know which days I can do.

3. The GBTT is probably the most useful document you can have with you after the ticket;

I'll probably buy a book copy of one of those, then - which publisher would you recommend, or none in particular?

4. Where there is a very frequent service to your next destination, it's often worth choosing a service 30 mins/1 hour later to allow for late running or food stops;
5. Mallaig - Armadale - Broadford - Kyle is a great run, but check the bus times as they change depending on schooldays (services 51 & 52 - there is a South Skye timetable on the Stagecoach website, but the service may be run by MacLeans coaches in the winter/spring. Also, Ardvassar is a max 5 min walk from Armadale ferry terminal).

Thanks, will bear these in mind!

Thanks all for the advice.

 

[Buttsy]

You should be able to find the GBTT in WH Smiths at stations or buy it online from The Stationery Office or Amazon.

Another factor is if you're intending to 'line bash' a bit as well, check out the PSUL website as a few moves you make may cover odd stretches of line, for example: Swansea & District, Landore Loop, Rose Street curve in Inverness, Springburn - Ashfield or Ashfield - Bishopbriggs, Stockport - Guide Bridge, etc.

 

[splashoutradio]

I'd highly recommend doing the cumbria loop. Lancaster - Millom - Carlisle - Hellifield - Lancaster.

It's a long journey, but has some fantastic views, very interesting places to stop along the way and takes in the famous Settle-Carlisle and Cumbrian Coast lines

----EDIT----

As Buttsy says, the GBTT will probably come in usefull. I use it all the time, especially when on rural lines without mobile signal - planning changes to the itinerary when trains are delayed, etc.

 

[philjo]

Yes, I recommend doing the Cumbrian Coast line if possible for the scenery.
Also try doing one of the East Coast services to either Aberdeen or Inverness.

THe National Rail timetable is also available as PDFs from the Network rail website - the version with everything in the same file can be a bit awkward to find the table you need but it is all in once place. you can also download the individual tables (e.g. table 65 for WCML etc) for ease of use which also open quicker. I put the ones I regularly need onto my ipad.

 

[Muzer]

Yep, I have that PDF. I don't fancy printing it all out there in the event that all my devices run out of batteries

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....1. Consider the areas you're going such as Scotland and Wales as you may find that these would be cheaper to do on an area specific rover than an ALR and allow you to really enjoy these over a 7 day period rather than 'rushing' it;....

I would definitely agree with this, Scotland, the north of England, the West Midlands and the West Country are well catered for with quite good value Rovers and Rangers. When I planned out a trip, that I now intend to do next year some time (over three weeks I think), the Freedom of Scotland 8 in 15 Rover (there is a 4 in 8 too) was much better value than the ALR.

....2. If you get lucky with Scotrail's website, you can pick up a sleeper berth (Bargain Berths) for as little as £19 so you don't have to worry about ticket validities;....

They are super tickets and well worth the price. If you are going to use the sleeper at any point look out for these, the supplements for an ALR (and other walk up tickets) start at £38 a time (for Adults).

........4. Where there is a very frequent service to your next destination, it's often worth choosing a service 30 mins/1 hour later to allow for late running or food stops;....

Definitely plan main food stops, when I went around the country over ten days I hadn't really accounted for this and so my eating pattern was very irregular.

 

[Hadders]

I did an ALR last year. A few points worth noting:

If you want to use the sleeper to get to Scotland on the first day on an ALR then it's worth bearing in mind that the lowland sleeper calls at Watford Junction at 0010 (not Sunday night/early hours of Monday morning though). Obviously you'll need to pay separately to get to WFJ.

On the last day of your ALR you could get the lowland sleeper from Glasgow (2340) or Edinburgh (2350) to max out validity. I did both of these without any hassle whatsoever last year.

I booked my sleeper berths several weeks beforehand to ensure availability. I paid for solo occupancy which is about £59 iirc. You might have to shop around to book berths without the ticket. Kings Cross told me it wasn't possible yet the EC booking office at Stevenage managed it no problem.

There is no point in purchasing the ALR in advance in case your plans change. I got mine a couple of days before and gave a list of seat reservations I wanted to the clerk at the station. It helps if you've got the details of what you want written down. I left my list of reservations with the clerk at the station and popped back later in the day to collect them rather than hold up the queue.

Skye circular - this is well worth doing (in fact I did it again last week when I had a few days off). Make sure you check the bus timetables carefully as they do tend to change, depending on the schools. The 51/52 Stagecoach service only runs during the summer. Last week I had to get a Citylink coach to Broadford where I had a 40 minute wait for the Macleans service to Armadale.

The Armadale-Mallaig ferry only runs twice a day during the winter months. I ended up with a 3 hours wait at Armadale last week in the pouring rain!

The train from Mallaig has a 13 minute connection into the sleeper at Fort William. There is no danger of missing the sleeper as the guard from the Mallaig train works the sleeper to Rannoch. You don't have to go all the way on the sleeper - I took the seats to Edinburgh where I;d booked a Travelodge for the night.

It's nice to do the Skye circular at any time of year but it's best done in June or July when it's light until around 11pm. That way you get to enjoy more of the scenery.

