Antisocial behaviour on trains

[jon0844]

Personally, I would add... 'or else a cattle prod may be deployed against you', but I realise that might be taking it a bit far.

Erm, yes, that does seem like somewhat of an overreaction.

...A Taser should be fine.

 

[alastair]

Listening to stuff on public transport without earphones should be illegal. Life imprisonment.

It's against Railway Byelaws : https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/1058/railway-byelaws.pdf
RAILWAY BYELAWS Made under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority (the “Authority”) and confirmed under Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Secretary of State for Transport on 22 June 2005 for regulating the use and working of, and travel on or by means of, railway assets, the maintenance of order on railway assets and the conduct of all persons while on railway assets (the “Byelaws”).

7. Music, sound, advertising and carrying on a trade (1) Except with written permission from an Operator no person on the railway shall, to the annoyance of any person: (i) sing; or (ii) use any instrument, article or equipment for the production or reproduction of sound.

Life imprisonment though, work in progress!

 

[PeterY]

Listening to stuff on public transport without earphones should be illegal. Life imprisonment.

I have to agree you XIX7007177. It should be a hefty fine. Traveling by public transport is becoming intolerable.

 

[Bishopstone]

This has become so prevalent I've just bought a pair of noise cancelling earbuds, although using them is not without risk as you need all of your senses alert on public transport, ideally.

It's an issue that warrants an educational campaign followed in short order by a clampdown, but the Government/DfT/TOCs are too dim-witted to arrange the former, and the media too hysterical to make the latter a palatable proposition, reputationally. ('Disabled girl, 14, reduced to tears by BTP in TikTok ban clampdown' etc)

 

[185143]

This would definitely overpower the sound of a crap tik tok

I played similar in the 1st class compartment on a 350 last year. The one other occupant was sat playing loud music out of his phone and I was absolutely knackered.

Figured such was acceptable so did it to make a point. He soon took the hint, switched his racket off so I reciprocated and fell asleep shortly after.

Not a tactic I'd suggest routinely using of course as to an extent it makes you just as bad!

 

[Deepgreen]

This has become so prevalent I've just bought a pair of noise cancelling earbuds, although using them is not without risk as you need all of your senses alert on public transport, ideally.

It's an issue that warrants an educational campaign followed in short order by a clampdown, but the Government/DfT/TOCs are too dim-witted to arrange the former, and the media too hysterical to make the latter a palatable proposition, reputationally. ('Disabled girl, 14, reduced to tears by BTP in TikTok ban clampdown' etc)

I choose to wear them because I can also blot out the barrage of stupid, useless and infuriating recorded (or live!) announcements. I will know when something happens that I need to be able to hear about. The standard of behaviour in society continues to decline, and it was inevitable as more and more personal responsibility is removed. It will continue, and probably accelerate.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Very recently (on an XC HST ) another passenger had some foot ball match commentary playing very loudly on his radio. Another passenger suggested it would be a good idea if he used his headphones; he followed that instruction. Unfortunately, and under the very mistaken belief that other passengers were interested in the progress of the match, he gave us frequent updates. But, because he had his headphones on, when he spoke IT WAS VERY LOUD. So not much was achieved.
I'm also puzzled why people having an argument on the phone, or dishing out orders to some minion back at the office, do so on loudspeaker. Perhaps they think that, if everybody hears both sides of the argument, it will support their case?

I choose to wear them because I can also blot out the barrage of stupid, useless and infuriating recorded (or live!) announcements. I will know when something happens that I need to be able to hear about. The standard of behaviour in society continues to decline, and it was inevitable as more and more personal responsibility is removed. It will continue, and probably accelerate.

