Alternatives to "Not Gatwick Express" tickets to/from Gatwick Airport to/from "London Terminals"

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by MPotter, 24 Apr 2019.

  1. MPotter

    MPotter On Moderation

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    I would like to know if there are any alternatives to purchasing a "Not Gatwick Express" ticket to/from "London Terminals" apart from an "Any Permitted" ticket which costs an arm and a leg. My plan is to travel on a GTR service other than a Gatwick Express service. I don't want to use London Bridge, although I am aware that it is a London Terminal station.
     
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  3. TFN

    TFN Member

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    There's the London Thameslink option which gives access to St Pancras International, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars, London Bridge and Elephant & Castle stations. Doesn't help if you want Victoria or Waterloo etc but the London Thameslink ticket is quite useful
     
  4. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Would Oyster card or contactless be an option? Is it a one off journey you are making?
     
  5. Iggy12a

    Iggy12a Member

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    If you do want to purchase a ticket, then splitting at East Croydon gives a good saving.
    Gatwick to East Croydon is £5.40 single.
    East Croydon to London Terminals is £6.60 or East Croydon to Victoria is £6.30.
     
  6. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    How does Oyster know if you use the Gatwick Express or not ?
     
  7. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    It knows you used the oyster readers at the Gatwick Express platforms at Victoria and charges more.
     
  8. andrewkeith5

    andrewkeith5 Member

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    Well, being pedantic it charges you the Gatwick Express fare then refunds you if you go through a gate line other than 13/14 at Victoria....

    It would be good to know why you feel the need to ask, OP. The Not Gatwick Express ticket is the ticket you want if you want to use the Southern service to Victoria?

    The only other option is to use London Thameslink or Not Underground routed tickets to the Thameslink stations as has been mentioned.
     
  9. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    Being pedantic, doesn't that depend on which way you're going?
     
  10. MPotter

    MPotter On Moderation

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    An Oyster card would be an option but I want to check if a paper ticket would be a better option first.
    It is a one off journey but a return one.
     
  11. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I believe the OP is going from Victoria to Gatwick Airport, so they would be touching in on platform 13 and 14, rather than out.

    Edit: Actually they said to and from. So to Victoria you are correct.

    From Victoria if they were to be charged the Any permitted, they would get that as soon as they touched in I believe.
     
  12. MPotter

    MPotter On Moderation

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    I'm actually suggesting a return journey from Victoria to Gatwick Airport.
     
  13. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    I'm afraid I can't agree with this statement. At Gatwick Airport you are charged the standard fare to Victoria (£15.10/£8.30). If you touch out at platforms 13/14 the charge will be increased to £19.80. Only Victoria P13/14 gates charge £19.80 on entry.
    If you use Oyster or contactless and don't use the P13/14 gates then you'll be charged £8.30 each way off-peak or £15.10 peak. If things are working normally you won't be able to use Gatwick Express without using the P13/14 gates. Two off-peak Oyster singles are 20p cheaper than the off-peak day return. If you travel at peak times then a paper ticket may well be cheaper.
     
  14. MPotter

    MPotter On Moderation

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    I have found one: a Stratford International to Gatwick Airport return ticket at £16.50 (with a railcard discount). It is "Any Permitted" so is valid on the underground to Victoria and onboard the Gatwick Express.
     
  15. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    Well if you get your railcard added to the Oyster card then the normal off-peak fare from Victoria to Gatwick reduces to £5.50 each way.
     
  16. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    How does a PAYG Oyster know if you travel first class ?
     
  17. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    It doesn't. Oyster and contactless are standard class only and are not valid in first class.
     
  18. Tunnel Bore

    Tunnel Bore Member

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    I've wonder about this: the occasional Gat Ex is routed into platforms 15-19 (and balancing service departs from there of course). Is this just written off as foregone income by GTR? If it wasn't planned but for operational convenience on the day, does Nr have to compensation for lost income.

    While I'm here: just how daft is the ticket check on Gat Ex in standard class? Anyone without a ticket (perhaps starting from un un-gated station south of Gatwick) only has to say that they used a contactless bank card. Is it only about catching those with "Not Gat Ex", "Thameslink-only" tickets? But they won't be able to get through the gates at 13/14.
     
  19. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    With the extension of oyster further out into more distant territory is a first class oyster on the cards or are those willing to pay a premium for first class travel going to be denied the convenience?
     
  20. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    The revenue protection person will have a reader. Whilst you can just offer a contactless card and they will accept it as valid for travel, someone who hasn't touched in will find a penalty fare deducted from their account when they next check their bank statement.

    With contactless the work of the revenue protection person is just to ensure that the contactless card is compliant. The back office system checks the validity of the payment for the journey.
     
  21. JonathanH

    JonathanH Established Member

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    They might just remove first class.
     
  22. paddington

    paddington Member

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    No, they will find a maximum fare charged.

    Someone like ForTheLoveOf may be able to elaborate on how it is not appropriate to charge a penalty fare in this way.
     
  23. maniacmartin

    maniacmartin Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    If you're travelling from Anglia, I'd advise changing at Stratford for the Jubilee line to London Bridge. It's likely to be faster than going via Victoria
     
  24. MPotter

    MPotter On Moderation

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    What if I'm travelling via Cambridge?
     
  25. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    If the revenue from providing First Class makes if financially viable then why not install a first class supplement card reader in or at the entrance to first class areas?
     
  26. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    There are numerous reasons why a Penalty Fare might not be appropriate; that being said, I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with charging a Penalty Fare through the initial inspection reader tap. What would need to be done is to do it in the same way that it works for Oyster, but I doubt this is coming any time soon because it requires a lot more collaboration with the scheme issuers (Visa, Mastercard etc.) and the banks/lenders.

    It probably isn't practicable to develop a solution in the short term, and the blocking of cards after three non-touch ins is probably about the best alternative arrangement they can hope for.
     
  27. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    Choosing to upgrade to first class after boarding a train on the Brighton line? Nobody would do that because passengers can then the first class. Nick your own antimacassar and put it on the seat if you want the experience.

    First class only exists on Southern and Gatwick Express for season ticket holders. Nobody who's paid for it once would ever do so again unless they're really daft. Oyster being standard class only is a complete irrelevance on this route.
     
  28. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    I travelled first class to Balcombe on Saturday - had more space and a table
     
  29. mmh

    mmh Established Member

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    I had a feeling you were trolling, now I'm pretty certain you are.
     
  30. Mutant Lemming

    Mutant Lemming Established Member

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    Kind of depends on your definition of it - I travelled first from St.Pancras to Balcombe last Saturday (with a valid ticket). I could have used a PAYG oystercard for the St.P to Gatwick section and that is what started me wondering about using a PAYG Oystercard and travelling first. Youre comment "Oyster being standard class only is a complete irrelevance on this route" is not really the case when you factor in Thameslink.
    Still anyhow if in doubt just call someone a troll - have been called worse as I have no doubt you have.
     

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