ALR question for you

[anti-pacer]

Hi folks

I'm planning another ALR, but want to start at Paddington on a Sunday night on the GWR Sleeper. Given this train leaves at 23:50 (I think), would the following be valid;

Purchasing a ticket from Paddington to Reading, and starting my ALR at Reading as it will then be past midnight so could start my ALR on the Monday.

Also, if I book a berth from Reading, will I be unable to use it from Paddington? I've not looked but I'm guessing they're the same price. What would be your advice in terms of alerting the on-board staff to this? If I can't occupy the berth straight away, would I have access to the lounge car (or at least the buffet to buy a beer) with a Standard Class ticket?

Whilst my ALR will be a First Class one, would I need to purchase a First Class ticket from Paddington to Reading in order to use the lounge at Paddington, or am I correct in assuming the lounge is available to all Sleeper passengers?

I am visiting a friend in London on the Sunday, travelling down by car with another friend, so don't want to waste a day on the ALR when all I'll need is my Oyster card.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may be able to provide.

 

[yorkie]

A first class ticket to Southall should suffice: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=STL&tkt=FDS £7.90

Book the sleeper cabin from Paddington if you want to occupy it there.

 

[anti-pacer]

A first class ticket to Southall should suffice: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=PAD&dest=STL&tkt=FDS £7.90

Book the sleeper cabin from Paddington if you want to occupy it there.

How does it work, given the train doesn't stop at Southall? I know there's some loophole but don't understand it.

 

[yorkie]

It's not a loophole! You don't need to pay twice for any part of your journey.

It's in the Conditions of Travel

If you are using a Season Ticket, daily Zonal Ticket, or another area based Ticket such as a concessionary pass, ranger or rover in conjunction with another Ticket and the last station at which one Ticket is valid and the first station that the other Ticket is valid are the same, then the train does not need to call at that station for your combination to be valid.

 

[anti-pacer]

Ah OK. Useful to know, thanks.

Would a Paddington-Southall ticket get me access to the lounge at Paddington?

 

[221129]

Ah OK. Useful to know, thanks.

Would a Paddington-Southall ticket get me access to the lounge at Paddington?

No but the sleeper supplement will.

 

[anti-pacer]

No but the sleeper supplement will.

Ah excellent, thanks for letting me know.

With the "Condition of Carriage" section that Yorkie quoted, would this allow me to bypass the arriving/departing London before 10am rule on EMT, VT and VTEC? So for example, purchasing a ticket from Finsbury Park to King's Cross, or South Hampstead to Euston?

 

[yorkie]

Would a Paddington-Southall ticket get me access to the lounge at Paddington?

Yes it would.

 

[yorkie]

Ah excellent, thanks for letting me know.

With the "Condition of Carriage" section that Yorkie quoted, would this allow me to bypass the arriving/departing London before 10am rule on EMT, VT and VTEC? So for example, purchasing a ticket from Finsbury Park to King's Cross, or South Hampstead to Euston?

See: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38994
and http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1546196#post1546196

Note that some conditions may have changed since then; notably the Conditions of Carriage were abolished last year and replaced with the Conditions of Travel.

 

[anti-pacer]

See: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38994
and http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1546196#post1546196

Note that some conditions may have changed since then; notably the Conditions of Carriage were abolished last year and replaced with the Conditions of Travel.

So after trawling through all 14 pages of that link, I'm no further forward.

Yes I understand it is allowed to split tickets to include stations where the train doesn't stop, BUT, in reality, 6-7 years on has anyone on here done this, and were any questions asked?

The Birmingham issue is neither here nor there. Should I find the need to arrive and alight there before 10am, I'll take my chances.

 

[yorkie]

Yes I understand it is allowed to split tickets to include stations where the train doesn't stop, BUT, in reality, 6-7 years on has anyone on here done this, and were any questions asked?

1) Yes, many people have used, and continue to use, a combination of tickets under Condition 14.2. Some people do so daily.
2) Occasionally questions may be asked.

The Birmingham issue is neither here nor there. Should I find the need to arrive and alight there before 10am, I'll take my chances.

That's fine, but you did ask! (for what it's worth, my view remains unchanged from what it was when I contributed to those threads)

 

[robbeech]

what are you trying to achieve with the Finsbury Park thing?

If you are on a GN service then the restriction does not apply. If you plan on using a VTEC service through from the North and having a Finsbury Park to London Terminals ticket is there to get you through the barrier then I would suggest caution.

As VTEC services ( and not many of them) only call at Stevenage before King's Cross and Stevenage is also on the list of restricted stations then it could be argued that you are considered 'overcarried' after Peterborough and no longer hold a valid ticket. Swapping to a GN service at Peterborough would be the sensible thing to do.

 

[yorkie]

what are you trying to achieve with the Finsbury Park thing?

to achieve a valid combination!

but there is an argument that, if you also have a ticket from Finsbury Park to Kings Cross - then you can combine the two tickets without the train stopping.

The ALR is valid until Finsbury Park, and then you switch onto your other ticket for arrival into Kings Cross...

As far as I can see Condition 19 is straightforward, buy a single from KGX to Finsbury Park and continue northwards using an ALR without having to get off the train and you are within the NRCoC....

This is a very important message from ATOC passed on to me from a very well connected person about the suggested use of splitting the ALR with a one stop ticket and is posted here with his permission, please... everybody take heed of it and DO NOT try to use that trick to get round the restrictions:

It is counted under the National Conditions and this IS allowed. The problem is that ATOC have told me that if people do this then the only step left will be a total time restriction of, say, 1000 and that will kill it.

ATOC is aware of the Forum and are anxious as they don't want the rover killed off but are under pressure from some TOCs to prevent abuse - even if the 'abuse' is in fact legitimate.

So, there it is in black and white from ATOC. They are watching this forum and if people do try the splitting thing with the ALR then at the next fares revision there will very likely be a blanket 10.00 restriction on it on weekdays.

And I would imagine that challenging the partial 10.00 restriction rule might well have the same result.

(it's now NRCoT 14.2)

 

[221129]

As VTEC services ( and not many of them) only call at Stevenage before King's Cross and Stevenage is also on the list of restricted stations then it could be argued that you are considered 'overcarried' after Peterborough and no longer hold a valid ticket.

No it couldn't.

 

[yorkie]

No it couldn't.

I agree, it couldn't, because the train does not need to call at the station where you change from one ticket to the other.

ATOC have been aware of this legitimate way to cheaply make the ALR valid at peak times for 7 years; if they really wanted to stop people doing it they could have changed the restriction to the more conventional "Not valid on trains timed to arrive at London Terminals or Birmingham Stations before 10:00"

The objective was for ATOC to put off business passengers from buying ALRs. They achieved that! The TOCs are probably not bothered if a few people 'in the know' do this; as long as the business passengers don't use it, they're happy!