Announcing the presence of Revenue Protection

[ChewChewTrain]

I was pleased that Revenue Protection were on a GWR express out of London Paddington this afternoon. I haven’t noticed them on one of my trains for quite a while (though I may have overlooked their presence at some point).

I was less pleased that the Train Manager announced that they were on the train about a minute before the doors locked at Paddington. What possible legitimate purpose does that serve? Please
tell me it’s not some new policy!

I wonder what the Revenue Protection guy himself thought. He didn’t seem to encounter anyone without a ticket before he got to me, but then that’s not altogether surprising.

 

[zwk500]

I was pleased that Revenue Protection were on a GWR express out of London Paddington this afternoon. I haven’t noticed them on one of my trains for quite a while (though I may have overlooked their presence at some point).

I was less pleased that the Train Manager announced that they were on the train about a minute before the doors locked at Paddington. What possible legitimate purpose does that serve? Please
tell me it’s not some new policy!

I wonder what the Revenue Protection guy himself thought. He didn’t seem to encounter anyone without a ticket before he got to me, but then that’s not altogether surprising.

Presumably the quite legitimate purpose of giving people without a ticket a chance to get off, buy the proper one, and then catch a later train? After all, I'd rather the railway was fair to passengers than looking after RPI's commission.

 

[ChewChewTrain]

Presumably the quite legitimate purpose of giving people without a ticket a chance to get off, buy the proper one, and then catch a later train? After all, I'd rather the railway was fair to passengers than looking after RPI's commission.

Great! Why not just go the whole hog and publish an online list of services that RP will be on?

 

[kristiang85]

Presumably the quite legitimate purpose of giving people without a ticket a chance to get off, buy the proper one, and then catch a later train? After all, I'd rather the railway was fair to passengers than looking after RPI's commission.

Totally this. Many people still believe it is possible to buy a ticket on a train, and it's a helpful reminder this is needed. Plus a plethora of other reasons a passenger may innocently not have the right ticket (eg warnings before a train leaves about validity). I would like to think the railway is there as a way of getting people from A to B in a friendly and helpful way, and not going out of its way to catch people out.

 

[LowLevel]

Some revenue protection bods I work with ask me to do a spiel about penalty fares etc without specifically mentioning their presence before they go down the train, usually having already stationed someone to watch the bogs. It works quite well.

 

[busestrains]

A while ago i was on a South West Trains service and the Guard repeatedly announced between Clapham Junction and London Waterloo that there were a large group of revenue inspectors working on the ticket barriers at London Waterloo dishing out penalty fares and prosecutions and that anyone without a ticket should come buy one from him. He told everyone what carriage to find him on the train and that they should come and that anyone without a ticket should come and buy a ticket from him. Quite a few passengers went to buy tickets from him when he said that. When i alighted there was indeed a group of inspectors by the barriers. Personally i like it when they warn passengers and help them avoid getting a penalty fare or being prosecuted. If a passenger finds out about the inspectors and ends up buying a ticket then they have paid and surely this is much better than them getting a penalty fare or getting prosecuted.

 

[Llanigraham]

Great! Why not just go the whole hog and publish an online list of services that RP will be on?

If it reduces fare evasion, why not?
After all, most Police Forces now announce where their speed cameras are going to be.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Presumably the quite legitimate purpose of giving people without a ticket a chance to get off, buy the proper one, and then catch a later train? After all, I'd rather the railway was fair to passengers than looking after RPI's commission.

100% this

 

[zwk500]

Great! Why not just go the whole hog and publish an online list of services that RP will be on?

That's a very different situation to announcing that a specific service happens to have an RPI on. Unless somebody is conducting quite extensive intelligence the knowledge that 1 train happens to have an RPI onboard at 1 time is not going to assist fare evaders. Whereas a list of which did (and therefore which didn't) would allow intentional fare evasion.

 

[Typhoon]

Some revenue protection bods I work with ask me to do a spiel about penalty fares etc without specifically mentioning their presence before they go down the train, usually having already stationed someone to watch the bogs. It works quite well.

Just for clarification - the spiel would include any restriction 'You must have a ticket which has Valid on Anglo-Welsh Trains printed on it' or whatever?

