Any future refurbishment of the Class 395 Javelins?

[Metal_gee_man]

I write this fearfully because if the interiors hold up as badly as this in under 10 years in service there's no hope for the 800/801/802s about to or already entered into service!

This is the state of one of the ironing boards that Hitachi installed on a 395 but this is pretty the standard condition of all them



They really aren't comfortable any longer, if the journeys were any longer from Kent I'd be worried about getting farmers!

 

[jon0844]

It shouldn't be too hard to keep a modern train clean. Change the seat covers every 5-10 years (and use materials that are designed to last, not look worn after 5 minutes) and give the wall panels and flooring a deep clean at regular intervals so the grime can't build up in the first place.

I do wonder what the 700s will be like in 10 years, as they've got a very open plan design and an easy to access/clean floor. In theory they should remain spotless for decades.

Anyone want to bet what the reality will be?!

 

[Railperf]

I was aboard a 395 the other day, and i was also thinking the interior was looking tired - and also a bit bland. But it was only an 8 minute journey from St Pancras to Stratford where I alighted - and i did manage to get a seat - so i cannot complain. It beat suffocating and most likely standing on the Tube, that's for sure. And well worth the premium!

 

[superalbs]

They are not ironing boards, they are Grammer seats, and they do not look like any ironing board I have seen.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

They are not ironing boards, they are Grammer seats, and they do not look like any ironing board I have seen.

Let's put it into perspective, the seats weren't the most padded in the first place, they were pretty hard from the get go, similar to the seats in the IETs, nearly 9 years of bums have compacted the foam and now they are bloody hard, add in the wear they've got on them a re-cover re-foam is a must! In other words they have about as much foam in them now as an ironing board cover!

But as Hitachi have been sending the IETs to Italy for Upholstering the seats and interiors they could be a much higher wearing material?

 

[MatthewRead]

I went on one 2 years ago and did a dusty seat test and it was fine they aren't like the astro seats you get on some Electrostars you should see the state of GWR's ones!

 

[Mikey C]

I imagine the 395s are used very intensively, so that any proper refurbishment programme would result in stock shortages.

Maybe more stock for HS1 will arrive in the next franchise, giving the necessary slack to do this work

 

[Clip]

Must be a poor design if they cant just clip them out and clip in a new one - with the right amount of staff on the job you could probably do a train a night and not have to have any stock shortages

 

[ooo]

Let's put it into perspective, the seats weren't the most padded in the first place, they were pretty hard from the get go, similar to the seats in the IETs

When travelling on them in the last few weeks they have seemed very comfortable and quite soft. Not at all similar to iet seats

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are not ironing boards, they are Grammer seats, and they do not look like any ironing board I have seen.

They did get the nickname of "tombstones" when first installed, but have proven quite popular since and seem to have lost that to some extent.

I don't agree they are hard, either new or after a while, compared with other modern seats (say the likes of the Chapman seat), and unlike the Class 800 seat you can't feel the cross-support through them at least. They aren't an IC70 (original BR HST seat), but then those have horrid fixed armrests and are quite unsupportive and I really dislike them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Must be a poor design if they cant just clip them out and clip in a new one - with the right amount of staff on the job you could probably do a train a night and not have to have any stock shortages

I bet they can. It keeps being said that the contract precludes it for the 800s, but as long as they store the removed ones to return them later I doubt it does. I've never rented a flat or room (student halls aside, but they tend to be quite picky over contracts e.g. because of fire safety) in which I couldn't put my own furniture as long as I kept the landlord's original furniture safe, for example. And of course that contract doesn't apply to the 395.

(Sorry, all this talk of seats made me think it was a Class 800 thread! )

 

[Bletchleyite]

I write this fearfully because if the interiors hold up as badly as this in under 10 years in service there's no hope for the 800/801/802s about to or already entered into service!

This is the state of one of the ironing boards that Hitachi installed on a 395 but this is pretty the standard condition of all them

View attachment 55081 View attachment 55082

They really aren't comfortable any longer, if the journeys were any longer from Kent I'd be worried about getting farmers!

The 350/1s are in a similar state. They just need new covers. Like the 350, the rest of the 395 interior is of good quality and is not particularly worn.