You might experience a problem with that. I turned up at New St for the 16.03 Glasgow via Leeds recently. Because of flooding, the train from Plymouth was unable to travel further than Cheltenham but XC cleverly reduced delays to passengers to the minimum by turning back that train onto the times of the next train back towards Plymouth, and that train (from the North) was turned back at New Street to form the 16.03 departure from New St. Although I was far from the first to board the train with hindsight I should have been puzzled by how many people were already sitting down using phones or wearing headsets. When the steward came through to check tickets she had to explain to a large proportion of the passengers that they were now heading back North. Luckily, it stopped at Tamworth but they all lost even more time on their journey to the West which they might have avoided if they'd listened to (or been able to hear) announcements.

 

[Monty]

The barging on before everyone has got off seems to be a common problem in London (elizabeth line) aswell atleast from my experience being there last week.

Not only have I had passengers barge past me at my local door to board the train before I've even released the rest of the trains doors I've had people physically push me off the train when they are trying to alight.

Antisocial behaviour has always been a problem on the railway for as long as I can remember but in my experiences it's just gotten worse and worse since the pandemic. It's almost as if some people have forgotten to act, and the age demographic is almost as wide as the types of the behaviour. From people in the middle fifties being drunk, loud and obnoxious to 11 years abusing staff and passengers and going equipped with knives (I am not making this up!)

BTP are under-resourced and simply are unable to effectively deal with it, it is a literal free for all. It's telling in society where customer facing roles be it on the railway or working in Tesco are now being equipped with body worn cameras.

 

[bramling]

Not only have I had passengers barge past me at my local door to board the train before I've even released the rest of the trains door's I've had people physically push me off the train when they are trying to alight. Antisocial behaviour has always been a problem on the railway for as long as I can remember but in my experiences it's just gotten worse and worse since the pandemic. It's almost as if some people have forgotten to act, and the age demographic is almost as wide as the types of the behaviour. From people in the middle fifties being drunk, loud and obnoxious to 11 years abusing staff and passengers and going equipped with knives (I am not making this up!)

BTP are under resourced and simply are unable to effectively deal with it, it is a literal free for all. It's telling in society where customer facing roles be it on the railway or working in Tesco are now being equipped with body worn cameras.

Yes in my experience the 50-65 age range can actually be just as bad as anyone else if not worse. Which isn’t necessarily against expectations, as it seems to be the baby boom generation that started the rot, and in many cases will have simply passed their behaviours on.

 

[Monty]

I remember teenage pregnancies being a hot topic in the early 2000s so I do wonder with the kids we are now dealing with is a generation of children being raised by children.

 

[AlterEgo]

I remember teenage pregnancies being a hot topic in the early 2000s so I do wonder with the kids we are now dealing with is a generation of children being raised by children.

I think you’re overestimating how many children actually had babies in the early 2000s.

 

[Monty]

I think you’re overestimating how many children actually had babies in the early 2000s.

Depends on what part of the country you live in, Where I live there is abject poverty and there were very high teenage pregnancy rates from around 2005 to 2011. I'm not saying it's the only factor but I don't think it can be discounted especially if negative behaviour is passed on when the children mingle with others.

 

[Thirteen]

Headphones aren't even that expensive so why people insist on playing their music or content on speaker is beyond me.

My gripe is people who are clearly old enough to know better who think it's fun to swing on the handstraps, I don't like it when kids do it because you can seriously hurt if the train comes to a sudden stop although there is a side of me that kind of hopes they do hurt themselves so they don't do it again.

 

[Alanko]

Fairly recently I challenged a man on a service, who was repeatedly playing the same 10-second clip of bangra music out-loud for 30-minutes constantly.

I experienced the same thing on an Edinburgh bus recently. Seemingly South Asian TikTok uses the same two or three snippets of music for every video. All the same tempo and rhythm as well.

The girl watching these clips was quite traditionally and modestly dressed, and looked like she didn't get out the house very much. Made it baffling that she didn't mind creating the sonic equivalent of the torture method from The Ipcress File on the bus.

 

[trainophile]

I don't know about headphones, but earphones/buds/pods are quite expensive if you want the cordless ones, and the type of person who inflicts their out loud racket on others probably thinks it's distinctly uncool to have wires dangling down their face these days.