 

[Sleepy]

Presumably the quite legitimate purpose of giving people without a ticket a chance to get off, buy the proper one, and then catch a later train? After all, I'd rather the railway was fair to passengers than looking after RPI's commission.

RPI doesn't get any commission.

 

[zwk500]

RPI doesn't get any commission.

Either way, allowing a passenger to quietly slip off and buy the correct ticket rather than have an uncomfortable encounter with an RPI is the more customer-friendly approach.

 

[LowLevel]

Just for clarification - the spiel would include any restriction 'You must have a ticket which has Valid on Anglo-Welsh Trains printed on it' or whatever?

No. Not least because that doesn't generally have any relevance on the penalty fare routes I work, they're either single operator or without single operator tickets, with one exception.

Usually something short and sweet along the lines of "penalty fares are in operation on this route. If you've boarded the train without buying a ticket if facilities are available, or with a ticket that is invalid, a penalty fare may be charged by revenue protection staff".

 

[station_road]

Presumably the quite legitimate purpose of giving people without a ticket a chance to get off, buy the proper one, and then catch a later train? After all, I'd rather the railway was fair to passengers than looking after RPI's commission.

The chance for people who were hoping to get away without the correct ticket (a criminal offence) to avoid needing to pay and get another train instead? That doesn't sound very fair to the passengers who have bothered to follow the rules

 

[zwk500]

The chance for people who were hoping to get away without the correct ticket (a criminal offence) to avoid needing to pay and get another train instead? That doesn't sound very fair to the passengers who have bothered to follow the rules

They've not yet blocked a seat or avoided a fare until the train departs. Having been nearly caught out once, most people wouldn't try and chance it a second time.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Id have thought the warning is more so they can say "we told you so" if anyone does stay on and try to give an excuse or sob story.

 

[alastair]

I was pleased that Revenue Protection were on a GWR express out of London Paddington this afternoon. I haven’t noticed them on one of my trains for quite a while (though I may have overlooked their presence at some point).

I was less pleased that the Train Manager announced that they were on the train about a minute before the doors locked at Paddington. What possible legitimate purpose does that serve? Please
tell me it’s not some new policy!

I wonder what the Revenue Protection guy himself thought. He didn’t seem to encounter anyone without a ticket before he got to me, but then that’s not altogether surprising.

What exactly is your point? What is it about this that you object to?

Ticket examination on GWR where I live ( Totnes, Devon) is pretty consistent on the whole. On local services such as Okehampton, Gunnislake etc. pretty much 100%. Using a long-distance service from say Plymouth to Totnes I have been checked maybe 3 out of 5 trips. Certainly sufficient to dissuade the vast majority from fare-dodging.

 

[800001]

I was pleased that Revenue Protection were on a GWR express out of London Paddington this afternoon. I haven’t noticed them on one of my trains for quite a while (though I may have overlooked their presence at some point).

I was less pleased that the Train Manager announced that they were on the train about a minute before the doors locked at Paddington. What possible legitimate purpose does that serve? Please
tell me it’s not some new policy!

I wonder what the Revenue Protection guy himself thought. He didn’t seem to encounter anyone without a ticket before he got to me, but then that’s not altogether surprising.

Was it from ungated platform? As vast majority are gated are they not?

 

[mark-h]

Usually something short and sweet along the lines of "penalty fares are in operation on this route. If you've boarded the train without buying a ticket if facilities are available, or with a ticket that is invalid, a penalty fare may be charged by revenue protection staff".

An announcement like that could be made regardless of whether there are any revenue protection staff onboard. Passengers would still have had fair warning if they are found to be without a ticket.

In areas where penalty fares can be issued on platforms as well as on trains then that should also be mentioned irrespective of the presence of a blockade.

 

[Cdd89]

Either way, allowing a passenger to quietly slip off and buy the correct ticket rather than have an uncomfortable encounter with an RPI is the more customer-friendly approach.

People who are knowingly on the train without a valid ticket are not customers. Making fare evasion easier is certainly not customer-friendly to the majority of genuine customers!

Generic announcements are fine and encouraged (automated on many lines); specific announcements of RPI presence benefits only those who know they are dodging a fare.

