Alstom Aventra query: Which were built before the Alstom takeover?

[507021]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me which of the 701s and 720s were built by Bombardier before the Alstom takeover, please?

Also, would I be right in assuming the 730s will all be Alstom Aventras?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Elshad]

I suspect they will still be known as Bombardier Aventras for a long time to come, the same way people kept referring to Eurocopter long after they became Airbus Helicopters.

 

[43096]

I suspect they will still be known as Bombardier Aventras for a long time to come, the same way people kept referring to Eurocopter long after they became Airbus Helicopters.

I'm not sure that actually answers the question?

Going back to the question, it rather depends on how and when you date a particular unit; is it:
- when it is ordered?
- when assembly starts?
- when assembly is finished?
- when it is dispatched from the factory?
- when it is delivered to the customer (thinking of those units sent to Worksop or Old Dalby or wherever)?
- when it is accepted for service (i.e. handed over to the owning ROSCO)?

I'm not sure there's a simple answer to it!

 

[Wyrleybart]

It has literally been this last week that the maintenance engineers located in our TOC Control have had to change their email addresses from Bombardier to Alstom.

Make of that what you will but 730002 has been active for a couple of months now and I believe a 730/1 has also been seen. I don't think it would be possible to call out a definitive break between production of by Bombardier and Alstom.

 

[Domh245]

I'd just go off what's printed on their axles!

 

[Energy]

I think it depends on whoevers brand is put on it at the time of order, for example you buy an iPhone from Amazon, you didn't buy it from Apple and Apple didn't make it, Foxconn did.

 

[jh64]

The most relevant prior example is probably Vossloh becoming Stadler during the production of Class 68s and 88s.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The corporate and legal branding will change first (if it hasn't already).
The marketing will follow in due course, probably faster on retained product lines than those up for closure/divestment.
Aventra is a UK-specific brand, so might take longer than if the brand was common across Europe.
As far as I can tell, Alstom is continuing to use its branding prior to the takeover, but once/if that changes that will be the branding on all products.
You have to look a good way down their web site to find the first "ex-Bombardier" item, for the Mumbai Metro.
About Alstom

 

[507021]

Thanks to all for your interesting answers, much appreciated.

Taking these on board, would it be fair to refer to the classes/subclasses already in build before the takeover (701, 720/5) as Bombardier Aventras, with those beginning construction after the takeover (720/6, 730) as Alstom Aventras?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

For what it's worth, the GA class 720 fleet owner (Angel Trains) still refers to them as of Bombardier manufacture on their web site.

 

[507021]

For what it's worth, the GA class 720 fleet owner (Angel Trains) still refers to them as of Bombardier manufacture on their web site.

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The answer is probably to look at the works plates on individual units, if anyone is in a position to do that. I wouldn't reply on axles, electrical boxes or other components, which would have been made some time before the unit was completed.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Thanks to all for your interesting answers, much appreciated.

Taking these on board, would it be fair to refer to the classes/subclasses already in build before the takeover (701, 720/5) as Bombardier Aventras, with those beginning construction after the takeover (720/6, 730) as Alstom Aventras?

With the utmost of respect, I think you are suffering from brandness, and it is not an easily definable line to draw. Bombardier spent an absolute heap of money developing a single aisle commercial jetliner. They basically ran out of money so Airbus bought into it and you will now see that the former Bombardier C series is branded as the A220 or A221.

This webpage gives you the production list of the aeroplane and you can see how the orders migrated from one brand to the other. Not sure the rail vehicle production could be so defined.

https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html

HTH

 

[Wolfie]

For what it's worth, the GA class 720 fleet owner (Angel Trains) still refers to them as of Bombardier manufacture on their web site.

That's who the contract was signed with.

How many people delve into or even care about which name plate was over the factory door when various Electrostar models were produced.

 

[507021]

With the utmost of respect, I think you are suffering from brandness, and it is not an easily definable line to draw. Bombardier spent an absolute heap of money developing a single aisle commercial jetliner. They basically ran out of money so Airbus bought into it and you will now see that the former Bombardier C series is branded as the A220 or A221.

This webpage gives you the production list of the aeroplane and you can see how the orders migrated from one brand to the other. Not sure the rail vehicle production could be so defined.

https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html

HTH

I can appreciate it wasn't exactly an easy question, I was asking out of interest more than anything else.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

For what it's worth, the GA class 720 fleet owner (Angel Trains) still refers to them as of Bombardier manufacture on their web site.

And by contrast, Roger Ford refers to them as Alstom Aventras in his monthly update on new train reliability (Modern Railways, May).
All other references throughout the magazine are to Alstom, including TfL, Arriva, SWR, c2c and GA versions.
Following the takeover Alstom is apparently reviewing the delivery schedule for all of these fleets.

 

[D365]

It has literally been this last week that the maintenance engineers located in our TOC Control have had to change their email addresses from Bombardier to Alstom.

OT but I've heard that changing the email domain is the least of the problems always seems to be the way with company acquisitions!

The most relevant prior example is probably Vossloh becoming Stadler during the production of Class 68s and 88s.

The Class 68/88 and Class 399 are all now referred to as Stadler products, although those fleets are obviously far less numerous.

 

[Worm]

With the utmost of respect, I think you are suffering from brandness, and it is not an easily definable line to draw. Bombardier spent an absolute heap of money developing a single aisle commercial jetliner. They basically ran out of money so Airbus bought into it and you will now see that the former Bombardier C series is branded as the A220 or A221.

This webpage gives you the production list of the aeroplane and you can see how the orders migrated from one brand to the other. Not sure the rail vehicle production could be so defined.

https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html

HTH

After the merger of McDonnell Douglas and Boeing the only two products which were rebranded were the MD-95 as the Boeing 717 and the C-17.

The MD-11 line stayed as MDD until the end of production in 2001.

So there is precedent for both in aviation at least.

 

[507 001]

It’ll be interesting to see what’s on the builders plates for the next few M5000s being delivered to Metrolink. 3125 was delivered yesterday.