Anarchy in Calais

[Johnuk123]

It doesn't stop it being madness. The fact that they are actually considering doing that (at great cost to the economy) rather than actually sorting out the people at the other end says a lot about the priorities of those involved.

You may say it's madness, others would disagree.
As the tunnel is not in any way secure against terrorism and infiltration closing for a short period to make it as impregnable as possible is a good idea.

 

[jon0844]

Close it for good then. And stop the ferries too. Close ALL the borders.

Besides our home grown terrorists in the making, we'd surely be safe then?

 

[TheKnightWho]

You may say it's madness, others would disagree.
As the tunnel is not in any way secure against terrorism and infiltration closing for a short period to make it as impregnable as possible is a good idea.

Are these migrants terrorists now? If not - why has that suddenly become a prescient issue?

It would also be far, far cheaper to placate the handful of migrants (and yes, a couple of thousand is a handful compared to anywhere else) than spend millions "making it as impregnable as possible".

I'm usually loathe to quote things such as this, but a quote from Benjamin Franklin has been in my mind for most of this debacle: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Take note.
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Close it for good then. And stop the ferries too. Close ALL the borders.

Besides our home grown terrorists in the making, we'd surely be safe then?

That wouldn't be good enough! We've already got foreigners within our ranks - they might be terrorists! Better deport them too - along with anyone who looks like a migrant, just to keep certain individuals happy.

 

[Johnuk123]

Are these migrants terrorists now? If not - why has that suddenly become a prescient issue?

It would also be far, far cheaper to placate the handful of migrants (and yes, a couple of thousand is a handful compared to anywhere else) than spend millions "making it as impregnable as possible".

I'm usually loathe to quote things such as this, but a quote from Benjamin Franklin has been in my mind for most of this debacle: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Take note.
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That wouldn't be good enough! We've already got foreigners within our ranks - they might be terrorists! Better deport them too - along with anyone who looks like a migrant, just to keep certain individuals happy.

Blimey even by your standards to seriously suggest that a terrorist wouldn't attempt to get into the UK disguised as a migrant is quite baffling.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/197757#.VcSBkJvbJaR

ISIS members could infiltrate Europe together with masses of refugees from Libya, Syria, and Iraq, a top EU official said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...migrant-chaos-to-slip-jihadists-in-to-UK.html

Isil might exploit the illegal immigrant crisis at Calais to try and slip jihadists back in to the UK, it is feared.
Returning fanatics may try and hide among the thousands of refugees who have massed at the port to sneak on to lorries and cars heading across the Channel, raising security fears here.

Terror suspects and Isil extremists have already used illegal immigrants as cover to slip in to Europe and the growing chaos at Calais could provide an opportunity to get in to Britain undetected.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, stressed police were not aware of any examples so far but accepted “It is a concern, it is possible.”

British jihadists wanting to return home need to slip back under the radar of the police and security services to avoid arrest when they arrive.

Some have even hid among illegal migrants to get out of the UK undetected so they can get to Syria in the first place.

If you're also suggesting an amnesty for the thousands at Calais by your use of the word "placate" that is once again ridiculous as that would send the message worldwide that if you get to Calais you get here. utter barmy.
Do you think once those at Calais had been let in that no more would turn up ?

 

[meridian2]

That wouldn't be good enough! We've already got foreigners within our ranks - they might be terrorists! Better deport them too - along with anyone who looks like a migrant, just to keep certain individuals happy.

Still twisting around what people say just to self-ingratiate your own arguments?. Maybe we should throw you down amongst these migrants in Calais and then see how you like it, but that would require you to come out of your Oxbridge bubble into the real world. Tall order.:roll:

 

[TheKnightWho]

Blimey even by your standards to seriously suggest that a terrorist wouldn't attempt to get into the UK disguised as a migrant is quite baffling.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/197757#.VcSBkJvbJaR



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...migrant-chaos-to-slip-jihadists-in-to-UK.html




If you're also suggesting an amnesty for the thousands at Calais by your use of the word "placate" that is once again ridiculous as that would send the message worldwide that if you get to Calais you get here. utter barmy.
Do you think once those at Calais had been let in that no more would turn up ?

So you are suggesting some of them are terrorists. I think we're beginning to reach peak xenophobia here.

