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Another Spanish manufacturer wishes to enter UK rolling stock market

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pemma

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RAIL said:
Spanish train manufacturer Talgo plans to build a factory in the UK, and recruit locally should it win train orders for this country.

Speaking exclusively to RAIL in London on September 13, Talgo’s President Carlos Palacio Oriol said the company was looking to use its expertise to bid for a number of tenders in the country.

“If we win a deal, we will start work on a factory the next day. We need a big order, otherwise it makes no sense, but we are fully committed to the UK ,” he said.

“We mainly specialise in high speed and very high-speed trains, but are interested in and have developed products for other markets too.

Oriol explained that by “big order”, he meant even half of some of the deals that had been signed already by other manufacturers.

Oriol believes that trains for HS2 must be built in the UK, and that Talgo would manufacture in this country rather than assemble.

“The pre-series train for any order would be built in Spain, but the rest would be built in the UK. And I mean built, not assembled.”

He added that the UK supply chain must be involved as much as possible: “It is very important that we include the UK in an order. Any industrial investment would create jobs, thousands of jobs.”

So it sounds like they want the HS2 contract but I wonder what they mean by other tenders - maybe something to prove they can build successful trains for the UK market before the HS2 contract gets awarded?

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...company?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 
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Bletchleyite

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Interesting. Do they do stock other than their low-floor passive tilt stock? It isn't compatible with UK platforms nor would it be, as it swings out at the bottom.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Another planet...
One area where competition should be welcomed is in rolling stock manufacture, especially if it brings prices down...

It also leaves egg on the faces of the established ROSCOs who were using legacy BR-era stock as a cash-cow. Just a shame that the excellent 323s might be the first victims!
 

Chester1

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My first thought was that they will only build a factory if they win the first HS2 order. Perhaps they might build a smaller factory with room to expand if they win a very large order for the next East Midlands franchise. They would need to alter their existing designs to fit the UK loading gauge and for non HS2 orders design a bi mode. Hopefully if Bombardier merge with Siemens and Alstom and Stadler build factories then we could have all six train manufacturers supply the UK also based in the UK: Bombardier/Siemens, Hitachi, Alstom (after upgrading their new repair facility in Widness), CAF (at their planned factory near Newport), Stadler and Talgo. Certainly encouraging that Brexit hasn't harmed the prospect for more train manufacturing in the UK.
 

pemma

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Bombardier/Siemens ... Alstom

In case you've missed it Siemens are also in talks with Alstom over a merger, so they might not be merging with Bombardier after all.

Certainly encouraging that Brexit hasn't harmed the prospect for more train manufacturing in the UK.

Stadler aren't based in the EU anyway, while it seems to have been confirmed that we will remain the single market until at least 2021 which a number of businesses will probably welcome.
 
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Mikey C

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A bit weird that "the big 3" of Bombardier, Siemens and Alstom are fighting to marry each other, while the Spanish manufacturers seem to be outside these merger talks and both expanding into the UK
 

Bertie the bus

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I think Mr Oriol needs to brush up on his English:

“If we win a deal, we will start work on a factory the next day. We need a big order, otherwise it makes no sense, but we are fully committed to the UK ,” he said.

Isn't being fully committed to the UK.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Interesting. Do they do stock other than their low-floor passive tilt stock? It isn't compatible with UK platforms nor would it be, as it swings out at the bottom.

Their main current high-speed offering is the Renfe S102/112, 14 vehicles of 200m total length so about 15m each, max speed 330km/h.
I guess these are articulated, much like TGVs.
These don't tilt, but the S-130/730 do, and they also have dual-gauge capability and max speed 250km/h.

Talgo manufactures the vehicles, but Bombardier provides the power cars.
In Spain, Talgo seems to work with Bombardier for electrics, and CAF with Alstom.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/renfe-unveils-class-112-high-speed-train.html
 

Dumpton Park

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Their main current high-speed offering is the Renfe S102/112, 14 vehicles of 200m total length so about 15m each, max speed 330km/h.
I guess these are articulated, much like TGVs.
These don't tilt, but the S-130/730 do, and they also have dual-gauge capability and max speed 250km/h.

Talgo manufactures the vehicles, but Bombardier provides the power cars.
In Spain, Talgo seems to work with Bombardier for electrics, and CAF with Alstom.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/renfe-unveils-class-112-high-speed-train.html

They're not really articulated, as such with shared bogies, but instead have slightly less than four wheels per body across a train set. Each body rests on two wheels on their own axles, which must help with the very quick gauge change (about 5 mins to put the whole train through the apparatus, which they do with passengers aboard all over Spain). They do feel fairly flimsy, I must say, compared to TGV and ICE Ave trainsets, although are very, very well appointed inside. Approx 40 seats per carriage is the norm.