 

[Clip]

I bet they can. It keeps being said that the contract precludes it for the 800s, but as long as they store the removed ones to return them later I doubt it does. I've never rented a flat or room (student halls aside, but they tend to be quite picky over contracts e.g. because of fire safety) in which I couldn't put my own furniture as long as I kept the landlord's original furniture safe, for example. And of course that contract doesn't apply to the 395.

(Sorry, all this talk of seats made me think it was a Class 800 thread! )

You just need lots of extra seat squabs not whole seats and you could do a nice rolling refreshment programme without impacting service

 

[Mollman]

There at the same stage as the 185s were a few years back - crying out for at least a deep clean but nothing would get done until the TransPennine franchise was awarded. Now they do look as good as new (unlike Northern's refurbs) so there is hope.

 

[Ethano92]

When travelling on them in the last few weeks they have seemed very comfortable and quite soft. Not at all similar to iet seats

Agreed, I travelled on one from Ramsgate to st Pancras via Folkestone over summer. 1 hour 40, really comfortable journey, seats were very padded, especially compared to the 700 I took from st Pancras to wimbledon.

I guess this is a good example of just how subjective comfort is, I find grammer seats very comfortable and I'd have preferred those seats on the IETs

I'd say they have a similar colour scheme to the 700s but the 700s veer towards clinical and the 395s veer towards cold. Still, I think lighting is great, seats are fine. The windows arent that big but I don't mind. Overall, id say the units are quite similar to the unrefurbished overground 378s in that seats are a little silvered and there are scuffs here and there but a refresh isn't needed for another few years in my opinion.

 

[ooo]

Is there a reason the doors take so long to open after the button has been pressed

 

[Mikey C]

Is there a reason the doors take so long to open after the button has been pressed

Something to with the special seal Hitachi doors have on their high speed trains I think

 

[hooverboy]

I was aboard a 395 the other day, and i was also thinking the interior was looking tired - and also a bit bland. But it was only an 8 minute journey from St Pancras to Stratford where I alighted - and i did manage to get a seat - so i cannot complain. It beat suffocating and most likely standing on the Tube, that's for sure. And well worth the premium!

in all honesty they have been exceptionally good trains

 

[Doomotron]

Is there a reason the doors take so long to open after the button has been pressed

Something to with the special seal Hitachi doors have on their high speed trains I think

It's the doors 'opening'. By which I mean going from their very closed 'airtight' state to open. Class 180s do it under a certain speed but these trains do it when the doors are unlocked by the driver or guard. Not a good design but can easily be fixed.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Comfort is subjective I agree, however there are many more comfortable seats available on other fleets the 375 Electrostars are amazingly comfortable, the seats on an HST are as well, but admittedly the seats on say a 377 or a 700 are abysmal in comparison to the 395s seats!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Comfort is subjective I agree, however there are many more comfortable seats available on other fleets the 375 Electrostars are amazingly comfortable, the seats on an HST are as well, but admittedly the seats on say a 377 or a 700 are abysmal in comparison to the 395s seats!

Most 377s have the same seats as 375s. It is only the dash 6s and 7s which have the 700-style seats.

 

[Doomotron]

Most 377s have the same seats as 375s. It is only the dash 6s and 7s which have the 700-style seats.

Ah yes, they look the same but are in fact very different. The ones used in the 375/3, /6 and probably /7 are hugely more comfortable than the ones in most 377s and the ones in the /8 are, despite being worse compared to the rest of the fleet (bar the /9s), are more comfortable. The 377s that have the /3-style seats are the early /1s.

 

[317 forever]

As the next South Eastern franchise should commence later this year, maybe a condition of the award will be refurbishment of these units.

 

[hooverboy]

When travelling on them in the last few weeks they have seemed very comfortable and quite soft. Not at all similar to iet seats

if you have just come off a GTR 700 I can understand the relief your "farmers" feel!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Not a problem with me. Would rather sit on a tired seat for an hour on the Javelin rather than sit in a grubby 375 for the same journey that takes the best part of 2 hours...….

 

[47271]

The interiors of 395s probably could do with a freshen up, but anyone who thinks that their seats are a cause for immediate concern needs to get out more and see what else is available on the network.