Did you actually read that quote? Or are you too caught up with your terror of the migrants to notice? If you hadn't already read what anyone else had written, you'd notice that other countries have taken many times what Britain already has. To suggest that we're advertising a "soft touch" or whatever is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I'm starting to be embarrassed to be of the same nationality as others who genuinely think these things.
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Still twisting around what people say just to self-ingratiate your own arguments?. Maybe we should throw you down amongst these migrants in Calais and then see how you like it, but that would require you to come out of your Oxbridge bubble into the real world. Tall order.:roll:

Once again, you're assuming loads of things about me - pretty hilarious when that's what you're accusing me of doing. Self-awareness isn't your forte, is it. You know nothing about me, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped making things up in a desperate attempt to dismiss everything I say without actually thinking about it. I have had far more contact with people in these sorts of situations than I expect you ever will - funnily enough, I'm not crying about it.

And the fact that you're not accusing Johnuk123 of the same thing says quite a lot - but there we go. The intellectual bankruptcy some are using here to justify their xenophobia and terror of migrants would be funny it it wasn't so serious. And that's what it is: terror. Exactly what real terrorists actually wanted.

 

[Johnuk123]

So you are suggesting some of them are terrorists. I think we're beginning to reach peak xenophobia here.

Did you actually read that quote? Or are you too caught up with your terror of the migrants to notice? If you hadn't already read what anyone else had written, you'd notice that other countries have taken many times what Britain already has. To suggest that we're advertising a "soft touch" or whatever is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I'm starting to be embarrassed to be of the same nationality as others who genuinely think these things.

I'm certainly suggesting that some may well be terrorists either presently or in the future. As the head of the Met thinks the same perhaps you should write to him to tell him he's got it all wrong.

Strange how you accuse another poster of assuming things about you when you assume something about me.

Carry on being embarrassed if it makes you feel better.

As for accusing posters of being intellectual bankrupts I'm sure from your position looking down on us we certainly are.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I'm certainly suggesting that some may well be terrorists either presently or in the future. As the head of the Met thinks the same perhaps you should write to him to tell him he's got it all wrong.

Carry on being embarrassed if it makes you feel better.

What is the aim of terrorists, in your opinion? Genuine question.

 

[Johnuk123]

What is the aim of terrorists, in your opinion? Genuine question.

Oh! is it to cause terror ?

I have spent many many years dealing with, talking to and writing countless and varied reports on terrorists from the IRA through to the present day Islamists what is your knowledge and dealings with them amount to ?

 

[Antman]

So you are suggesting some of them are terrorists. I think we're beginning to reach peak xenophobia here.

Did you actually read that quote? Or are you too caught up with your terror of the migrants to notice? If you hadn't already read what anyone else had written, you'd notice that other countries have taken many times what Britain already has. To suggest that we're advertising a "soft touch" or whatever is utterly ridiculous.

Frankly, I'm starting to be embarrassed to be of the same nationality as others who genuinely think these things.
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Once again, you're assuming loads of things about me - pretty hilarious when that's what you're accusing me of doing. Self-awareness isn't your forte, is it. You know nothing about me, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped making things up in a desperate attempt to dismiss everything I say without actually thinking about it. I have had far more contact with people in these sorts of situations than I expect you ever will - funnily enough, I'm not crying about it.

And the fact that you're not accusing Johnuk123 of the same thing says quite a lot - but there we go. The intellectual bankruptcy some are using here to justify their xenophobia and terror of migrants would be funny it it wasn't so serious. And that's what it is: terror. Exactly what real terrorists actually wanted.

Well obviously you don't know that they are not terrorists and if somebody did want to get into the country for such reasons what an ideal opportunity the situation in Calais offers.

The soft touch has more to do with illegal immigrants being housed in hotels whilst people born here are sleeping rough on the streets.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Well obviously you don't know that they are not terrorists and if somebody did want to get into the country for such reasons what an ideal opportunity the situation in Calais offers.

The soft touch has more to do with illegal immigrants being housed in hotels whilst people born here are sleeping rough on the streets.

We don't know they're not terrorists now? Since when have we presumed guilt? Are we going to start prosecuting people for thinking the wrong thing? I thought we were supposed to be proud of English law, which is categorically not based on the idea of "we don't know they're not..."

We're also not a refugee magnet by any stretch. Sweden - a country even further from the Med, takes 3 times as many refugees as us. Then, couldn't we consider that the people fleeing here may have some sort of connection? Or may have decent levels of English, making them somewhat valuable?