As regards the comment about children raising children, when Gordon Brown was Chancellor in the late 1990s he was throwing money at people to have as many children as they could, with flats and benefits thrown in and no need to work. There was a spate of very young women having children, often not even knowing who the father was. Those children are now in their 20s, and quite possibly grew up without much meaningful parental guidance.

 

[Terminator]

This thread pretty much sums up why I rarely use public transport for leisure purposes any more, despite having access to some incredibly cheap/free fares. Sometimes you'll have a good journey, but more often than not it's just a miserable experience.

For commuting I couldn't live without my noise cancelling earphones, but even they're no match for the racket some people make. Witness feet on seats, even from "respectable" looking folk, on virtually every journey I make.

Unless there's a major step-change in societal attitudes or adequate resources to tackle things properly, it isn't going to change any time soon sadly.

 

[AlterEgo]

Depends on what part of the country you live in, Where I live there is abject poverty and there were very high teenage pregnancy rates from around 2005 to 2011. I'm not saying it's the only factor but I don't think it can be discounted especially if negative behaviour is passed on when the children mingle with others.

Births to English children have never been above 1.7% since 1997, so even accounting for regional differences there is no way there is a "generation of children brought up by children". In fact, the age of mothers has been steadily increasing.

In my experience the antisocial activity of listening to phones without headphones crosses generations and not the preserve of young people (who actually are, in my experience, more likely to own a set of headphones!).

 

[dgl]

I suppose for some older people it doesn't matter if they wear headphones or not, it's still going to be loud.
I had a loop system attached to my Grans TV so she could listen to the TV directly through her hearing aids rather than indirectly with the TV turned up loud, that didn't mean you couldn't still hear the TV easily from the volume coming out of the hearing aids!

 

[Andy317345]

I've seen people on trains making obnoxiously loud phone calls for what seems like hours. The tiktok videos blaring from phones really annoys me.

 

[Russel]

I've noticed antisocial behaviour becoming more prevalent after about 5pm on a Saturday evening, especially on the XC network, if it's not stag and hen parties going out for the night that have already had a skin full, it's football fans, none of whom seem to be able to handle more than one can of Carling before turning into animals...

 

[12C]

I've noticed antisocial behaviour becoming more prevalent after about 5pm on a Saturday evening, especially on the XC network, if it's not stag and hen parties going out for the night that have already had a skin full, it's football fans, none of whom seem to be able to handle more than one can of Carling before turning into animals...

To be fair Saturday evening trains have been hell for decades, especially football hooligans who are quite tame nowadays compared to the antics of the late 60s-early 90s.

But at least then generally you could travel by train midweek and usually expect a fairly quiet and peaceful journey. Now it seems that’s more the exception, whatever day of the week you travel.

 

[azOOOOOma]

This sort of thing is only going to get worse. As my mollycoddled generation’s kids are now hitting their late teens/early twenties, generation ME will ensure an unpleasant journey for all. I remember years ago as cabin crew young kids would listen to portable DVD players (yes, it was really a long time ago!) full blast with no earphones. Those kids are now young adults, having been told and taught that nothing and nobody matters apart from them. Rolling your eyes is a ‘micro aggression’, asking them to turn music down is ‘literally violence’.

God help us all.

Laura x

 

[Peter0124]

I don't know about headphones, but earphones/buds/pods are quite expensive if you want the cordless ones, and the type of person who inflicts their out loud racket on others probably thinks it's distinctly uncool to have wires dangling down their face these days.

A pair of Soundpeats Q35 are around 20 to 30 quid, high quality and are bluetooth. The tiny wire connects the two earbuds and can comfortably wrap around you.

There really is no excuse for the playing out loud of music/tiktoks. It is quite literally a 'Breach of the Peace'

 

[Deepgreen]

Very recently (on an XC HST ) another passenger had some foot ball match commentary playing very loudly on his radio. Another passenger suggested it would be a good idea if he used his headphones; he followed that instruction. Unfortunately, and under the very mistaken belief that other passengers were interested in the progress of the match, he gave us frequent updates. But, because he had his headphones on, when he spoke IT WAS VERY LOUD. So not much was achieved.
I'm also puzzled why people having an argument on the phone, or dishing out orders to some minion back at the office, do so on loudspeaker. Perhaps they think that, if everybody hears both sides of the argument, it will support their case?