 

[Bald Rick]

He didn’t seem to encounter anyone without a ticket before he got to me, but then that’s not altogether surprising.

That makes it sound like you didn’t have a ticket

 

[Edsmith]

I was pleased that Revenue Protection were on a GWR express out of London Paddington this afternoon. I haven’t noticed them on one of my trains for quite a while (though I may have overlooked their presence at some point).

I was less pleased that the Train Manager announced that they were on the train about a minute before the doors locked at Paddington. What possible legitimate purpose does that serve? Please
tell me it’s not some new policy!

I wonder what the Revenue Protection guy himself thought. He didn’t seem to encounter anyone without a ticket before he got to me, but then that’s not altogether surprising.

I've heard these sort of announcements before, those without tickets probably get off again and it makes the revenue staff job a lot easier. And assuming the ticket gates were operating at Paddington isn't it a bit pointless checking tickets again?

 

[Jimini]

I've heard these sort of announcements before, those without tickets probably get off again and it makes the revenue staff job a lot easier. And assuming the ticket gates were operating at Paddington isn't it a bit pointless checking tickets again?

Always a chance is was a service departing from P1 (no barriers there), I guess.

 

[mark-h]

Ticket barriers only check if somebody has a ticket valid from the station which could be to/from the closest/cheapest destination possible from the gateline. This could be a lot cheaper than a ticket to the first ungated station served by the train the announcement was made on.

People deliberately buying short tickets like this are not innocent travellers that need to be reminded to buy the correct tickets.

 

[Towers]

I've heard these sort of announcements before, those without tickets probably get off again and it makes the revenue staff job a lot easier. And assuming the ticket gates were operating at Paddington isn't it a bit pointless checking tickets again?

P1/8/9 ungated, Advance tickets on the wrong train, sat in First on a standard ticket (particularly on 10 car IETs), adult on child ticket, 'tapped in' using contactless to travel to Cornwall; etc etc. There are plenty of reasons to carry out revenue checks regardless of ticket barriers, hence why Guards do revenue duties.

 

[43066]

I was pleased that Revenue Protection were on a GWR express out of London Paddington this afternoon. I haven’t noticed them on one of my trains for quite a while (though I may have overlooked their presence at some point).

I was less pleased that the Train Manager announced that they were on the train about a minute before the doors locked at Paddington. What possible legitimate purpose does that serve? Please
tell me it’s not some new policy!

I wonder what the Revenue Protection guy himself thought. He didn’t seem to encounter anyone without a ticket before he got to me, but then that’s not altogether surprising.

Seems sensible to me. Fare dodgers (at least the less brazen ones) are likely to be inconvenienced by having to go and buy a ticket and missing their intended train. I really don’t understand the objection to this!

 

[zero]

This summer I was on a Northern service in the evening where the guard announced "I won't be checking tickets tonight" before we departed the origin station. All stations on the route are unbarriered, I think, though penalty fares applied and typically there would be people buying on board (if it had been in the morning/afternoon).

 

[londonbridge]

I used to commute Kingston-Clapham-Croydon, there would be regular announcements about ticket checks and RPIs on the SWR leg but I was never checked once in the 18 months I did the journey.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I was pleased that Revenue Protection were on a GWR express out of London Paddington this afternoon. I haven’t noticed them on one of my trains for quite a while (though I may have overlooked their presence at some point).

I was less pleased that the Train Manager announced that they were on the train about a minute before the doors locked at Paddington. What possible legitimate purpose does that serve? Please
tell me it’s not some new policy!

I wonder what the Revenue Protection guy himself thought. He didn’t seem to encounter anyone without a ticket before he got to me, but then that’s not altogether surprising.

It seems to me that you’re disappointed because you want people to get fines, which although not wrong isn’t exactly pleasant. I mean, fare evasion is wrong, but openly expressing intent to see people be fined is a little… well, let’s just say it screams of that kid in primary school that would remind the teacher to check homework.

 

[Mag_seven]

No different to train managers announcing prior to departure that if you have an advanced purchase ticket then it must be for the train in question and if it isn't you must either leave the train or remain on the train and purchase a brand new ticket.