 

[Techniquest]

Before I give you my own advice, I noticed in one of the OP's replies that it would be hard to plan a 7 day ALR with just sleepers for the nights. Not strictly true, I did my first ever ALR on a 7 day version in Standard (also with railcard at the time) in summer 2011 - http://techniquest.railmiles.org/period-01aug11:07aug11/ for the journeys I made during that week, should give you an idea of the variety you can get in a week - and used the sleeper for most of the nights. I went Seated Sleeper to save money and got reservations for some nights and others were overnight moves around the country for variety and track/motive power purposes.

I had been due to do an overnight series of moves involving Gatwick Express on the Saturday night, however I got informed that there were riots in London (seriously didn't believe it until I saw it on the news the next day!) so ended up frantically finding accommodation in Darlington for a bargain £30 or so. Can't remember the name of the place now but it was quite good for the money, should be mentioned in my 2011 ALR trip report on the forum somewhere (http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=50325&highlight=Techniquest+2011+ALR - there we go, that'll give you an insight into what an ALR can be like)

Anyway, advice on ALR travels. A lot of stuff has already been covered, but let's see what comes to mind (I may come back to this thread with more advice as it comes to mind when bored at work!):

- Hotel accommodation can vary hugely in price but if you're willing to shop around a bit you can save a fortune. Take Central London Travelodges for example, they can be over £100 easily. However, if you look a few miles out of town, you can find quite a bargain. Did that last time I needed to stay in the London area, booked one in Tolworth for around £80 less than one in Central London. Same applies to other big cities, for instance Glossop Travelodge is usually far cheaper than Manchester city centre ones and it's super easy to get to from Glossop station and not difficult to get there from Manchester. Obviously this isn't just exclusive to Travelodge, Premier Inn will be the same sort of story, as will almost any hotel.

- Still on the hotel theme, it's always worth checking both Premier Inn and Travelodge websites, as sometimes you can get a hotel with the competition for a good few quid less and it's just up the road. Finally on the hotel theme, Travelodges do vary in quality across the country, so the Manchester Sportcity one is considerably different to the Birmingham Moor Street one for example.

- Food and drink is always something I forget to factor in on almost any trips for me, and even when I do budget for it I go well over it. Fast food and takeaway meals mount up in cost quickly, as do things like tea/coffee when out and about. So the advice is always to look around for supermarkets near stations (so you haven't got to spend too long away from your travels or get lost in a new town/city) to stock up on supplies. Buying big bottles of pop, a loaf of bread or a pack of rolls and some meat/other filling you enjoy, plus other bits like a multipack of chocolate bars and crisps will keep you going for a lot less than multiple fast food meals a day.

- Whilst on the supermarkets theme, if you enjoy your alcoholic beverages on a long trip, it's definitely a lot cheaper to buy a 4-pack of cans of your favourite beverage (or bottles on a multibuy offer) than it is to buy such things on the train/at the station. Granted, sometimes you can only get some beers on the train (like Arkells 3B, I've only found it on FGW buffet services. Asda used to sell it, but that didn't last long . If you like a good beer, it's well worth trying it) and I wouldn't suggest never using the buffet counter/trolley services, but don't use them for everything!

- Sticking with the food/drink theme for a moment, if you partake in regular tea/coffee during the day, then you'll end up with regular trips to places like Upper Crust and Pumpkin across the land. There are also Costa coffee shops on some stations, so my advice is to invest in a Bite card (http://www.bitecard.co.uk - it's free) which'll save you 20% on food and drink in Upper Crust, Pumpkin and other retail outlets on the railway, including Burger King. For Costa, they do a Costa Coffee Club card which you can use to build points on purchases to get free coffee when you've got enough. Well worth getting either of them in my experience as an avid coffee drinker

As for advice on routes or motive power to try, let's see:

- The Heart of Wales line is fascinating for scenery, and while it's usually only a 150/2 or 153, it's well worth the lengthy journey.
- The Newport to Shrewsbury line is well worth a trip along too for scenery, and you can get a 67 on the 1821 Cardiff Central to Holyhead, or the 0532 Holyhead to Cardiff Central. You can also bail at Hereford in either direction and pop into the Morrisons across the road from the station to stock up on supplies.
- Stourbridge Town branch has already been mentioned, but if you haven't done the Parry People Movers before it's worth the effort to get it done.
- Highland Main Line, West Highland Line (and onwards to Mallaig) and Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh line are all very much worth the journey for scenery. Plan to do the Highland Main Line on the 1200 London Kings Cross to Inverness 'Highland Chieftain' for the best way to do it on an HST. Do the West Highland on the 67-hauled Caledonian Sleeper from London Euston, then onwards to Mallaig on a 156. Inverness to Kyle is a 158 and has declassified First Class which is a nice bonus.

Without a doubt there's plenty more to suggest but you're doing Devon and Cornwall seperately anyway. If there's more I can think of, I'll come back

 

[Cletus]

Re hotels - Premier Inn have a lot of £29.00 rooms available all around the country to Easter and beyond.
(In London, there's a new one near East Croydon station I've used)