Those heading for Britain are a minuscule proportion of the world’s refugee population. Disproportionately, they tend to be educated; with a grasp of English that they believe will make it easier to settle down and get in work than in a country where they don’t speak the native tongue; often a cultural link with Britain, because it used to be a former colonial power; or they have friends, family, or a settled community in the UK. There are those who, in effect, believe the entire world’s refugee population should be settled in substantially poor countries which are already overwhelmed. There is a debate to be had about how to solve a growing global refugee crisis, sure. But to do it properly, we need to at least have the facts right – and stop indulging the myth that Britain is the global magnet of refugees – it isn’t.

I understand the concerns about them being housed in hotels - but it's the current government who has decided to cut funding for the homeless etc. It's perfectly possible to do both, but they're deciding not to. Don't blame the left for that one - I would gladly see funding for the homeless here increased and see people housed.
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Oh! is it to cause terror ?

I have spent many many years dealing with, talking to and writing countless and varied reports on terrorists from the IRA through to the present day Islamists what is your knowledge and dealings with them amount to ?

Well done! And what do you think you're spreading with all of this xenophobia and hatred of the horrible migrants? Speaking about potential terror attacks, and how they're pricing out good, British workers etc.? Might it be terror?

Once again, I'll draw attention to that little nugget I mentioned earlier: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” I notice you haven't taken note. It's not just meant to be something that rolls off the tongue well.

I've already mentioned that I have had plenty of contact with people in these sorts of situations. Do you think I'm suddenly ignorant of terrorism now? But please, use your experience to begin shutting down borders because of nebulous security threats. Something I thought we saw the back of with the downfall of the USSR.

 

[Antman]

We don't know they're not terrorists now? Since when have we presumed guilt? Are we going to start prosecuting people for thinking the wrong thing? I thought we were supposed to be proud of English law, which is categorically not based on the idea of "we don't know they're not..."

We're also not a refugee magnet by any stretch. Sweden - a country even further from the Med, takes 3 times as many refugees as us. Then, couldn't we consider that the people fleeing here may have some sort of connection? Or may have decent levels of English, making them somewhat valuable?



I understand the concerns about them being housed in hotels - but it's the current government who has decided to cut funding for the homeless etc. It's perfectly possible to do both, but they're deciding not to. Don't blame the left for that one - I would gladly see funding for the homeless here increased and see people housed.
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Well done! And what do you think you're spreading with all of this xenophobia and hatred of the horrible migrants? Speaking about potential terror attacks, and how they're pricing out good, British workers etc.? Might it be terror?

Once again, I'll draw attention to that little nugget I mentioned earlier: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” I notice you haven't taken note. It's not just meant to be something that rolls off the tongue well.

I've already mentioned that I have had plenty of contact with people in these sorts of situations. Do you think I'm suddenly ignorant of terrorism now? But please, use your experience to begin shutting down borders because of nebulous security threats. Something I thought we saw the back of with the downfall of the USSR.

It's not a case of assuming guilt it's about not taking chances.

It is also quite pointless to keep saying how many refugees other countries have taken:roll:

 

[TheKnightWho]

It's not a case of assuming guilt it's about not taking chances.

It is also quite pointless to keep saying how many refugees other countries have taken:roll:

That is still assuming guilt. Should we lock up everyone now? Just in case they might commit a crime. Not taking chances! I haven't heard something this Orwellian in a while...

How is it pointless? Do you mean in terms of size? Sweden doesn't have that much of its area that's actually liveble and/or contains houses. It's not pointless at all.

We can't ignore our involvement in the Middle East that led to these migrants fleeing in the first place - we have to assume responsibility for that (responsibility is something I thought this Conservative government was very keen on). Sweden (and certain other European countries) were far less involved than us, and yet are doing their fair share. We cannot simply sit in selfish isolation and expect ourselves to be taken seriously on the world stage.

 

[Johnuk123]

I've already mentioned that I have had plenty of contact with people in these sorts of situations. Do you think I'm suddenly ignorant of terrorism now?

Which terrorists in particular have you had plenty of contact with ?
I'd love to know.

I try my hardest not resorting to your level of abuse (ie calling posters intellectually bankrupt) but it's getting difficult although I will attempt at self regulation.

 

[Greenback]

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