The 730 is the bimode version with the very odd single-bogied diesel power packs attached to the talgo cars by what looks like balance.

DP
 
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WatcherZero

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Besides HS2 Talgo may also be interested in possible West Coast fleet renewal.

Stadler are based in Switzerland which is part of the Single Market and its also signed up to the bulk of EU laws relevantly over transportation, free movement of workers and public procurement.
 

Bletchleyite

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Switzerland is not fully part of the single market - in particular it is not part of the customs union and does not follow all the freedom of movement aspects.
 

Olaf

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A bit weird that "the big 3" of Bombardier, Siemens and Alstom are fighting to marry each other, while the Spanish manufacturers seem to be outside these merger talks and both expanding into the UK

The Spanish businesses benefit from the lower production costs with being based in Spain as opposed to Germany or France.
 

DenmarkRail

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Bombardier / Siemans aren't going to be in direct competition with these guys, assuming they only want HS orders...
 

NotATrainspott

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Obviously it's good that another manufacturer is showing interest in the UK market, but Talgo is for all intents and purposes a one-trick-pony manufacturer. They have one basic design that they have used for all of their trains, but that basic design really doesn't seem suited to any current or future UK application. One thing the design can do really, really well is handling a break of gauge. That's useful in Iberia and Central/Eastern Europe, but not so much here, where it's loading gauge which is the meaningful restriction on trains. Here, the passenger saloon has to be above platform level as there's not enough width below it. That means there's a big chunk of dead space below, which you may as well fill with a standard bogie, especially when there's never a need to have the complexity of gauge changing axles. Ironically, HS2 won't even change this. It has now been agreed that the captive platforms will be 1155mm above rail level, even higher than classic ones. With the plan to use single deck stock for captive services, there would be no benefit in having the train floor lower down than the platform level, and so you may as well use standard high-speed bogies.

Of course, Talgo could come out with a totally different product. But, it would have to be so different to what they've done before, that I very much doubt they could ever be the cheapest and best supplier for them. If you want a standard configuration high speed set, why go with a company which has never made one before in its history, over the various companies which have made hundreds of units for rail networks around the world?
 

JaJaWa

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There’s now an official announcement here: https://www.talgo.com/en/communicat...-for-the-uk-scouts-plant-locations-in-northe/

17 OCT 2017
Talgo unveils localisation plan for the UK, scouts plant locations in Northern England
The company has already visited potential places around Leeds and Liverpool



Spanish train manufacturer Talgo is set to gain a foothold in the United Kingdom rail market and has devised a detailed long-term industrial plan which includes the construction of a plant in the UK and the creation a fully localized supply chain. The plan was publicized last week by its president Carlos Palacio during several industry meetings and is part of a bigger-scale strategy to offer a full spectrum of rail solutions in the British Isles, ranging from the supply of high-speed rolling stock to full vehicle overhaul services.

Talgo has repeatedly showed its intention to carry out the whole train construction process in the new plant. To find the perfect spot in case it gets awarded supply contracts now being tendered, the company is analysing a dozen locations in the UK and has already engaged in formal contacts with local authorities and key interest groups from the districts concerned, as well as with MPs elected in those very same zones which could be interested to host the plant.

The Spain-based company expects the new facility to create hundreds of highly-skilled jobs and to spur the development of local talent which could then be used not only to supply the UK and Irish rail markets with latest-generation trains but also to enforce Talgo’s global operations by tapping the renowned British components industry.

Talgo sees the UK market with its increasingly challenging demand for more capacity and a passenger-focused rail offering as a level playing field in which its vehicles could take a crucial role, as the company’s current portfolio includes not only world-class very high-speed trains but also regional and commuter vehicles ready to maximize train operating companies profit and to minimize subsidies from taxpayers.

Talgo has also an extensive experience manufacturing interoperable trains with its bi-mode vehicle range capable of making the most of the newest track sections while delaying or even avoiding costly electrification programmes, and its trains are operated daily in countries like the USA, Canada, Russia and Germany.
 

Mikey C

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Chris Grayling will approve...

Talgo has also an extensive experience manufacturing interoperable trains with its bi-mode vehicle range capable of making the most of the newest track sections while delaying or even avoiding costly electrification programmes, and its trains are operated daily in countries like the USA, Canada, Russia and Germany.
 
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