You might experience a problem with that. I turned up at New St for the 16.03 Glasgow via Leeds recently. Because of flooding, the train from Plymouth was unable to travel further than Cheltenham but XC cleverly reduced delays to passengers to the minimum by turning back that train onto the times of the next train back towards Plymouth, and that train (from the North) was turned back at New Street to form the 16.03 departure from New St. Although I was far from the first to board the train with hindsight I should have been puzzled by how many people were already sitting down using phones or wearing headsets. When the steward came through to check tickets she had to explain to a large proportion of the passengers that they were now heading back North. Luckily, it stopped at Tamworth but they all lost even more time on their journey to the West which they might have avoided if they'd listened to (or been able to hear) announcements.

Indeed and your example is the sort of situation that I would notice and take steps to ensure I availed myself of the information required. Even with ear buds in I think I'm still hugely more aware of my surroundings than so many appear to be these days. Nothing's foolproof of course, but I haven't been caught out yet...

A pair of Soundpeats Q35 are around 20 to 30 quid, high quality and are bluetooth. The tiny wire connects the two earbuds and can comfortably wrap around you.

There really is no excuse for the playing out loud of music/tiktoks.

It's often done as a form of territorialism - i.e. I will do what I like because I am in control of this environment - childish.

 

[vlad]

When there’s members of staff travelling pass in uniform watching their mobile phones with with no earphones in just shows how little awareness people really have.

Staff on duty do it as well - I'm deliberately saying any more than that!

I'd say anti-social behaviour has been going on for years. Certainly people have been having loud (and seemingly endless) phone conversations for as long as I can remember.

 

[bramling]

It's often done as a form of territorialism - i.e. I will do what I like because I am in control of this environment - childish.

This did lead to some amusement when I was on the Tyne & Wear Metro last week.

The trip was terminated short at Bede due to late running, which actually suited me as that's where I happened to be heading. The driver made numerous announcements that the train would be terminating at Bede, and "anyone for South Shields should alight at Jarrow and wait for the next train". As one would expect for a weekend, the train was full of gobby overgrown teenagers. Hardly any alighted at Jarrow, of the remainder it was a split between (1) those who got off at Bede and found themselves having to cross over via the road bridge, by which time the next South Shields service had already passed through, (2) another load who waited on the inbound platform at Bede wondering what was going on, and best of all (3) a good proportion who remained on board and ended up heading back towards Newcastle. I smiled at the driver who clearly wasn't going to say anything to any of them, having already made numerous perfectly good PA announcements. One dreads to think how some of these people could cope in an emergency situation.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I experienced a family having a very loud (and very banal and repetitive) conversation at one end of a coach on the Watercress Line that was irritatingly audible at the other end where I was sitting. I mentioned this to someone and he had what was probably the answer; some families have so much background noise in their homes from various devices that they get into the habit of shouting at each other to be heard, and carry the habit into public spaces Sounds plausible.

 

[londonbridge]

It's against Railway Byelaws

So is boarding a train before all those alighting have done so, I believe.

 

[stuu]

WMR and LNWR solve the issue by not allowing YouTube/ other media streaming services on there onboard WiFi.

But when you can get unlimited data for £20 WiFi is pretty much redundant

 

[weepingwillowb]

I think some people have become so accustomed to playing music and having phone conversations on their devices in public, that they're no longer aware of others around them. Perhaps the thing I get most fed up with is "Hello, can you hear me? . . . Can you hear me? . . . Can you hear me?" and I've begun to to say out loud, "Yes." At least it might make them aware that what they think is a private call is actually a very public one, not that it ever seems to make them stop.

Any phone call made on public transport isn't private, unless it's in a toilet.