(Another) proposal for universal PAYG across the country and whether it is possible/a good idea

[Bletchleyite]

Oh absolutely, it's not impossible. But whatever value you set it at, it will put revenue at risk and/or charge people an extortionate penalty for forgetting to touch out. When the maximum single across your area of validity is in the low double figures, that's annoying but not the end of the world. When it's £267, that's a problem.

The thing is, it's not, when you look at typical travel patterns. Most people make a return journey, so you'd "get" them when touching back in again at somewhere they'd allegedly not been to.

"Big data" is easy to analyse to find the sort of patterns of misuse that you would want to pursue for prosecution. A small penalty and the inconvenience of having your card blocked will deal with everything else.

As I said, this discussion is almost exactly the same as the one I had on here a long time ago when I proposed a not-100%-secure e-ticket system that was near enough identical to (indeed, slightly more secure than) the one the railway actually went with.

It doesn't have to be 100% secure, or indeed anywhere near it, just as Merseyrail basically choose to foresake some revenue by not gating intermediate stations because it costs more than collecting it, or supermarkets accept a level of wasteage. It just has to save money over the status quo. As a TVM is twenty grand a pop plus the cost of maintaining it, if takeup is good it will save them a fortune even if someone does do the payment card version of hiding in the bog for a London to Manchester trip once in a while.

Remember also that unlike the Tube, the railway has on-board revenue protection, so failure to touch in is easily policeable, and if you have a "check" tap on the guard's machine approaching Stafford it's clear you've gone somewhere even if you don't touch out at Piccadilly and get a lift home off your mate, so you know something dodgy is going on.

 

[Watershed]

failure to touch in is easily policeable

Not really. That's a big part of the problem. You can't rely on the touch in data downloading to inspection devices by the point that an inspection takes place, given that there are a lot of stretches of line without any (usable) mobile data signal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not really. That's a big part of the problem. You can't rely on the touch in data downloading to inspection devices by the point that an inspection takes place, given that there are a lot of stretches of line without any (usable) mobile data signal.

You don't need to. it's all about "big data" and retrospective analysis. You have huge potential to work out what went on after the event, and to block cards from future use and to amass excellent quality evidence for prosecution of repeat offenders (or just penalise and block the card).

As I said, this is exactly the flawed argument people made against the e-ticket implementation that actually happened.